"spirits"... human, the Holy Spirit, ghosts and demons: is there such thing as a spirit?

[Brothermario]

To ask for examples of how God has changed human history and humanity is a serious question? Really?

 

Atheists and agnostics have charitable foundations, millions of humanitarian volunteers, are the stalwarts of human rights?

 

The Resurrection didn’t influence Western Civilization?

 

The Printing Press was one of the greatest scientific achievements in the advancement of humanity. What do you think it first printed?

 

Yes. Let’s have a discussion why you ex-Christians may be just wounded people being emotional and bigoted, and not the least bit intelligent at all.

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, Brothermario said:

To ask for examples of how God has changed human history and humanity is a serious question? Really?

 

Atheists and agnostics have charitable foundations, millions of humanitarian volunteers, are the stalwarts of human rights?

 

The Resurrection didn’t influence Western Civilization?

 

The Printing Press was one of the greatest scientific achievements in the advancement of humanity. What do you think it first printed?

 

Yes. Let’s have a discussion why you ex-Christians may be just wounded people being emotional and bigoted, and not the least bit intelligent at all.

 

Thank you for providing something besides an assertion. Neither God nor an (actual) resurrection have changed human history or humanity, imo. A fictional story that gullible people have believed for 2000 years has been part of the development of western civilization. 

 

But along with whatever great stuff that religious people attribute to their imaginary friend, there's also stuff like the Crusades, The Inquisition, church leaders who are sexual predators, and brainwashed people abusing their children for daring to not follow religious teachings.

 

Science has also helped the development of western civilization. I do believe that religion does provide something useful to humanity, but science has provided a whole lot more. 

 

The printing press is a fantastic achievement of man. The bible was the first book printed, yes. Thank goodness the smart phone with an internet connection can provide instant rebuttal to the bible. 

 

Why do you care so much about Christianity and the Bible? Are you a Christian pretending not to be? Would you care to share your belief system? 

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

.

[Myrkhoos]

 

     Historically speaking, your examples of influence of the Ressurection story and the influence of the Bible through the printing press are NOT evidence of God. They are evidence of the influence of Christian religion in the history of humanity. Nobody here doubts the influence of those stories on world history, not just western European History. If one takes into account Islam with its spin on the abrahamic ideas, judeo christian ideas have today the largest number of adherents and have influenced probably all continents is massive ways. But their historical influence says nothing about their truth value.    Belief in God/gods is an all present phenomena from what I can see and has and is influencing the majority of humankind, both geographically and on a timeline since at least any trace of recorded history. Nobody with a modicum.of education would dispute the influence of belief in Gods. But those are humans, in normal human action. Belief in stalinism has influenced a lot of recent history, that does not make Stalin's ideas true. 

        I also repeat what I have said. I cannot, at this point, prove or disprove or assertion that you had a real spiritual exp. However I tend to prefer the neurobiological explanation. I do not hold with it with certainty.

 

[sdelsolray]

Brothermario Casserole

 

1 lb Classic Projection

6 oz Narcissism

2 oz Hubris infused with Arrogance or Condescendance (your choice)

5 oz Essence of “I’m Special and You’re Not”

3 oz Claims of Special Reference

Add Denial as needed

Dashes of Informal Logical Fallacies

Sprinkle with Hate and Anger to taste

 

Mix all ingredients well, bake for 20-30 years.  Serves one.

[midniterider]

P1: There are 1.2 billion Hindus.

P2: Hinduism has had a massive impact on India.

 

C. Therefore Shiva is real and you should worship him...in addition to BibleGod , who has had a massive impact on the West...and Allah, who has had a massive impact on the Mideast...and the Kami of Japan...

 

or is this maybe an appeal to popularity?

[sdelsolray]

13 minutes ago, midniterider said:

P1: There are 1.2 billion Hindus.

P2: Hinduism has had a massive impact on India.

 

C. Therefore Shiva is real and you should worship him...in addition to BibleGod , who has had a massive impact on the West...and Allah, who has had a massive impact on the Mideast...and the Kami of Japan...

 

or is this maybe an appeal to popularity?

 

Brothermario is using an appeal to popularity to claim causation, so it's actually an informal logical fallacy with a side salad of mere assertion.  It appears Brothermario is well practiced.

 

[alreadyGone]

Aw now..

 

We're all in this together... as I've heard it this past year anyway.

First I was aware of that myself.  Could have been useful over time..

 

If a "spirit" entity is conferred with titles and all, declared omnipotent and all-powerful..   I dunno. What do you think?

 

I think we probably need to get it right.

Some of us have less time remaining than others.

That's what's been bothering me.

[Brothermario]

I wasn’t providing “evidence of God”. You guys are having a hard time understanding the simple concept of how the greatest achievements in our lives take the greatest efforts. I could no more give to you a life with God than I could make you a graceful dancer. You stumble about tripping over yourselves and lose any appreciation for a ballet.

 

 I was responding to this .net’s demented attacks on all religion because you people have had bad experiences in a particular religion.

 

It takes a special kind of stupid to think that humanity will intellectually lift itself above selfishness and evil. Does not a child still die from hunger every three minutes? Is not some women probably getting raped right now? Is wealth shared or stolen away at the top? How many “reasons” can we come up with to justify not being generous with our time and money?

 

Having a personal bad religious experience (though I doubt many of you have even had one) is one thing. Creating a .net against Christianity and handing it over to whiny pissants with emotional problems and glib intellects is another. I read only one of the articles on the main page, and it ended with, I think (the writing was so bad I’m not sure), the writer wanting to ask a believer in God about giving God a blowjob.

 

Some of you seem level-headed. But none of you seem to be heading anywhere important.

 

I can’t believe I have to say this, but you’ll never find God when you keep telling yourself and everyone else that he can’t be found.

[sdelsolray]

This one is also in denial.  I hadn't noticed that before.  I've revised the recipe above accordingly.

[Astreja]

2 hours ago, Brothermario said:

To ask for examples of how God has changed human history and humanity is a serious question? Really?

 

As things currently stand, it would be far better to rephrase as "examples of how belief in a god has influenced human history."  There is no credible evidence for your purported god, but there's plenty of evidence for humans believing in gods.

 

(It's also pointless to speak of "changing" history, as history itself is created on a moment-by-moment basis and does not go into reverse and try alternate paths forward.)

[Astreja]

15 minutes ago, Brothermario said:

It takes a special kind of stupid to think that humanity will intellectually lift itself above selfishness and evil.

 

"Stupid" or not, I see enough value, enough kindness, enough goodness in humanity to think that such a thing is possible.  It's also the only path forward.  Either we do clean up our act as a species, or we all die.  I am firmly of the belief that there is no such thing as life after death, and that this is the only chance we get.

[Myrkhoos]

I reaaaaly wanted to resist saying this. Reaaaly. But how many ti.es can one turn the other cheek?

       Brothermario should be ignored probably. If anything spiritual is going on, by his reactions, he is in communion with the devil , not God. His comments show little to no wisdom, no humility, no compassion, but a lot of flat out vain glory and convoluted discourse. 

        May you be healed of whatever ails you brother mario! 

       

[Myrkhoos]

19 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

"Stupid" or not, I see enough value, enough kindness, enough goodness in humanity to think that such a thing is possible.  It's also the only path forward.  Either we do clean up our act as a species, or we all die.  I am firmly of the belief that there is no such thing as life after death, and that this is the only chance we get.

I think your point is true because of modern technology. The most evil guy could only do so much without bioweapons and nukes.  Otherwise, humanity could well continue with all the rapes and killings. 

       By the way, it depends on what you mean by selfish. The most selfish man alive, interested only in his own wellbeing, but rationally sophisticated, would still prefer a cooperative environment. It gives the best chance at wellbeing while minimizing chance for suffering. People think psychopaths are smart. The serial killers aren't. They are just very sick people, controled by their cravings. Even altruism, without wisdom, is damaging. 

       Anyway, given the amount of vitriol BrotherMario has written, his God xp did not seem to relieve him of selfishness either.

     

[midniterider]

30 minutes ago, Brothermario said:

I can’t believe I have to say this, but you’ll never find God when you keep telling yourself and everyone else that he can’t be found.

 

To find the non-existent you must first pretend that it exists. 

 

Reality though is pretty self-evident. 

[Brothermario]

How can there be two Gods?

 

And how can God reveal himself perfectly without destroying our free will and cultural heritage?

 

“God is Spirit” because knowing God perfectly is not our reality here and now. Becoming who we choose to become by exercising our free will and rising above our lower nature is our reality here and now.

 

In a word, it is our time to shine.

 

However, whether we choose to be aware of it or not, it is only with God’s help that there can be no limit to how much we can shine. Alone we can do nothing. Human history tells this story.

 

Zeus, Shiva, and all the 3,000 or so names of God throughout human history are all names of our only God helping us become who we choose to become.

 

But not all the names, the revelations, of our only God are equal.

 

It is completely logical that one revelation out of all the revelations is the most powerful because it is the most true.

 

It is said that God gave to himself the greatest name and chose to reveal himself most truthfully in human history at the “Fullness of Time”.

 

And it is said that great people born before this time longed to see this time, but did not see it.

 

How lucky are we.

[alreadyGone]

2 hours ago, Brothermario said:

.... You guys are having a hard time understanding the simple concept of how the greatest achievements in our lives take the greatest efforts. ....

Wow.

 

(!)

I would have that discussion with you.

Really, I would devote time and circumstance to having that damn discussion.

I would take that meeting.

 

Just ain't going there online.

(and I'm not actually proposing that "we talk")

And there is the dilemma... for me at least. Just too personal for here.

 

But really man.... none of us knows....... that?

I wish I knew which cute emoji thingy would be appropriate here, or if...

 

 

 

[alreadyGone]

20 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

...... May you be healed of whatever ails you brother mario! 

       

With this I certainly agree.

May we all.

[alreadyGone]

21 hours ago, Brothermario said:

Atheists and agnostics have charitable foundations, millions of humanitarian volunteers, are the stalwarts of human rights?

 

The entire fabric and history of charity and charitable societies was almost totally decimated over time by government efforts to administer the common weal to ensure the bottom end of society is propped "up" to a level which enables some peace and stability for all.

And streets that don't look like L.A., S.F., or Seattle.

 

Across the 19th century and well into the 20th in America there were many many many non-church local aid societies and locally-administered charities.

Most small towns, as they grew from village to town had at least one and often more charities. For farm families when the man of the family is disabled or killed, local aid societies for the elderly, etc.

 

Residents and natives of the town commonly referenced the charities to which he and his wife contributed and helped administer.

It was a bragging-rights thing. A way for a successful man to tell his neighbors in the next town over that he had made it.

People presented their towns in the same way.. as one talking-point re: "we've made it!".

 

In the larger cities it was the same but with far greater variety. 

Homes to shelter country girls come into the city for modern jobs, etc.

Homes for unwed mothers.

Various charities for veterans.

 

All of this eventually evaporated when the federal government took such a scale in the administration of charitable acts and entitlements that it swallowed everything over time.

Except the Salvation Army.

 

Even in a state of apostasy, the Salvation Army is one Christian charity to which I'll gladly donate.

 

 

 

 

[Astreja]

14 minutes ago, Brothermario said:

How can there be two Gods?

 

Why not two gods? Or three?  Or nine billion?

 

Why not zero gods, but nine billion names expressing different aspects of a non-directed, insentient reality?

 

Quote

And how can God reveal himself perfectly without destroying our free will and cultural heritage?

 

"Cultural heritage"?  Why should we bind ourselves to any particular version of the past, let alone value the past over the present?  My own "heritage," such as it is, bears only a vague resemblance to that of my parents and grandparents, and I wouldn't trade places with any of them.

 

Quote

Alone we can do nothing. 

 

Bull-fucking-shit.  Literally everything that humans have accomplished is because of the efforts of humans, not gods.  We've been "alone" all along.

 

Quote

How lucky are we.

 

Yes, religion is finally fading into irrelevance.  The more supernatural shackles we discard, the better.  Praise the Internet, where religions come to die!

[midniterider]

18 minutes ago, Brothermario said:

It is completely logical that one revelation out of all the revelations is the most powerful because it is the most true.

 

It is said that God gave to himself the greatest name and chose to reveal himself most truthfully in human history at the “Fullness of Time”.

 

So you're a Christian. Or some personal subset of the religion of the Christian bible. Got it. 

[Astreja]

1 minute ago, midniterider said:

 

So you're a Christian. Or some personal subset of the religion of the Christian bible. Got it. 

Because of the monastery connection, possibly some variety of Catholic.

[alreadyGone]

 

If anything I've witnessed across an adult lifetime can convince me that there is in fact such thing in reality as "a spirit", or "a soul", its this:

 

 

 

This blessed creature makes me want to be a better person.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 hours ago, Brothermario said:

To claim that God is impossible to know because human beings have so many differing opinions about God is a logical fallacy.

No True Scotsman fallacy: "y'all never had a real experience with god like I did"

 

False Equivalence fallacy: "questioning the existence of god based on the lack of testable evidence with repeatable results is equal to judging god based on what people say about him."

 

Strawman fallacy: "god can't be found in the bible," when the original statement was that we accepted the default of unbelief based on a study of the scripture AND the history,  theology, etc. of the religion.

 

Ad hominem fallacy: "y'all are bigots."

 

Argument from Authority: "I know a guy for the monastery and he says..."

 

Argument from Authority/No True Scotsman: "I have two college degrees and firsthand experiences of God like you have only read about."

 

Mere Assertion fallacy: "God was the greatest thought yesterday and will be the greatest thought today, qualitatively."

 

Self-owned fallacy: "Logical fallacies are always the uneducated skeptic’s go-to talking point."

[sdelsolray]

21 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No True Scotsman fallacy: "y'all never had a real experience with god like I did"

 

False Equivalence fallacy: "questioning the existence of god based on the lack of testable evidence with repeatable results is equal to judging god based on what people say about him."

 

Strawman fallacy: "god can't be found in the bible," when the original statement was that we accepted the default of unbelief based on a study of the scripture AND the history,  theology, etc. of the religion.

 

Ad hominem fallacy: "y'all are bigots."

 

Argument from Authority: "I know a guy for the monastery and he says..."

 

Argument from Authority/No True Scotsman: "I have two college degrees and firsthand experiences of God like you have only read about."

 

Mere Assertion fallacy: "God was the greatest thought yesterday and will be the greatest thought today, qualitatively."

 

Self-owned fallacy: "Logical fallacies are always the uneducated skeptic’s go-to talking point."

 

I suspect he is not here to learn.