Christian judgement when you walk away from the church

[alreadyGone]

 

Over the past four years or so as I found myself in discussion with and seeking help from various ministers and lay believers, I began to notice something..

 

Many feel called to help you find your way back into the flock, wanting to help you in the name of the kingdom of God.

And so they begin from an attitude and position of "love" and "grace".

 

When their persuasions fall short though, as they give up in exasperation they will most often (in my experience) turn to some form of subtle hostility and sarcasm, with phrases such as "well.... you seem to have it all figured out".

This, even as I have made it very clear that I am confused and uncertain, that I am seeking the truth without regard to how I or anyone else "feels" about it.

 

What I saw repeatedly was an attitude of "look.... I know the truth and you just won't listen. It works for me, and so I know it will work for you. Your problem is.... you're you. With all your questions and doubts you are too stubborn. Don't be you, be ME instead. Then these doubts and problems will disappear and all will be OK. "

 

I think this is perfectly normal human attitude and thinking.

Not intellectually honest, but quite typical, for both believers and non-believers.

 

I would have expected though that Christians would be more capable to understand and realize the very simple human truth that everyone else is not them. Not everyone sees and perceives the reality around them, the fundamental aspects of human existence on earth in the same way.

 

You would think that those given understanding of spiritual wisdom and truth would have at least some ability to see that their own perceptions of reality are not comprehensive.

 

Such people seem to begin from a belief that they themselves are the prototypical human model 1.0, and that they therefore have superior awareness, perception, and reasoning. So from there is the reasoning that anything which does not agree with what they see and perceive is by definition, wrong. Not only wrong, as in being incorrect, but with that of course then comes the moral baggage.

 

I noticed time and time again that most (Protestant) ministers and lay believers are adamant that

"see.... everyone else has it wrong!  Me, I've read the bible through, three times and I can tell you that what it means is....."

 

 

[alreadyGone]

It seems to me that we as humans routinely adjust the scope and size of our awareness. We intentionally limit what portions of our personal knowledge and understanding we will allow ourselves at any given time.

 

Of the entire scope of our awareness and understanding, we limit how much we will admit into our thinking and reasoning in any situation.

And that probably of necessity, else we would all be crippled by indecision and hesitation.

 

It often seems though the common human frailty is that this intentional selective denial of reality becomes a routine part of our reasoning, which begins to impair our ability to perceive and understand the truth.  And for many, it becomes a comfortable safe place to hide. 

 

I don't pretend to be superior in this regard.

I do try though with conscious deliberation to apply all my awareness all of the time.

And I'm tired...

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Along these lines, (I'm kinda thinking out loud here) could it be that people have to have a degree of "emotional" security (I don't know what else to call it) before they can seriously think about something that might endanger their eternal life?  Or, to put it another way, cause them to loose the acceptance of, and be rejected by their "daddy" in heaven.  Sometimes that fear of rejection/abandonment gets programmed DEEPLY into a person's mind at a very early age.  I'm almost certain that happened to my wife.  A couple of times in recent years after my leaving religion, I have tried to engage her in logical discussion about "god", and she literally put her hands over her ears and ran out of the room.  That fear of rejection/abandonment can run very deep in lives of people who otherwise are very "normal".  The need for security also keeps people in less than desirable relationships.

 

Does this make sense?  I need to get to bed.  I sometimes embarrass myself with what I write late at night.

 

 

 

[Rounin]

Questioning Christianity too deeply does seem to be very difficult for a lot of people. In addition to the early indoctrination and the deep emotional ties and fear of abandonment, the prospect of an eternal reward or punishment also makes the stakes very high.

 

Besides emotional security, one thing which seems to get a lot of people questioning is when some negative event weakens those emotional ties, for instance when some tragic event in their lives causes them to doubt that God cares about them, or when learning of some negative aspect of Christianity causes them to doubt God's rationality or moral character.

 

While having negative feeling about someone can't disprove that someone's existence, Christian beliefs aren't based on evidence to begin with, and punching a hole in that protective emotional wall can often allow those other questions that one had all along to bubble up to the surface.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

My wife was talking about this today over lunch (we are both deconverted). She said that when she took a religious studies class in early college, her attitude was "but it's STUPID to think of a rock as God. There's only one God, so all the other religions are just wrong." Now she's learning all she can about Hinduism and talking with a friend from Bengal about the nuances of the concepts, not as a matter of belief, but to entertain the concepts and how they are shared among various cultures. 

 

Believers often have a smug attitude towards other beliefs, or non-beliefs. The bible teaches that everyone really knows the truth, they just choose to rebel. Hogwash and codswallop! Written by members of a cult, indoctrinated for decades, and of course the beliefs are known by everyone (forgetting that they used to not know the beliefs and had no regard for the Christian god). Many cults are like that, some aren't. 

[alreadyGone]

On 8/29/2020 at 10:09 PM, Fuego said:

.... Hogwash and codswallop!

 

Seems to sum it up nicely I think.

Possibly some attempt at hornswoggling you suppose?

[florduh]

I need to give credit to my former Bible believing fundamentalist church and pastor. I just kind of drifted away after my epiphany while studying at Moody and nobody pursued me. After a few years I went to a yard sale the church held in their parking lot. A few people said they missed us and hoped we would come back sometime. The pastor, with whom I had a really good relationship and logged lots of hours discussing issues, was only a little more forceful and showed genuine concern and just hoped that at least I was still able to believe. They're good people. It was certainly not because of a bad church I left the religion, it was for concrete reasons that strike at the very basis of the belief. 

[alreadyGone]

Well said  @florduh

 

And I should have said:

That (last) minister was only trying to help me.

He did the best he could and showed honest concern for my well-being.

He admitted a couple times that he didn't have answers to many of my questions.

 

 

 

[Myrkhoos]

Most priests - the Eastern Orthodox have priests, had no good answers for me on the fundamentals - free will and omnipotence and Hell and how you can know which religion is certaintly true. At its core most answers were like "well that is what I think/feel is true". 

[alreadyGone]

deleted, sorry.

[Tsathoggua9]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:54 PM, Weezer said:

Along these lines, (I'm kinda thinking out loud here) could it be that people have to have a degree of "emotional" security (I don't know what else to call it) before they can seriously think about something that might endanger their eternal life?  Or, to put it another way, cause them to loose the acceptance of, and be rejected by their "daddy" in heaven.  Sometimes that fear of rejection/abandonment gets programmed DEEPLY into a person's mind at a very early age.  I'm almost certain that happened to my wife.  A couple of times in recent years after my leaving religion, I have tried to engage her in logical discussion about "god", and she literally put her hands over her ears and ran out of the room.  That fear of rejection/abandonment can run very deep in lives of people who otherwise are very "normal".  The need for security also keeps people in less than desirable relationships.

 

Does this make sense?  I need to get to bed.  I sometimes embarrass myself with what I write late at night.

 

 

On 8/28/2020 at 10:54 PM, Weezer said:

Your point about "emotional security" is spot-on! Some people are so completely indoctrinated that just one mere question about their belief's veracity will send them scurrying like rats. Their whole world could come falling down! Terrifying.......

 

 

 

[alreadyGone]

Well there's the guilt of not being certain if you're skirting the edge of allowing faith to waver or weaken.

There's always that I think.

 

Truth > faith