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The cult of Trump escalated my departure from Christianity


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On 9/6/2020 at 9:05 AM, Weezer said:

Geezer, I see a thread of evidence in what you are saying, but believe it is being blown out of proportion.  Biden is NOT far left.  The far left is NOT in control, and nowhere near being there.  But I do agree they are being given too much leeway in these riots.

 

Not only is Biden not far left, he is actually more of a centrist right-winger, who is basically in the corporations pocket.

 

The only person in the US presidential race that could be considered left was Bernie, and even though he referred to himself as socialist, he wasn't. He's more of a left wing centrist who wanted to bring in some social policies. (Not the same as Socialist). My bet is if you asked US citizens what Socialism and Communisms and Capitalism are, and asked them to differentiate, most would give incorrect answers.

 

The problem in the US is that it is so far right in comparison to most other Western nations that anything left of it is "radical". (A word I see being thrown around a lot here lately) 

 

There is a major problem with protests in general in the US as I see it. That is you have genuine protestors protesting something or other, but then agitators come in and stir shit up... and suddenly all protestors and what they are protesting for is declared radical and violent. (You know as opposed to just identify the actual perpetrators). It's the same as what happens with Atheist's - some are militant and say stuff that most don't agree with, but then all atheists get tarred with the same brush. (Human's love lumping stuff in together)

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I agree with Dave and Josh.   Christians and political Progressives/leftists have in common the idea that the human state can be perfected.  For Christians it occurs when Heaven is reached a

What do you call a Trump supporter in a Texas boat parade?       ...       A Proud Buoy.

The cult of Trump escalated my departure from Christianity. As I watched dignity, honor, and character take a backseat to the Republican party, I started to realize how many Christians were really jus

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As a retired Behavioral and social scientist I am trying to look at the big picture.  I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  They shouldn't get extra privileges, but they need a level playing field which they do not have yet.  From my viewpoint (and my life experience has put me in many situations where I have seen both sides of the issues) on the surface it may seem like prejudiced is much less, partly because it is not politically correct, but it is still rampant.

 

I totally agree with you that they need to crack down on the looters.  But if you look at the big picture in the USA, and get away from a few of the big cities, things are relatively peaceful.  Watching the media you would think the whole country is burning.  It is blown out of proportion. 

 

Yes, black men desert their families, and that is extremely sad. But if you will take the time to study what led up to that, I think you would have a better understanding of why.  I don't have the time or the space to detail it for you here, but will make a stab at it.  In slavery they were property.  Bought and sold like animals with no regard for family ties, family bonding, etc.  Their wifes and mothers were raped by white men.  If they objected, they could be beaten.  If one of their children were sold, they had no recourse.  But if a black man was accused of winking at a white woman, he could be hanged, even after the emancipation. Black men were emasculated from day one.

 

Then, suddenly, they were set free.  Similar to putting an uneducated 6 year old child on the street, and saying, you are on your own now!  Be happy and don't complain!  And bow down and thank me if I throw you a few crumbs.  And by the way, family is now important!

 

If you will do an in depth study I think you will find obstacles have been thrown in their path since day one.  Then the same people throwing out the obstacles yell, "see, I told you they were inferior"!  And the Indians have been treated in similar fashion.  In a sense manifest destiny is still alive.  White, christian power rules.  That is God's plan!  In effect that is what Trump and friends are saying----Trump purely for political reasons, and he would throw Christians under the bus otherwise, as he would do anyone who disagrees with him.

 

For years our welfare system has perpetuated the absent father problem, whether white or black.   Without the ability to earn a living wage, it is more profitable to hide into the background and have more children in other to get bigger welfare checks.  Our whole system needs overhaul.

 

I could go on and on about this subject, but hopefully this will help people see there is more to the story than meets the eye.  I won't even start with the psychological issues that go into this whole political and racial scene.  But will end it by saying Trump is dangerous.   He is interested in nothing but his own ego, money and power, and is willing to do about anything to win.  He is at times delusional, and I suspect some dementia may be setting in.  He is empowering white power and right wing religion, which are close to having a death grip on the USA.   The left wing is chicken feed in comparison.  

 

P.S.  we better hope the blacks and Indians (of which I am part) don't decide to band together!  😁

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1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

There is a major problem with protests in general in the US as I see it. That is you have genuine protestors protesting something or other, but then agitators come in and stir shit up... and suddenly all protestors and what they are protesting for is declared radical and violent. (You know as opposed to just identify the actual perpetrators). It's the same as what happens with Atheist's - some are militant and say stuff that most don't agree with, but then all atheists get tarred with the same brush. (Human's love lumping stuff in together)

 

Yeah, you're right. Well you're actually left of us (as you pointed out), but that's neither here nor there. 😜

 

I'd like to know who the fuck is sending in these people to stir shit up. It's possible that the right could be behind some of it. But you couldn't ask for a better way of making the left look bad even if you tried. They look horrible right now because of these specific instigators and actions. It could be radicals from the left as it appears at face value, who are so bat shit fucking stupid that they can hardly contain themselves from acting out like this. Regardless of consequences and public image. 

 

It could be a mix of both. Maybe it started out as bat shit stupid radicals and then the right saw a chance and took it. And started sending in instigators to left wing protests. Who knows? Could be any number of things. But it all works towards degrading the image and integrity of the left wing of US politics whatever the case may be. 

 

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

The problem in the US is that it is so far right in comparison to most other Western nations that anything left of it is "radical". (A word I see being thrown around a lot here lately) 

 

What's odd is that in those global political quizes we take, most of the US members here are left of center by global standard. Some a little right of the established center on the political quiz. On that quiz I came out left of center for some reason. But on another quiz I had to put what country I'm from and it places about a few bars right of center. Which is where my vote is going anyways, so it just is what it is at this point. The republicans will be receiving a lot of new votes this go around from what I've been seeing and hearing in the social media world. 

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13 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

It could be a mix of both. Maybe it started out as bat shit stupid radicals and then the right saw a chance and took it. And started sending in instigators to left wing protests. Who knows? Could be any number of things.

 

In my opinion, the blame for any violence being carried out belongs entirely to -- and only to -- the person(s) committing the violence. 

 

Attributing my responses to the stimuli of what other people do doesn't fly anywhere. I am always in control of and held accountable for my responses to stimuli. In other words I am always responsible for my own actions, regardless of the actions of others. 

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1 hour ago, Weezer said:

As a retired Behavioral and social scientist I am trying to look at the big picture.  I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  They shouldn't get extra privileges, but they need a level playing field which they do not have yet.  From my viewpoint (and my life experience has put me in many situations where I have seen both sides of the issues) on the surface it may seem like prejudiced is much less, partly because it is not politically correct, but it is still rampant.

 

I totally agree with you that they need to crack down on the looters.  But if you look at the big picture in the USA, and get away from a few of the big cities, things are relatively peaceful.  Watching the media you would think the whole country is burning.  It is blown out of proportion. 

 

Yes, black men desert their families, and that is extremely sad. But if you will take the time to study what led up to that, I think you would have a better understanding of why.  I don't have the time or the space to detail it for you here, but will make a stab at it.  In slavery they were property.  Bought and sold like animals with no regard for family ties, family bonding, etc.  Their wifes and mothers were raped by white men.  If they objected, they could be beaten.  If one of their children were sold, they had no recourse.  But if a black man was accused of winking at a white woman, he could be hanged, even after the emancipation. Black men were emasculated from day one.

 

Then, suddenly, they were set free.  Similar to putting an uneducated 6 year old child on the street, and saying, you are on your own now!  Be happy and don't complain!  And bow down and thank me if I throw you a few crumbs.  And by the way, family is now important!

 

If you will do an in depth study I think you will find obstacles have been thrown in their path since day one.  Then the same people throwing out the obstacles yell, "see, I told you they were inferior"!  And the Indians have been treated in similar fashion.  In a sense manifest destiny is still alive.  White, christian power rules.  That is God's plan!  In effect that is what Trump and friends are saying----Trump purely for political reasons, and he would throw Christians under the bus otherwise, as he would do anyone who disagrees with him.

 

For years our welfare system has perpetuated the absent father problem, whether white or black.   Without the ability to earn a living wage, it is more profitable to hide into the background and have more children in other to get bigger welfare checks.  Our whole system needs overhaul.

 

I could go on and on about this subject, but hopefully this will help people see there is more to the story than meets the eye.  I won't even start with the psychological issues that go into this whole political and racial scene.  But will end it by saying Trump is dangerous.   He is interested in nothing but his own ego, money and power, and is willing to do about anything to win.  He is at times delusional, and I suspect some dementia may be setting in.  He is empowering white power and right wing religion, which are close to having a death grip on the USA.   The left wing is chicken feed in comparison.  

 

P.S.  we better hope the blacks and Indians (of which I am part) don't decide to band together!  😁

 

I think the currently popular narrative which assigns blame for people's behavior who are living today on events occuring four or five generations before they were even born perpetuates a victim mentality that is not particularly helpful to anyone.  True empowerement comes from taking responsibility for one's own sucess in life, regardless of ancestral heritage. And, in my opinion, comparing freed slaves in any way to 6-year-olds could be interpreted as feeding into the narrative of racial inferiority.

 

Anyway, 155 years after the end of the Civil War, and 52 years  after the end the Civil Rights movement,  poor black people still need a white savior to straighten out their lives? 

 

Hmm....

 

https://scholars.org/brief/why-has-marriage-declined-among-black-americans

 

 

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2 hours ago, webmdave said:

 

Anyway, 155 years after the end of the Civil War, and 52 years  after the end the Civil Rights movement,  poor black people still need a white savior to straighten out their lives?

 

No.  They do not.  Where do I even suggest that? 

 I am saying we treated them like animals, turned them loose without the "tools" they needed to blend into our society, even making it very difficult for them to do so. And are still making it difficult for them.  They are no different than any other human beings under the same circumstances.  I will say that again.  They are no different than any other human beings under the same circumstances.  If you disagree, show me the proof. 

 

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3 hours ago, webmdave said:

 

 And, in my opinion, comparing freed slaves in any way to 6-year-olds could be interpreted as feeding into the narrative of racial inferiority.

 

That was NOT my intent.  The point is that they were NOT prepared for what they were being sent into.

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3 hours ago, webmdave said:

 

  True empowerement comes from taking responsibility for one's own sucess in life, regardless of ancestral heritage.

 

I agree.  But is everyone standing on a level playing field?  Sometimes the field is so tilted it is difficult to even play ball.

 

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4 hours ago, Weezer said:

I agree.  But is everyone standing on a level playing field?  Sometimes the field is so tilted it is difficult to even play ball.

 

 

Life isn't fair for anyone in any time period in any country. Unless a person is dedicated and determined to take full responsibility for his or her own individual succees (however we might define success),  no amount of outside assistance will provide long-term relief.

 

Just my opinion...

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On 9/7/2020 at 12:31 AM, Weezer said:

That was NOT my intent.  The point is that they were NOT prepared for what they were being sent into.

 

And my point was that opportunity is not necessarily accompanied by comprehensive training on how to best maximize the opportunity.

 

Besides, I wonder, how many generations must live and die before I should just stop relying on wrongs committed in the remote past as an excuse for my current behavior?  The line between enabling and assiting is thin. 

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5 hours ago, Weezer said:

No.  They do not.  Where do I even suggest that? 

 I am saying we treated them like animals, turned them loose without the "tools" they needed to blend into our society, even making it very difficult for them to do so. And are still making it difficult for them.  They are no different than any other human beings under the same circumstances.  I will say that again.  They are no different than any other human beings under the same circumstances.  If you disagree, show me the proof. 

 

 

If your perspective in this area is indeed a universal truth, I would posit that no disabused people group or their decendents will ever be capable of success without help from some "privileged" savior. 

 

I should certainly be counted guilty and held accountable for my individual misbehavior. However, I stand with Viktor Frankl when it comes to generational guilt. I have never treated any people like animals. I do not accept any guilt or resposibility for any crimes which may have been committed by my parents, grandparents, or ancestors. In other words, I do not count myself a member of your guilt-burdened  "we."

 

I gladly accept responsibility for and the consequences of my own behavior. 

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12 hours ago, Weezer said:

Then, suddenly, they were set free.  Similar to putting an uneducated 6 year old child on the street, and saying, you are on your own now!  Be happy and don't complain!  And bow down and thank me if I throw you a few crumbs.  And by the way, family is now important!

 

I know that you mean well.

 

But this is a good example of the white liberal oriented 'bigotry of low expectation.'

 

It is a type of bigotry, cloaked as good doing. And in a lot of cases assume it's a subconscious form of bigotry. I watch a lot from black conservatives. They really dislike people taking the attitude you're suggesting above. It suggests that we are not all just as capable as one another, and not equal as human beings. 

 

I've never bought in to the BOLE myself. I choose to see everyone as equally capable of charting their paths. Which I see as a respect oriented position to take. I respect everyone's ability to do it themselves. If they fail to achieve, it's the individual person to blame, not a broad sweeping entire race or gender type. The playing field is wide open for any and everyone to take from it as they will. And has been for at least the last 60 years and several generations of new babies growing up in this post civil rights environment of the US.  

 

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

Yes, black men desert their families, and that is extremely sad. But if you will take the time to study what led up to that, I think you would have a better understanding of why.  I don't have the time or the space to detail it for you here, but will make a stab at it.  In slavery they were property.  Bought and sold like animals with no regard for family ties, family bonding, etc.  Their wifes and mothers were raped by white men.  If they objected, they could be beaten.  If one of their children were sold, they had no recourse.  But if a black man was accused of winking at a white woman, he could be hanged, even after the emancipation. Black men were emasculated from day one.

 

The black nuclear family held strong until after the civil rights movement, from what I've heard. Larry Elder, a leading voice for black conservatives cites these statistics all the time. I've posted many videos of him outlining it. What he points out is that when the welfare state required that a male not be living in the home, it was like a bomb shell dropped on the black community. Good intentions, bad results. Because good intentions by white liberals which are not very well thought out, can turn out horribly wrong if allowed to play out. This is one such example. 

 

People need to look at these politics with intent skepticism. In fact, the more something is paraded as for the good of humanity, the more skeptical people need to become. Because a lot of harm can be done in the name of, or under the guise of in some cases, trying to help out. Well meaning people can lead everyone astray, as lost leaders. "Follow me, I know the way!!!" We have a lot of that going on right with BLM and antifa. I wager that they do not know the way, and everyone would be wise not to follow them OR support them in any manner. 

 

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

But will end it by saying Trump is dangerous.   He is interested in nothing but his own ego, money and power, and is willing to do about anything to win.  He is at times delusional, and I suspect some dementia may be setting in.  He is empowering white power and right wing religion, which are close to having a death grip on the USA.   The left wing is chicken feed in comparison.  

 

 

I expect that many liberals see Trump as very dangerous when he does things like get unemployment as low as he did prior to the pandemic. Or to start sweeping up black and other minority voters like he's been doing. And appeal to the middle class in ways that won him the 2016 election. Very dangerous to liberals who've been cut off at the knee caps as he sweeps in their usual voter bases. A weird guy who says some dumb things, and yet has the ability to strip away a lot of the democrats from voting democrat.

 

In a strange way, I do think that ego and all, his intentions have actually been to try and reverse trends that were not good for America. Trends that Biden was a part of. The globalism had to be turned around into more of a nationalism in order to reverse these bad trade deals and bad business. It took an eccentric, egoic, business man personality to point out the problems and try and reverse them. Career politicians wouldn't do it.

 

The more the democrats acted desperate and tried to force him out of office, the more I saw them as showing their true colors. Rampant haters. Refusing to stand up for reports of American prosperity among women and minority groups. Hating the fact that Trump went into THEIR territory and voter base to make things better and THEY were not to take credit for the achievements. I don't doubt that he did this to feed his own ego, but he did it! He can get more done for minorities than these so called, "democrat plantation," owners can or will.

 

And that makes him extremely dangerous to partisan democrats.....

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2 hours ago, webmdave said:

If your perspective in this area is indeed a universal truth, I would posit that no disabused people group or their decendents will ever be capable of success without help from some "privileged" savior. 

 

 

Folks, this is WHY I maintain that the US hold ground just as the constitution is set to do. Even though it was set up in the past during a slavery era, the playing field HAS been leveled thereafter for minorities and women in terms of voting and constitutional rights. The freedom factor is a level playing field for everyone, even though it wasn't from the outset several centuries ago. That doesn't matter. All of that has been changed on the systemic, governmental level. 

 

The notion of placing white's as some type of "savior," is disgraceful, even if well intended by the person suggesting it. It's disgraceful because it elevates white people up on a pedestal and places everyone else in question below it. It's a form of racism and it's part of being a racist. To get away from racism, would have to mean also getting away from this SJW type of white superiority complex. In addition to outright white nationalism and other forms of blatant racism. 

 

So then what? 

 

Well then we're right back to what we're talking about here. Treating everyone as INDIVIDUALS and not as RACIAL GROUPS. That's the horizon that I'm seeing out past the violence and rioting. At some point our American society is going to have to move beyond the BOLE, and white "savior" superiority complexes, if advancing forward is an objective. Looking ahead as we proceed, not constantly looking backwards and trying to relive past injustices over and over again. 

 

What else????

 

 

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16 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Treating everyone as INDIVIDUALS and not as RACIAL GROUPS. That's the horizon that I'm seeing out past the violence and rioting. At some point our American society is going to have to move beyond the BOLE, and white "savior" superiority complexes, if advancing forward is an objective. Looking ahead as we proceed, not constantly looking backwards and trying to relive past injustices over and over again. 

 

I AGREE!

Mentioning the past was an effort to promote understanding.  Not to excuse.  And I do not understand why you guys are mentioning "white savior complexes."   I have never suggested jumping in to save anyone.   I agree with you that white savior complexes, like our welfare system,  have made the problem worse.  I said that above.  I have argued in the halls of state Congress against that.  But handing out free money to the poor gets more votes than raising the minimum wage so the poor can make a living wage and be proud of their accomplishments.  Just one way we could help level the playing field, which is my answer to the problem.  If you can't see that the playing field is not level, perhaps it is because you are not seeing the big picture. 

 

You evidently have studied religion in order to see the big picture.  Have you studied human and social development to see how people and groups come to be the way they are?  Maybe I missed something in the 40 years I spent in the field, but I am convinced that the playing field is not level, and those in power don't want a level playing field.  And it isn't just with the blacks.  It is a tactic the powerful use to help keep their power and have cheap labor.  The rich and powerful have always done that. 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Weezer said:

And I do not understand why you guys are mentioning "white savior complexes." 

 

Neither do I. Seems to be a red herring to me.

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5 hours ago, Weezer said:

Maybe I missed something in the 40 years I spent in the field, but I am convinced that the playing field is not level, and those in power don't want a level playing field.  

 

One of my concerns with these sort of conversations, (And I have them all the time with my Parents because NZ has similar historical issues with the way the Maori were treated - no where near as bad as African Americans though) is that many people don't seem to grasp how having certain races trampled down for close to 150 years leads to massive inequality. It's at the point that reading some of these posts here make me wonder if we occupy the same reality. Saying everyone has equal rights and equal opportunity now so everything should be fine and dandy is akin to the mythical nonsense like 'pull yourself up by the boot straps'. I'm not sure if anyone has had this thought, and it's slightly off topic, but relates to Weezers earlier posts, but capitalism requires people at the bottom for the system to work. Imagine if everyone could become that billionaire... there would be none of the low paid workers at the bottom that actually make the system tick over. The gap between the wealthy and the poor is growing. Why? Are the poor just lazy? Well, really, there's not much difference between me and a poor person. The gap between us is insignificant compared to the gap between me and the wealthiest of even just NZ. This gap is growing and contributes to a very uneven playing field. 

 

Back onto the problem of why are non white populations generally more socio-economically disadvantaged. I have a kind of thought experiment. What are some similarities between the native peoples of NZ, Australia, US, and Africa? Well they are all non white for a start, and they've all had horrific mistreatment in the past 150 years or so. (Close enough in time so that some of the oldest today will have known a grandparent who would have had first hand experiance, or second generation stories of what went on) And they are all socio-economically worse off as a whole. But praise be, we made some in roads and have finally given them the same rights and opportunities (theoretically) as anyone else. So why the difference? I think we have two possible answers - either these races are indeed inferior as our ancestors thought... or perhaps there are other factors at play here. Perhaps the playing field isn't as level as claimed? Maybe we tell ourselves as a society myths to make us feel better? Who knows.

 

I leave you with this graphic which sums up what I'm trying to say, but better with less words.

 

Conscise history.jpg

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Getting involved here goes against my better judgement, but fuck it.

 

These days, every time my school board gives a presentation, training video, etc, they begin by acknowledging that we are conducting our business on unceded and unsurrendered indigenous territory, and by thanking the First Nations groups for their hospitality. To my ears, this always sounds like "Yeah. Our anscestors stole your land, and we're gonna keep it. Thanks for your hospitality."

 

Don't get me wrong; I'm not proposing that the land should just be given back. I have no idea what should actually be done. But it seems patently obvious to me that attrocities were performed, that I benefit from this, and that they suffer because of it. The playing field is decidedly not level. I do not know how to level it, but I find it very clear that admitting that it isn't level is literally the least we can do.

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6 hours ago, Weezer said:

I have argued in the halls of state Congress against that.  But handing out free money to the poor gets more votes than raising the minimum wage so the poor can make a living wage and be proud of their accomplishments.  Just one way we could help level the playing field, which is my answer to the problem.  If you can't see that the playing field is not level, perhaps it is because you are not seeing the big picture. 

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's more of a general point anyways. There are people bent on this white savior complex and it does come off as racist, even if subconscious racism. 

 

The minimum wage issue is complex as well. As a kid and young adult, sure, I was all for raising minimum wage as high as possible. Look at all these big corporations, they can afford it, right? And then I grew up and went into business for myself with small businesses. And began to see why the controversy is there. Something like taking minimum wage up to $15 an hour would narrow the prophet margins of big corporations and annoy them, sure. But it would put countless small businesses right out of business. They couldn't afford to pay it. 

 

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

You evidently have studied religion in order to see the big picture.  Have you studied human and social development to see how people and groups come to be the way they are?  Maybe I missed something in the 40 years I spent in the field, but I am convinced that the playing field is not level, and those in power don't want a level playing field.  And it isn't just with the blacks.  It is a tactic the powerful use to help keep their power and have cheap labor.  The rich and powerful have always done that. 

 

Not so much, but as with religion or science I would like to closely understand some of these social science issues. I just generally like to analyze things closely that come up as interesting.

 

I've already noted that cheap labor is necessary for the economy to function. As a small business owner I understand that. I'm not the huge, power hungry mega corporation conspiring to keep the playing field out of level. I'm just a guy that started his own business from the ground up with zero help from the government, no loans or lines of credit from any bank, and no help from family or friends. I just leased a building and kept putting money back in the business. I do as much of the labor as I can manage myself to save money. 

 

Big corporations can and do take advantage of the necessity for cheap labor. So maybe what needs to be done is to have different minimum wages, where large corporations have it set differently than small businesses. Just a thought. And people can pick and choose where to work, either for big corporations for $15 or some small business for the national minimum wage. But I'm sure even that would still come with problems if we analyzed it very closely. 

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1 hour ago, disillusioned said:

Getting involved here goes against my better judgement, but fuck it.

 

These days, every time my school board gives a presentation, training video, etc, they begin by acknowledging that we are conducting our business on unceded and unsurrendered indigenous territory, and by thanking the First Nations groups for their hospitality. To my ears, this always sounds like "Yeah. Our anscestors stole your land, and we're gonna keep it. Thanks for your hospitality."

 

Don't get me wrong; I'm not proposing that the land should just be given back. I have no idea what should actually be done. But it seems patently obvious to me that attrocities were performed, that I benefit from this, and that they suffer because of it. The playing field is decidedly not level. I do not know how to level it, but I find it very clear that admitting that it isn't level is literally the least we can do.

 

The government doesn't pay the natives in Canada? 

 

We have a lot of native Americans here in Florida. You drive through the reservations and they have the best trucks, boats, and other toys all out in the yards. I had one mixed boy working with me. He started getting checks around the end of high school. All the other kids were quite jealous of his trucks. What they've done here is tip the field in favor of the natives for having stolen the land. Not that it justifies stealing the land, but I guess at least the natives have their casinos and get big money. I know some people both male and female who married natives. They receive so much money for each child. It's just one of the examples of how the government tries to tipping the playing field in favor of some people, for various reasons. 

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A level playing field sounds intriguing.

 

Has their ever once been a "level playing field" in human history? Does the ability to make life 100% fair for all people exist? 

 

I wonder what that would even look like.

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5 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

The government doesn't pay the natives in Canada? 

 

 

Some of them do receive some monetary reparations, but this is beside the point. It's like cutting someone's leg off, and then giving them a bandaid and some crutches and calling it all good. Also, I've noticed that neither side seems to think that just throwing money at it will really fix the problem. Systemic racism and oppression is about much more than just money.

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37 minutes ago, disillusioned said:

Systemic racism and oppression is about much more than just money.

 

So what should be done? 

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3 hours ago, webmdave said:

 

So what should be done? 

 

I've already said I have no idea how to fix this. But at the very least we should recognize that there is an actual problem, and should listen to, and take very seriously, those who have been, and are being, oppressed.

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Like Disillusioned, I don't know how to fix our current problems, but I do know it requires more thinking than the same ol same ol. But much of the time we seem to want to ignore the fact that a problem even exists... which reminds me of a quote I've heard:

 

The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist.

Zig Ziglar

 

 

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