The Future of Morality

[Joshpantera]

Watch for twists and turns: 

 

 

How many saw it coming early on????

[◊ Weezer ◊]

It would be great to send a video of that to every fundamental preacher in the nation.

[Joshpantera]

Well, eventually some new apologist may pop in and try commenting on the video. 

[Edgarcito]

First of all, we know this is not real.  Take for instance the scene when they were time traveling......the earth spinning.  We all know that to move time, you have to go around and around the earth super fast like Superman in the movie....hello McFly...

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

What is real, is that according to the Bible, God ordered those people to be slaughtered, and that it was okay to "use" their young women.  Is that the god you look up to?  Is that the same god who later sent Jesus with a message of love, turn the other cheek, etc?  How do you account for the change?  Sounds like another ancient myth to me.  And an inconsistant one at that.

[WalterP]

13 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

First of all, we know this is not real.  Take for instance the scene when they were time traveling......the earth spinning.  We all know that to move time, you have to go around and around the earth super fast like Superman in the movie....hello McFly...

 

 

I happen to agree with you Edgarcito. 

 

The argument put forward in the video is inherently weak because it relies upon science fiction to make its case.  Stronger arguments are made by using science facts.  Facts established by science are real in ways that fiction can never be.  They can be empirically tested and checked and replicated.  

 

But I'm not sure that you've fully thought out the full implications of your own 'this is not real' argument, Edgarcito.

 

The contents of the Bible can never be empirically tested, checked or replicated.

 

The reader is expected to accept them as true by faith and without evidence.

 

Hebrew 11 : 1 says, "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

 

We know that talking snakes and living dead men are not real.

 

Nor can such things ever be tested or checked to establish that they ever were real.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter. 

 

 

 

 

[Edgarcito]

11 hours ago, Weezer said:

What is real, is that according to the Bible, God ordered those people to be slaughtered, and that it was okay to "use" their young women.  Is that the god you look up to?  Is that the same god who later sent Jesus with a message of love, turn the other cheek, etc?  How do you account for the change?  Sounds like another ancient myth to me.  And an inconsistant one at that.

I always go back to the definition of holy/clean.  If we knew specifically what that definition entailed, then "do this or do that" might make better sense.  I've just understood for God to reside with humanity, holiness/cleanliness needs to be constantly resolved.  So lets say God is within a room, that absolute of holiness must be maintained that God remain in the room.  Has been a long time since I read the Bible, but seems to me that humanity didn't understand the definition nor want to maintain that relationship.  So I think simply that God says "I understand, you don't know, and few are capable, so here is a form you can relate to, and also I am giving you Grace as long as you maintain faith.  

 

That's my best guess W.  Thx.

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

I always go back to the definition of holy/clean.  If we knew specifically what that definition entailed, then "do this or do that" might make better sense.  I've just understood for God to reside with humanity, holiness/cleanliness needs to be constantly resolved.  So lets say God is within a room, that absolute of holiness must be maintained that God remain in the room. 

 

God is a germaphobe? 

 

[Edgarcito]

6 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

God is a germaphobe? 

 

Now that you mention it, I think we could easily use the Covid 19 pandemic as an analogous example.....i.e. we don't understand the mechanism to be Covid free (clean).  Then apply all the reactions of humanity to the situation.  Very similar in my mind.  Battling for life.  Carry on smarty pants.

[florduh]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Now that you mention it, I think we could easily use the Covid 19 pandemic as an analogous example.....i.e. we don't understand the mechanism to be Covid free (clean).  Then apply all the reactions of humanity to the situation.  Very similar in my mind.  Battling for life.  Carry on smarty pants.

Actually we DO understand how to deal with and mitigate Covid 19 but we refuse to do it because it would be inconvenient.

[Edgarcito]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

Actually we DO understand how to deal with and mitigate Covid 19 but we refuse to do it because it would be inconvenient.

I don't think totally.  I don't gather that we do understand the mechanics of it well enough to eradicate it.  And you are making my point that even if we did understand the totality of "cleanliness", no disease, no "sin", that it would be inconvenient to some.  <enter the Christian God>....ok children, I am going to give you Grace instead...

[WalterP]

6 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I always go back to the definition of holy/clean.  If we knew specifically what that definition entailed, then "do this or do that" might make better sense.  I've just understood for God to reside with humanity, holiness/cleanliness needs to be constantly resolved.  So lets say God is within a room, that absolute of holiness must be maintained that God remain in the room.  Has been a long time since I read the Bible, but seems to me that humanity didn't understand the definition nor want to maintain that relationship.  So I think simply that God says "I understand, you don't know, and few are capable, so here is a form you can relate to, and also I am giving you Grace as long as you maintain faith.  

 

That's my best guess W.  Thx.

 

You are operating a double standard, Edgarcito.

 

 

Yesterday you confidently announced that... 'We know this (the video) is not real."

 

But today you are treating the Biblical definition of holiness as real.

 

 

The video is not real because there is no evidence outside of the video to corroborate time travel.

 

In a similar way, there is no evidence outside of the Bible to corroborate what it says about holiness.

 

 

Both cases are equal, yet you have treated one as real and the other as not being real.

 

As I said... a double standard.

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WalterP]

2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I don't think totally.  I don't gather that we do understand the mechanics of it well enough to eradicate it.  And you are making my point that even if we did understand the totality of "cleanliness", no disease, no "sin", that it would be inconvenient to some.  <enter the Christian God>....ok children, I am going to give you Grace instead...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

 

Comparing apples (sin) with oranges (a virus).

[◊ Weezer ◊]

12 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I always go back to the definition of holy/clean.  If we knew specifically what that definition entailed, then "do this or do that" might make better sense.  I've just understood for God to reside with humanity, holiness/cleanliness needs to be constantly resolved.  So lets say God is within a room, that absolute of holiness must be maintained that God remain in the room.  Has been a long time since I read the Bible, but seems to me that humanity didn't understand the definition nor want to maintain that relationship.  So I think simply that God says "I understand, you don't know, and few are capable, so here is a form you can relate to, and also I am giving you Grace as long as you maintain faith.  

 

That's my best guess W.  Thx.

 

Gobbledegoop and poop. 

[Edgarcito]

11 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

Gobbledegoop and poop. 

I don't think so W.  We either maintain the sin nature immediately, an ongoing process, or we are given Grace through faith.....a deferment.  Kind of like driving a vehicle without maintenance.  You can deal with your relationship with the car immediately and atone with oil for your driving offenses or you can have faith that that the engineer that built the car knew the customer would only run the car on one quart....so He puts HIS oil in for you.  Don't make me have to explain it again Wheezy....

[WalterP]

5 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I don't think so W.  We either maintain the sin nature immediately, an ongoing process, or we are given Grace through faith.....a deferment.  Kind of like driving a vehicle without maintenance.  You can deal with your relationship with the car immediately and atone with oil for your driving offenses or you can have faith that that the engineer that built the car knew the customer would only run the car on one quart....so He puts HIS oil in for you.  Don't make me have to explain it again Wheezy....

 

You've just done it again, Edgarcito.

 

On Friday you called out the video as not being real, because time travel doesn't exist.

 

But today you are treating sin and grace as real, without providing any objective evidence that they exist.

 

That's a double standard.

 

 

Your belief in the sin and grace doesn't make them real, you know.

 

But we can treat them as real if there's objective evidence for them.

 

 

Q.  Where's the objective evidence for time travel?

 

A.  There is none.  Therefore time travel isn't real.

 

Q.  Where's the objective evidence for sin and grace?

 

A.  There is none.  Therefore they aren't real.

 

 

See how that worked?  No double standard.  Time travel, sin and grace all treated equally, with the bottom line being objective evidence.

 

No objective evidence?  Then it's not real.

 

 

Walter.

 

[Edgarcito]

3 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

You've just done it again, Edgarcito.

 

On Friday you called out the video as not being real, because time travel doesn't exist.

 

But today you are treating sin and grace as real, without providing any objective evidence that they exist.

 

That's a double standard.

 

 

Your belief in the sin and grace doesn't make them real, you know.

 

But we can treat them as real if there's objective evidence for them.

 

 

Q.  Where's the objective evidence for time travel?

 

A.  There is none.  Therefore time travel isn't real.

 

Q.  Where's the objective evidence for sin and grace?

 

A.  There is none.  Therefore they aren't real.

 

 

See how that worked?  No double standard.  Time travel, sin and grace all treated equally, with the bottom line being objective evidence.

 

No objective evidence?  Then it's not real.

 

 

Walter.

 

No one is keeping you from viewing life from this standpoint sir.  Is there such thing as beauty? Love? You have ample opportunity to objectively define your life.  Hope you kick it through the goal posts sir.  Honestly, I think it's a sad perspective, but tally ho....

[WalterP]

1 minute ago, Edgarcito said:

No one is keeping you from viewing life from this standpoint sir.  Is there such thing as beauty? Love? You have ample opportunity to objectively define your life.  Hope you kick it through the goal posts sir.  Honestly, I think it's a sad perspective, but tally ho....

 

There's little point in tossing this one back to me, Edgarcito.

 

You set the standard - the video is not real because it time travel isn't objectively real.

 

Then you violated your own standard by treating sin and grace as objectively real.

 

I'm not the one operating a double standard in this thread.  You are.

 

Put your own house in order before you accuse me of anything or ask further questions.

[Edgarcito]

1 minute ago, WalterP said:

 

There's little point in tossing this one back to me, Edgarcito.

 

You set the standard - the video is not real because it time travel isn't objectively real.

 

Then you violated your own standard by treating sin and grace as objectively real.

 

I'm not the one operating a double standard in this thread.  You are.

 

Put your own house in order before you accuse me of anything or ask further questions.

My original post was an attempt at humor....reasonably sure you missed my effort.  Thx.

[WalterP]

Ah, so that's your get-out-of-jail card, is it?

 

You ****** up and have been called on it and you now want to try and wriggle off the hook asap?

 

And send a disparaging Parthian Shot my way as you do so?

 

 

Is you ego so fragile that you just can't own up to your mistakes, thank the people pointing out your errors and resist the urge to badmouth them?

 

I suppose not.

 

 

Walter.

 

 

[Edgarcito]

7 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Ah, so that's your get-out-of-jail card, is it?

 

You ****** up and have been called on it and you now want to try and wriggle off the hook asap?

 

And send a disparaging Parthian Shot my way as you do so?

 

 

Is you ego so fragile that you just can't own up to your mistakes, thank the people pointing out your errors and resist the urge to badmouth them?

 

I suppose not.

 

 

Walter.

 

 

Is  your conscious stream real?  Is mine?  Can you objectively define these please so we might both stand on one side of the fence to discuss?  Have you perhaps violated your own standard? Get with the program sir.

[WalterP]

1 minute ago, Edgarcito said:

Is  your conscious stream real?  Is mine?  Can you objectively define these please so we might both stand on one side of the fence to discuss?  Have you perhaps violated your own standard? Get with the program sir.

 

Stop trying to kick this back to me, Edgarcito.

 

You set the original standard and then you violated your own standard.

 

This is self-contained.

 

This is all about what you set up and what you then knocked down.

 

I don't have to do anything.

 

 

 

Another Parthian Shot, I see?

 

 

Walter.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

4 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Is  your conscious stream real?  Is mine?  Can you objectively define these please so we might both stand on one side of the fence to discuss?  Have you perhaps violated your own standard? Get with the program sir.

You remind me of a politician.   Great at diverting the conversation and avoiding the issues.  You should apply for a job working for Donald Trump.

[Edgarcito]

3 minutes ago, Weezer said:

You remind me of a politician.   Great at diverting the conversation and avoiding the issues.  You should apply for a job working for Donald Trump.

I see, like deconverting....

[TheRedneckProfessor]

54 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Hope you kick it through the goal posts sir. 

He'd have better luck if the damn things would stay put.