God = Satan?

[ReducedtoAtoms]

I've been wondering about if there really is no demon and it's all just God. I've made a similar post/different website and now I have a little more closure to determine whether I sound logical or not.

 

What always bothered me is how if there were no evil then no one would have a reason to worship God. Christians love using free will as an excuse to say why evil is in the world but in my opinion having free will doesn't mean being evil.

 

Also if humans true nature is to be evil, (without free will) then doesn't that mean that's God's true nature too? Adam and Eve had no knowledge of evil, wasn't that going against their free will? In the bible KJV it says they became knowing of good and evil after they ate the fruit (or after they had the sexy times with Luci) They even figured that they were naked. Did they not have free will? And how did their free will work? 

 

Christians say when you die and go 'home' you won't have the desire to sin. So technically you don't have free will, but then why do angels rebel? Or why did angels rebel in the first place. Why did Satan truly believe what God was doing wasnt right? It just sounds nonsensical to hear that Satan believed he was powerful than god even as the bible describes him as sexy and strong. 

 

Why didn't the bible start with the downfall of satan? And how come our creator is somehow not responsible for evil though he's the creator of all evil.

 

And that human nature is naturally evil even though we were created in God's image. The same person who murdered babies, makes people suffer for eternity. Where's this peace and mercy people talk about? 

 

Now as a kid I've always hate the story Job is was so baffling to hear that God made a bet with the devil. (Deal with the devil) and then got mad when Job was sad. 

 

1. How was Satan able to be around god doesn't the bible say that demons can't stand his presence. Not only that there are other scriptures in the bible that mention demons being around god..since im on mobile I'm a little lazy to search it up.

 

2. What kinda god makes a bet on someone's life and then gets mad at them when they defy gods trueness. You made them suffer, did nothing about it, and then pull a "this is how you repay me?" Clearly god is the kind of person who wants you to worship when you're at your lowest no matter the cost.

 

Without evil no one will have to worship him, he won't get to play hero. So forget the whole free will, god needs evil. And God is evil and Christians have a hard time accepting the fact that their God is good/evil aka netural. But a good god wouldn't allow suffering just to say "oh well see, you have a job to spread my word and worship me or die in a fiery pit of hell." 

 

Also if evil was made by humans who the hell made Satan suddenly wanna go awol? Another force we don't know about?

 

If evil was made by humans is god suddenly so powerful? If evil were made by humans then why is Satan the first to fall? 

 

If humans are evil why must we repent againat sin against satan? 

 

And so since Satan is responsible for all evil, why hasn't god trapped him yet or defeated him? The response I get out of this is always the same. "God wants more people to turn to him." 

 

.....huh? 

 

Are you know admitting that without evil people wouldn't turn to God? Why is it so bad that taking away evil takes away the urge to sin if that's what going to heaven is all about.

 

And why does Satan whole ability to destroy everything matter more than the lIves of millions. Of people who just wanted love but now they wake up in a fiery lake begging for the pain to stop as if they haven't suffered enough of earth? 

 

So what's the point of this? Why would god let his cough cough alter ego run wild and destroy everything but put humans in the dirt for worshiping an idol. Doesn't dying go against their free will?

 

And God doesn't even kill satan he just locks him up in hell which ngl he could've done that a long time ago. 

 

Therefore evil is still around, and the fact that satan never decides to go back to god because he's just not supposed too? What? 

 

The concept of hell also just ugh. I've wasted enough tears and headaches thinking about it.

 

So you're telling me you die didn't believe in a supernatural being and you suffer in hell. Now the bible says Jesus will return to those lost in the fire and give them and second chance...

 

Suffering = trauma and it's easy to control someone or make them feel guilt when they're suffering so ofc wen Jesus comes back people are gonna be so eager to change.

 

After suffering you're gonna convince yourself you deserved this, you should've worshipped god now that you got a taste of his wrath you're never gonna go back.

 

Hell just breaks you and God once again comes from the light and saves you.  

 

And going back to my original statement because I can never organize my points. Why is Satan so powerful??? He's OP. Somehow on the same level of God. 

 

And now the holy trinity. The father and spritit are both the same no matter how you slice it. I know the father son and spirit are all the same but I mean literal.

 

Let's replace spirit with satan and it fits perfectly. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Yep.  To my way of thinking, if he actually existed, God is not perfect.  His creation was not perfect, or part of it would NOT have become Satan and turned on him.  It is all a bunch of gibberish. 

[mwc]

5 hours ago, ReducedtoAtoms said:

I've been wondering about if there really is no demon and it's all just God. I've made a similar post/different website and now I have a little more closure to determine whether I sound logical or not.

 

What always bothered me is how if there were no evil then no one would have a reason to worship God. Christians love using free will as an excuse to say why evil is in the world but in my opinion having free will doesn't mean being evil.

 

Also if humans true nature is to be evil, (without free will) then doesn't that mean that's God's true nature too? Adam and Eve had no knowledge of evil, wasn't that going against their free will? In the bible KJV it says they became knowing of good and evil after they ate the fruit (or after they had the sexy times with Luci) They even figured that they were naked. Did they not have free will? And how did their free will work? 

 

Christians say when you die and go 'home' you won't have the desire to sin. So technically you don't have free will, but then why do angels rebel? Or why did angels rebel in the first place. Why did Satan truly believe what God was doing wasnt right? It just sounds nonsensical to hear that Satan believed he was powerful than god even as the bible describes him as sexy and strong. 

 

Why didn't the bible start with the downfall of satan? And how come our creator is somehow not responsible for evil though he's the creator of all evil.

 

And that human nature is naturally evil even though we were created in God's image. The same person who murdered babies, makes people suffer for eternity. Where's this peace and mercy people talk about? 

 

Now as a kid I've always hate the story Job is was so baffling to hear that God made a bet with the devil. (Deal with the devil) and then got mad when Job was sad. 

 

1. How was Satan able to be around god doesn't the bible say that demons can't stand his presence. Not only that there are other scriptures in the bible that mention demons being around god..since im on mobile I'm a little lazy to search it up.

 

2. What kinda god makes a bet on someone's life and then gets mad at them when they defy gods trueness. You made them suffer, did nothing about it, and then pull a "this is how you repay me?" Clearly god is the kind of person who wants you to worship when you're at your lowest no matter the cost.

 

Without evil no one will have to worship him, he won't get to play hero. So forget the whole free will, god needs evil. And God is evil and Christians have a hard time accepting the fact that their God is good/evil aka netural. But a good god wouldn't allow suffering just to say "oh well see, you have a job to spread my word and worship me or die in a fiery pit of hell." 

 

Also if evil was made by humans who the hell made Satan suddenly wanna go awol? Another force we don't know about?

 

If evil was made by humans is god suddenly so powerful? If evil were made by humans then why is Satan the first to fall? 

 

If humans are evil why must we repent againat sin against satan? 

 

And so since Satan is responsible for all evil, why hasn't god trapped him yet or defeated him? The response I get out of this is always the same. "God wants more people to turn to him." 

 

.....huh? 

 

Are you know admitting that without evil people wouldn't turn to God? Why is it so bad that taking away evil takes away the urge to sin if that's what going to heaven is all about.

 

And why does Satan whole ability to destroy everything matter more than the lIves of millions. Of people who just wanted love but now they wake up in a fiery lake begging for the pain to stop as if they haven't suffered enough of earth? 

 

So what's the point of this? Why would god let his cough cough alter ego run wild and destroy everything but put humans in the dirt for worshiping an idol. Doesn't dying go against their free will?

 

And God doesn't even kill satan he just locks him up in hell which ngl he could've done that a long time ago. 

 

Therefore evil is still around, and the fact that satan never decides to go back to god because he's just not supposed too? What? 

 

The concept of hell also just ugh. I've wasted enough tears and headaches thinking about it.

 

So you're telling me you die didn't believe in a supernatural being and you suffer in hell. Now the bible says Jesus will return to those lost in the fire and give them and second chance...

 

Suffering = trauma and it's easy to control someone or make them feel guilt when they're suffering so ofc wen Jesus comes back people are gonna be so eager to change.

 

After suffering you're gonna convince yourself you deserved this, you should've worshipped god now that you got a taste of his wrath you're never gonna go back.

 

Hell just breaks you and God once again comes from the light and saves you.  

 

And going back to my original statement because I can never organize my points. Why is Satan so powerful??? He's OP. Somehow on the same level of God. 

 

And now the holy trinity. The father and spritit are both the same no matter how you slice it. I know the father son and spirit are all the same but I mean literal.

 

Let's replace spirit with satan and it fits perfectly. 

     Yep, you've covered most of the highlights.  Free will is a flimsy excuse.  When I went through this I would try to say that free will is not the freedom to choose among all imaginable choices but simply the freedom to choose among the available choices.  So this god could had omitted the "evil" aspect and everyone could have chosen just fine from all the choices that existed.  Just like choosing desert.  Would you like cake or pie?  Both are good choices.  You don't need to add a third, sort of secret, poison option for a true set of choices.  Nor does adding this danger make anyone really "appreciate" or "understand" the cake and pie options any better.  It's unneeded.  You're just letting people poison themselves for no real reason and then blaming those victims for choosing an option you provided.

 

     To also add to what you said, people will also try to tack on the idea that god is the father and we need all this to grow and mature like real parents do with their kids.  But that fails since children need to learn in order to do without their parents.  That's the natural order.  However, the religion says we'll die and be with god.  We'll be dependent.  So there's no need for any of this sort of education.  We'll return to a state where our choices are once again limited and having to exist separate from god is not possible.  Using free will to live and learn to realize we want to give up our ability to utilize free will is really what this boils down to.  It's not a lesson in respecting free will.  It's a lesson to demonstrate you really don't want it.  A "be careful what you wish for."

 

     Anyhow, for some amount of history this god was both the source of good and evil.  At some point it seems concepts from Zarathustrianism entered in and god started to be the source of those things that were good and another force because the source of evil.  This really wasn't Satan, per se, since this guy is more of an agent (an angel) that tests people on behalf of god (since this god wasn't omniscient).  This is why Satan could be with god in Job.  Satan's whole job was to ensure Job was loyal to god by testing him.  It makes no sense through the lens of xianity (why god would let his enemy do this is strange but a monarch testing a subject's loyalty is cruel but more understandable).

 

     You're on the right path with all this.  Keep thinking it through and you'll see how flimsy the whole thing really is.

 

          mwc

 

[TABA]

Beings like Satan were assumed to exist by cultures that needed an explanation for why bad things happened.  This was at a time in human history when the only possible explanation for why complex things existed was that a powerful being created them.  A god.  So you had a god who created all the good things.  But what about the bad things?  Some cultures developed the idea that there were good gods and bad gods, fighting it out with humans as recipients of their benevolence or malice, depending on which deity was dominant at that moment.  In Judaism originally, bad things only happened to people who disobeyed God. There was no powerful godlike evil entity the way Christians today think of Satan.  In that era, the concept of “Satan” was quite different from the modern concept: a “satan” was an agent sent by god to challenge and test people.   This satan was a tool used by God, not his mortal enemy as he later became.  
 

Later in Jewish history, beliefs were influenced by neighboring cultures, especially those of Babylon and Persia during and after the Babylonian Captivity around 500 BCE.  Jewish thought started to develop the concept of Satan as a near-godlike figure acting in opposition to God and making his people suffer even when they were doing God’s will. So the concept of Satan evolved through the centuries, as in fact the idea of Hell evolved from a shadowy underworld where the dead had a kind of boring semi-existence, up to the Hell of Dante’s inferno and the Christian imagination.  
 

Seen this way, Satan and Hell are so obviously human inventions needed to explain how the world works.  As is the idea of a personal god who desires our worship, answers prayers etc.  

 

The development of Satan and Hell through the ages is described very well in this book.  It would tie together the ideas you have already developed   

 

https://www.amazon.com/Birth-Satan-Tracing-Devils-Biblical-ebook/dp/B00OO199EY/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=the+birth+of+satan&qid=1606134891&sr=8-3