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Interaction with Catholic Friend


Canada27

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Hi,

 

I'm unsure exactly what I want out of this post, maybe some of your advice.  

 

I had an interaction over text with a friend (not a close friend, but not a stranger) over homosexuality last Sunday.  It has been bothering me ever since, and I feel stuck in my desire to argue with him and tell him how stupid I think his beliefs are.  I know it's not good...it's just an urge I feel :)  He was telling me that homosexual acts are wrong because they don't generate life, even though being gay in itself is not wrong.  I responded by saying it makes no sense that a loving God (which I don't believe in) would create gay people, and then turn around and say, by the way, don't act on how I made you.  He told me I need to pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance and ended by saying God Bless You.  He wanted to hang out in the near future and play some board games, but instead I blocked his number.  I feel kind of like a douche for doing that, but I also think how can I respect and be a friend with someone who thinks there's something fundamentally wrong with me.  

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Here’s how I see it: we should be able to be friends with people we fundamentally disagree with, as long as we don’t break my First Commandment: Thou Shalt Not be a Dick.  In fact I think life is richer when we have friends with whom we respectfully disagree on politics, religion, whatever.   Unfortunately in the world of 2020, it’s all too common to block, unfriend or otherwise shun.  
 

I am an atheist and I have Christian friends.  If a Christian friend thinks I am going to Hell because I have rejected his god, I can live with that, as long as he doesn’t badger me about it or try to convert me.  Likewise he should expect that I not try to talk him out of his faith.  We can be friends by agreeing to disagree.  I expect him to respect my unbelief, but I wouldn’t expect him to say it’s OK to be an atheist.  Likewise if I joined a Swingers’ group I wouldn’t expect him to say it was cool, nor would I expect him to hound me about it.  I don’t think being friends requires validating each other’s lifestyle or beliefs. 
 

So maybe you and your friend can agree to disagree about sexual morality, and be respectful of each other in the process?

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Thanks for your input.  You have a good point.  He doesn't have much interest in chatting about things non-Catholic, but I could give it a shot and see what happens.  

 

Do you have friends who honestly think you're going to hell?  If so, do you just avoid that topic and focus on non-religious interests you share?

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Does this friend realize that there are also plenty of heterosexual activities that also will not lead to procreation?  And does he also believe they are equally sinful?

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13 minutes ago, Canada27 said:

Do you have friends who honestly think you're going to hell? 


Most of my Christian friends don’t know that I no longer believe, and those who do know haven’t offered their thoughts about me and Hell.  And I haven’t asked.  So this was more of a hypothetical situation.  

 

13 minutes ago, Canada27 said:

If so, do you just avoid that topic and focus on non-religious interests you share?


Yes.  I wouldn’t be opposed to talking about the things we disagree about, as long as it’s with an attitude of mutual respect.  

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1 hour ago, TABA said:

Here’s how I see it: we should be able to be friends with people we fundamentally disagree with, as long as we don’t break my First Commandment: Thou Shalt Not be a Dick.  In fact I think life is richer when we have friends with whom we respectfully disagree on politics, religion, whatever.   Unfortunately in the world of 2020, it’s all too common to block, unfriend or otherwise shun.  

 

^ This ^ 

 

On a separate note, where do I ask what happened to the 'like' button?

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5 minutes ago, Krowb said:

 

On a separate note, where do I ask what happened to the 'like' button?

 


You have to be a member for a little while before you get the ‘Like’ button.  The more you post (without breaking the rules), the sooner it happens!

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2 hours ago, Canada27 said:

Hi,

 

I'm unsure exactly what I want out of this post, maybe some of your advice.  

 

I had an interaction over text with a friend (not a close friend, but not a stranger) over homosexuality last Sunday.  It has been bothering me ever since, and I feel stuck in my desire to argue with him and tell him how stupid I think his beliefs are.  I know it's not good...it's just an urge I feel :)  He was telling me that homosexual acts are wrong because they don't generate life, even though being gay in itself is not wrong.  I responded by saying it makes no sense that a loving God (which I don't believe in) would create gay people, and then turn around and say, by the way, don't act on how I made you.  He told me I need to pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance and ended by saying God Bless You.  He wanted to hang out in the near future and play some board games, but instead I blocked his number.  I feel kind of like a douche for doing that, but I also think how can I respect and be a friend with someone who thinks there's something fundamentally wrong with me.  

 

"I prayed to the Holy Spirit and he said gay sex is ok."

 

It's certainly fine to be friends with someone whom you share a mutual interest with. If they are fun to be around, that's great. If, on the other hand their comments about religion or sex or politics or some other topic make your blood boil, then why be their friend?

 

I see a meme going around on social media saying, "We can disagree about stuff and still be friends..." Maybe up to a point, sure. But if you are constantly disagreeing with your friend about this and that, you have to ask yourself if this worthwhile? Is it enjoyable?

 

 

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     Yeah, jerking off doesn't generate life either.  Pretty typical Catholic.

 

     They run into problems when a hetero couple run into problems with procreation.  If one, or even both, of them have issues and therefore cannot conceive.  Should they then ever have sex?  Even that most pure of all sex which we all know is the missionary position?  If it's impossible to conceive should that now be seen as a sinful act?

 

          mwc

 

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3 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

"I prayed to the Holy Spirit and he said gay sex is ok."

Can I borrow this for next time? lol

 

3 hours ago, midniterider said:

I see a meme going around on social media saying, "We can disagree about stuff and still be friends..." Maybe up to a point, sure. But if you are constantly disagreeing with your friend about this and that, you have to ask yourself if this worthwhile? Is it enjoyable?

 

I do find his opinion on homosexuality makes my blood boil.  It feels more intense than just a normal difference of opinion on stuff like politics.  This is a central part of who I am.  I'm leaning towards no as to whether hanging out with him is worthwhile or enjoyable.

 

 

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     On the subject of friendship. That seems like a free for all. Choose or discard friends for whatever reason you see fit. 

On the general subject of living together with people who disagree and insult our core identity. First of all, we all have our sensitive spots. Maybe you eat meat. There are vegan activists who would feel their blood boil every time they saw or heard you talking about a steak. A muslim might feel his blood boil if you make a picture of Mohammed. A mafia boss might kill you for making a joke about his wife, etc. In itself, that anger is not something good or bad from my POV, it just like a biological reaction. That biological reaction tells you nothing about the morality/truthfulness of the claim or the attack.

       Now my journey is to have a sort of detachment from this identifying with these forms so much, like ethnicity, family, etc, as this  excessive atachment is a cause of much suffering.

      About the theological argument . Your argument about a loving God creating gay people is flawed because 1. Your definition of love is not necessarily the specific theological definition of love the person might have and 2 . Most Christians agree that we inherit a fallen state, full of passions, and in that view homosexuality is just a sub section of a subsection of list of the manifestation of the fallen nature of man. Much like greed for cars, and every other thing. So the basic idea of Christianity is that your basic identity is corrupt anyway.

       However the idea that sex is only for procreation is just blatantly counter what Paul said that marriage is for calming lust and that married couples should not stay apart for too long, except for certain periods of fasting and prayer. 

      On the general subject of sexuality I am pretty agnostic right now as I realise have to redo my view on it. One thing I have is to be skeptical about activist discourse, no matter what camp

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On 8/22/2020 at 1:29 AM, Canada27 said:

Can I borrow this for next time? lol

I wouldn't recommend this line if your goal is to find common ground, or even to get your friend to think critically. It could lead to him getting greatly offended and shutting down.

 

On 8/21/2020 at 7:02 PM, Canada27 said:

He was telling me that homosexual acts are wrong because they don't generate life, even though being gay in itself is not wrong.

That's such a strange rationalization. Are the only moral acts those that generate life? Is heterosexual sex between people of childbearing age literally the only activity that isn't wrong? No wonder God is angry!
It reminds me of some debaters I talk to online, who are obsessed with one topic. Every now and then, they come up with a new deep concern that they have, whether it be about balancing budgets, reducing crime, protecting our freedoms, etc. And every time, their conclusion is that we must implement the same pet solution to their pet problem that they suggested last time. Only this time, it's for a completely new reason.
Why will homosexuality be wrong next week? Climate change, perhaps? Or why not the risk of disease transmission, now that we're in the midst of a pandemic? Only time will tell.

 

On 8/21/2020 at 9:02 PM, Canada27 said:

Thanks for your input.  You have a good point.  He doesn't have much interest in chatting about things non-Catholic, but I could give it a shot and see what happens.

If your friend only wants to discuss Catholicism with you, that seems like a pretty limited friendship. It might be nice to have a friend to discuss Catholic matters with, but then again, is this friend even an expert?

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On 8/21/2020 at 1:02 PM, Canada27 said:

I feel kind of like a douche for doing that, but I also think how can I respect and be a friend with someone who thinks there's something fundamentally wrong with me.  

Nah I don't think you were being a douche. I wouldn't want to get together with a condescending, passive aggressive acquaintance for board games. Why would you want to hang out with a person like that? so they can continue to underhandedly insult you? Your response makes total sense to me.

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I would of been more direct and stern in my communication if anyone made my harmless daughter, or her wife out to be "bad" / "less than". 

 

We need to stop extending religious privilege to these folks.  It makes it clear in their mind that harmful ideas, like laws against our harmless LGBT citizens, or beliefs that say it moral to put harmless kind folks into some fantasy external torment world are "acceptable", when they are not.

 

The time has come to more clearly communicated to the indoctrinated that their sick belief are no longer acceptable.

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3 minutes ago, ConsiderTheSource said:

I would of been more direct and stern in my communication if anyone made my harmless daughter, or her wife out to be "bad" / "less than". 

 

We need to stop extending religious privilege to these folks.  It makes it clear in their mind that harmful ideas, like laws against our harmless LGBT citizens, or beliefs that say it moral to put harmless kind folks into some fantasy external torment world are "acceptable", when they are not.

 

The time has come to more clearly communicated to the indoctrinated that their sick belief are no longer acceptable.

Bears repeating.

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On 8/22/2020 at 7:39 AM, Krowb said:

 

^ This ^ 

 

On a separate note, where do I ask what happened to the 'like' button?

 

The like button is still there - bottom right heart shaped icon.

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On 8/21/2020 at 6:48 PM, mwc said:

     Yeah, jerking off doesn't generate life either.  Pretty typical Catholic.

But nobody does that, do they?

I mean, masturbation has never been really commonplace or popular over time, has it?

Whatever would motivate anyone to do such a thing?

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2 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

But nobody does that, do they?

One single ancient man named Onan did it once, and then God immediately killed him for it. Clearly, no one has done it since.

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Apparently that's what happens when you piss-off a supreme being..

Don't give in to the urge then, and maybe he'll lose interest and just go away.

 

Besides, isn't there a shortage of bathroom tissue still?

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11 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

One single ancient man named Onan did it once, and then God immediately killed him for it. Clearly, no one has done it since.

     Onan didn't jerk off.  Onan pulled-out and shot his load on the ground.  God did not approve.  Everyone knows it's beaver, butt, stomach, back, tits, mouth or face (maybe feet if we're heading into fetishes) but never the ground.  God was watching them bang, was probably close to getting off, and Onan pulls that shit?  No!  It ruined the whole scene and god was right for cursing him (1/2 stars.  Would have been zero but the rating system doesn't allow for that -- god).

 

           mwc

 

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I have a catholic friend I know for 40 years. We went to college together, attended my wedding (and also witness my divorce). So rare and endearing is the friendship I can not bear to break it off with him. He is such a Trump supporter (pro life is the primary issue for my friend, he is proud of joining a group who travel around the east coast and display hideous abortion photos in highway). I have no issue with his pro life which I agree.  But his fervent and passion worship of Trump is almost a Jim Jones cult like.  The way I keep the friendship is to avoid anything political. We talked about common favorites like cooking, auto mechanics, getting old advices etc.  I think as long as we respect each other, not to insult or out shout others, and impose our belief on each other, friendship can continue.  But now I do keep a distance, will not initiate any communication.  His devotion to Trump, inside my lizard brain, still bother me.

 

About onan, I need to read up on it.  We studied that long time ago. I assume he pulled out from the woman to avoid pregnancy ?  God did a lot of shit in OT that is outright horrific. Moses committed the most hideous geocide (Numbers 31)  one can imagine. He made Hitler like a girl scout selling cookies.  And not to mentioned God drowned out mankind (save 7 souls) because they were so wicked. 

 

All the answers I got is " it is not for us to understand, God's way is not men's way" 

 

I can not believe I put up with these insanities and atrocities for so many years. 

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8 hours ago, Josh19 said:

 

 

All the answers I got is " it is not for us to understand, God's way is not men's way" 

 

I can not believe I put up with these insanities and atrocities for so many years. 

If it is not for us to understand why in the name of the Lord did they put it in a book which is meant to help us understand God and his ways? I mean that is like putting an unanswered question in a textbook. It kinda defies the purpose.

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On 8/30/2020 at 10:02 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Every sperm is sacred.  

 

 

 

Oh, I've always loved that song! Almost as good as "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life".

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