The Rapture (Current Pandemic and Fires)

[Guest KrysLostInSpace]

Don't know how you guys are feeling but the current pandemic along with California and Australia being torched... it doesn't bring up good memories. It's kind of triggering actually. The weather and climate change are just getting worse and worse. It's horrifying knowing I'm going to be living in a world like this. It's not going to change either I'm afraid. Net zero is impossible and America will likely never join in the efforts. I've known things were going to shit for a long time but growing up in a Christian religion... everything like this just puts me on edge.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

We are going through some terrible events, but I have heard those "rapture" warnings for over 70 years.  Is that your concern?

[Guest KrysLostInSpace]

5 minutes ago, Weezer said:

We are going through some terrible events, but I have heard those "rapture" warnings for over 70 years.  Is that your concern?

I don't really know. 

[florduh]

The world has gone to shit again as it frequently does. Our little window on time doesn't let us enjoy the ice age, black plague, Spanish flu, various natural disasters and political/religious purges that have taken place before. Our current problems of a new virus and accelerated climate change are due to current politicians around the world, particularly American ones. More than 95% of all species have already gone extinct, so we're doing well so far!

[WalterP]

Hi Krys!    

 

I know that fear is an irrational thing, but sometimes a look at the long view can put things into their proper perspective.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

 

As far as we know there have been five major extinction events in Earth's 4.5 billion year history.

 

Even the least of them dwarfs what's happening today.

 

And after each one, when it seemed that life couldn't possibly recover... after a few million years it did.

 

Even after...  T H E   G R E A T   D Y I N G  ...when 96% of all sea life and 70% of land-based life was wiped out, life bounced back.

 

So mankind screws up the planet and dies out?  Just wait a few million years and the Earth will be green and rich with life again.

 

The trick is to realise that everything doesn't depend us and doesn't revolve around us.  Despite what the Bible says, its not all about us.

 

We are minor players in the great pageant of life on Earth and will (sooner or later) go the same way as the trilobites,  the dinos and the woolly mammoth.

 

 

If you can Krys, take a drive and try and find something like this.

 

 

https://thenaturalhistorian.com/2014/07/12/nh-notes-bent-rock-on-display-the-sideling-hill-road-cut/

 

Each layer took hundreds of thousands of years to be laid down, millions more years to be compressed, bent and warped by earthquakes and continental movements and millions more again to be thrust up to the surface, where we newcomers just so happened to make a road cutting through it.

 

 

If that's not enough deep time for you, try this.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MACS0647-JD

 

Those blurry pixels were made by the light of a distant galaxy.  That light has been travelling to us for 13.26 billion years.  That's three times the age of the Earth itself.

 

Food for thought, huh?

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Jesus won't come back until this Spring.  I will have to handle my own yard work until then.

[alreadyGone]

17 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Jesus won't come back until this Spring.  I will have to handle my own yard work until then.

As long as you're keeping busy.

[Hierophant]

Check out this book, it does provide some balance to the climate change alarmist:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Never-Environmental-Alarmism-Hurts/dp/0063001691/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

I do understand how you feel. It is easy to be anxious about all of the world's problems as if they are on you to figure out. Truth is, it's not. I used to get all worked up thinking everything I did would somehow help solve the climate change problem. Truth is, the entire world needs to be on board before anything really drastic is going to happen. And in my opinion, technology will get us out of any jam we might have gotten into. Humans are ingenious and nothing drives ingenuity like a crisis.

 

I will say this, we are far from an environmental disaster. The wild fires in CA are not because of climate change. It is the result of idiots starting fires and shit land management. Just like in Australia, people got the bright idea that controlled burns were bad and now you have this undergrowth that makes these fires worse than need be.

[Guest KrysLostInSpace]

Yeah, logically I know the wildfires are the results of idiots. I just constantly have to hear the rhetoric of Christianity and tuning it out isn't always easy. They like to dig away at you so the fear sets it. I've held up pretty good and still am but it's just those old whispers of my previous fears. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

10 hours ago, KrysLostInSpace said:

 it's just those old whispers of my previous fears. 

 

Thank goodness, those whispers gradually faded out for me, and likely will for you also.  

[mwc]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:25 AM, KrysLostInSpace said:

Yeah, logically I know the wildfires are the results of idiots. I just constantly have to hear the rhetoric of Christianity and tuning it out isn't always easy. They like to dig away at you so the fear sets it. I've held up pretty good and still am but it's just those old whispers of my previous fears. 

     Here's a nice wiki article on the current CA fires.

 

          mwc

 

[LogicalFallacy]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:35 AM, Hierophant said:

I will say this, we are far from an environmental disaster.

 

Having studied the multitude of environmental challenges that face us I think the above statement is a wee bit optimistic. It's not just climate change that presents challenges. Do I think that anything will be as bad as the worst doomsayers say? No, but if we don't clean our act up it will still be bad. I bring glad tidings however. People and business are starting to wake up and take action. Too late or just at the right time? Only time will tell.

 

Quote

The wild fires in CA are not because of climate change. It is the result of idiots starting fires and shit land management. Just like in Australia, people got the bright idea that controlled burns were bad and now you have this undergrowth that makes these fires worse than need be.

 

Strictly speaking, no the fires are not caused by climate change. But climate change does influence the climatic conditions in which the fires burn which can and does have positive effects on the fires which is not good for anything being burned.

 

Where did you get the information about people in Australia thinking that controlled burns were a bad idea? What happened is multifaceted. They had a long dry spell, they didn't have conditions suitable for burn off, warmer temperatures contributed to the severity, and the climate change denying (though possibly reversing their position) current government under that dip shit Morrison cut funding and ignored the fire chiefs warnings. Then they blamed it on the Green Party the bunch of wankers! Meanwhile Morrison offered thoughts and prayers to the victims like they do in the US.

 

 

Some links and studies about the impact of climate change on wildfires.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2019/07/wildfires-and-climate-change-whats-the-connection/

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/australia-wildfires-climate-change

https://nhess.copernicus.org/preprints/nhess-2020-69/ 

 

 

So after that I'll address the OP

 

On 9/13/2020 at 3:20 PM, KrysLostInSpace said:

Don't know how you guys are feeling but the current pandemic along with California and Australia being torched... it doesn't bring up good memories. It's kind of triggering actually. The weather and climate change are just getting worse and worse.

 

It's not as simple as just getting worse and worse. Some regions may indeed face worse conditions, others may actually find their climate conditions improve. As long as we don't put our head in the sand and pretend it's all a bad dream we should be able to mitigate adverse effects on humans.

 

Quote

It's horrifying knowing I'm going to be living in a world like this. It's not going to change either I'm afraid. Net zero is impossible and America will likely never join in the efforts.

 

Sadly I agree with you, and the US withdrawing from many treaties and global endeavors is not going to help. Like withdrawing funding from the WHO - I'm not sure who that that was a good idea. (I think the WHO and other world nations should just stop taking to the US - let them go it entirely alone and see what happens. No funding, no information imparted)

 

Net zero is currently impossible for both technological reasons and lack of political and collective will power. However I am aware of tech being researched that will help mitigate the effects. So while we will not halt warming to 1.5 degrees in my opinion, I do think tech will be coming online that might help us keep it to 2 degrees. Of course that's only my opinion based on lay understanding.

 

Quote

I've known things were going to shit for a long time but growing up in a Christian religion... everything like this just puts me on edge.

 

Eh, things have been going to shit since the big bang. Imagine if you were a dinosaur 65 millions years ago! You'd be royally screwed! Even if climate change was as big a disaster as the very worst might proclaim (Don't mention the 10 year thing - that shit's taken out of context. I've read the research paper where it talked about the 10 years, and they were not saying the world was going to end) but assuming it was, it's only so bad because us frail humans would get wiped out. I'll bet the rest of the planet couldn't give two hoots and would probably be quite happening without us destroying and polluting the place.

 

So don't be put on edge. What's the very worse that could happen? You die? Gonna happen anyway so don't fret so much. Do what you can to help the planet and help others and help yourself.

[Hierophant]

On 9/19/2020 at 5:57 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Having studied the multitude of environmental challenges that face us I think the above statement is a wee bit optimistic. It's not just climate change that presents challenges. Do I think that anything will be as bad as the worst doomsayers say? No, but if we don't clean our act up it will still be bad. I bring glad tidings however. People and business are starting to wake up and take action. Too late or just at the right time? Only time will tell.

 

 

Strictly speaking, no the fires are not caused by climate change. But climate change does influence the climatic conditions in which the fires burn which can and does have positive effects on the fires which is not good for anything being burned.

 

Where did you get the information about people in Australia thinking that controlled burns were a bad idea? What happened is multifaceted. They had a long dry spell, they didn't have conditions suitable for burn off, warmer temperatures contributed to the severity, and the climate change denying (though possibly reversing their position) current government under that dip shit Morrison cut funding and ignored the fire chiefs warnings. Then they blamed it on the Green Party the bunch of wankers! Meanwhile Morrison offered thoughts and prayers to the victims like they do in the US.

 

 

Some links and studies about the impact of climate change on wildfires.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2019/07/wildfires-and-climate-change-whats-the-connection/

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/australia-wildfires-climate-change

https://nhess.copernicus.org/preprints/nhess-2020-69/

 

I cannot remember exactly where I saw or heard that environmentalist in Australia advocated the prevention of controlled burns which worsened the fires there. Maybe it was some hearsay and I didn't dig into.

 

I don't deny climate change, if I came off that way. I certainly think it is a thing, but I do question the alarmist language. Not that it is all propaganda, but I think some of it is because people react to alarmist language opposed to warnings, and that is what the environmentalist want. I suppose I am an environmentalist, I want us to do better and I think we can, but I am not going to lose my lid over it. It's like you said, I don't get on edge about it because I don't know exactly what is going to happen so all I can do is what I think is practical and pitch in where I can.

[LogicalFallacy]

8 hours ago, Hierophant said:

I cannot remember exactly where I saw or heard that environmentalist in Australia advocated the prevention of controlled burns which worsened the fires there. Maybe it was some hearsay and I didn't dig into.

 

Some nutcase probably did, but it certainly wasn't the Green's as was widely proclaimed by various groups, including the government. See here https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-there-really-a-green-conspiracy-to-stop-bushfire-hazard-reduction 

 

The interesting thing is that people are blaming the Greens for policies that have never been enacted because they've never been in government! The irony on that one!

 

8 hours ago, Hierophant said:

I don't deny climate change, if I came off that way. I certainly think it is a thing, but I do question the alarmist language. Not that it is all propaganda, but I think some of it is because people react to alarmist language opposed to warnings, and that is what the environmentalist want. I suppose I am an environmentalist, I want us to do better and I think we can, but I am not going to lose my lid over it. It's like you said, I don't get on edge about it because I don't know exactly what is going to happen so all I can do is what I think is practical and pitch in where I can.

 

I think I largely agree with you here, but I'm wary of using loaded language like "alarmist" because what I'm noticing these days is you try and talk about the facts and people start referring to you as "alarmist" because anytime someone talks about climate change in politics, some other moron stands up and says that's 'alarmist'. Some of the more recent studies I've been reading are indeed alarming. Some studies are showing that we've underestimated the speed at which the warming is happening. Some might call this alarmist, but if it's happening I'd call it reality. 

 

The same sort of thing has happened with Covid - politics have got involved and now its everything from the apocalyptical plague to a hoax.

[alreadyGone]

I'll avoid the climate concerns for the moment, but rather I would posit this regarding the virus and the perspective of time:

 

The COVID-19 virus is frightening because it has this enhanced capability to transmit itself across hosts. Primarily this is because a host can be infected and contagious some time before exhibiting any symptoms.

 

This is frightening because it's different than what we've known in the past from other infectious viruses such as the common flu.

 

The perspective to bear in mind though is that we humans have only been aware of the existence and nature of viruses for about 100 years.

It's nearly certain, given the random nature of viral genetic evolution that the same thing has happened any number of times throughout human history which probably killed many hundreds of thousands or more in any given instance.

We just never knew what was happening at the time.

 

And in the past when the average human lived only 30 - 40 years, and prior to modern travel and current population levels... most likely, almost certainly, when such viruses have no doubt appeared in the past, the contagion "burned itself out" within a region or continent and passed unnoticed and unknown in recorded history.

As @florduh expressed it so well in his/her post above:

"Our little window on time doesn't let us enjoy the ice age, black plague, Spanish flu, various natural disasters and political/religious purges that have taken place before. "

 

I'm not saying there's no need for alarm..

Humans are soft and vulnerable. There's ALWAYS cause for alarm.

But the ability to apply memory and a written record of past events, and from that to build and apply perspective, is one of the traits exclusive to humans and at the core of what separates us from the other animals.

 

 

[Myrkhoos]

On 10/23/2020 at 6:40 PM, alreadyGone said:

 

 

And in the past when the average human lived only 30 - 40 years

 

 

Hmm, that average can be misleading. There was a high infant mortality rate, so that means many die before 7 years old, but many live to over 70 - that was the norm at least in my great grandmother's village, which was almost without any modern technology or medicine at the time. Plus, wars killed a lot of young people from time to time. Famine and plagues also. What I mean to say is that average of 30-40 does not mean that without modern medicine people do not live to over 70. They frequently did, minus the periods of war/plagues. Old age was a common thing. Not as common as now, because many people of my parent's generation had two children or less. Like if you survived to 7 years, your chances to get old increased dramatically. What also increased is the level of chronically morbid old people whose lives is prolongued in agony for many years sometimes - I personally I do not really support that. Quantity of life without quality of life is some sort of mini version of Hell eternal living but in suffering. That's another question though, but one close to my heart because my grandmother of 87 is living her last years with advanced Parkinsons, unable to take care of herself, needing constant supervision. Her Parkinson meds and also antidepressants are also affecting her mind a little. I in no way have tge right to decide for her, but I would not want that on myself. I am.a supporter of right to die.

     By the way if you want apocalyptic style plagues in America, see what happened to the native americans when europeans arrived there.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, Myrkhoos said:

     By the way if you want apocalyptic style plagues in America, see what happened to the native americans when europeans arrived there.

Very true!

[alreadyGone]

Wildfire in the west is a complex topic.

Man has re-arranged much of the western US to suit himself, and that has both altered the natural patterns of forest renewal and put man's life and business in the path of it.

 

The complexity of current modern forest-management science and techniques is mind-boggling. And we often get it wrong.

 

I'm not saying categorically that climate and changes in climate are not a part of the current wildfires. I am saying that there's far more to the present situation and reality as we watch so much tragic destruction unfold. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

You got that right!  Everyone seems to want trees around their house for shade, aesthetics, etc.  But that is not a rational decision if you live in a forest.  Several years ago I had a friend who build a house in a forest in Arkansas, and he cut the trees back from his house several yards.  Growing up in Oklahoma with hardly any trees in the immediate area, I ask him why he cut all those beautiful trees.  You can guess his answer.  He was a rational thinker.   

[Myrkhoos]

12 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

Wildfire in the west is a complex topic.

Man has re-arranged much of the western US to suit himself, and that has both altered the natural patterns of forest renewal and put man's life and business in the path of it.

 

The complexity of current modern forest-management science and techniques is mind-boggling. And we often get it wrong.

 

I'm not saying categorically that climate and changes in climate are not a part of the current wildfires. I am saying that there's far more to the present situation and reality as we watch so much tragic destruction unfold. 

Modernity, by that I mean the industrial revolution seems to have been driven by do now, think later mentality. People invent stuff and rearrange things in nature without much thought to the larger, medium to long term effects.