Jan 20,2021

[mwc 2,265]

On 1/11/2021 at 9:18 PM, Mrjukes21 said:

thank you guys for my help. i want to get mental help but the thing is im really old and its not safe for me to go outside so i need to find an alternative. ill tell you guys this though: before covid 19 started my life was slowly getting better and coming back to normal like it was when i was very young. but ever since covid 19 hit ive been worrying constantly and my ocd fears are coming back since im not doing anything and all i do is just watch news. i dont watch cnn though as they exaggerate too much. 

     Here's a new news site for you:  Happy News

 

          mwc

 

[Weezer 1,088]

On 1/11/2021 at 11:18 PM, Mrjukes21 said:

 

 i want to get mental help but the thing is im really old and its not safe for me to go outside so i need to find an alternative. 

 

Go to INTRODUCTIONS.  There is a new post there by Andrew, who is advertising low income therapy for those wrestling with religious issues.  They offer it via media, so you won't have to leave home. Try them out, and come back and give us a report.

[LogicalFallacy 4,051]

5 hours ago, Weezer said:

Go to INTRODUCTIONS.  There is a new post there by Andrew, who is advertising low income therapy for those wrestling with religious issues.  They offer it via media, so you won't have to leave home. Try them out, and come back and give us a report.

 

Just a note - I've deleted that post. We don't accept people advertising services here save Dr Marlene Winell. 

 

Thanks

 

LF

[Weezer 1,088]

17 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Just a note - I've deleted that post. We don't accept people advertising services here save Dr Marlene Winell. 

 

Thanks

 

LF

 

Looking at Andrew's personal info, it looks like he has been lurking here for a while, but just recently made a post.  Looking at their website, I was a little concerned.  The words that came to mind are "pie in the sky", with a religious flavor.

[Hierophant 428]

Well, it is January 20th and we are all still here.

[TheRedneckProfessor 6,772]

9 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

Well, it is January 20th and we are all still here.

I'm not.

[Hierophant 428]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I'm not.

 

Are you speaking to us from outside the Matrix?

[florduh 5,807]

Not all here and not all there either.

[Joshpantera 3,125]

[Mrjukes21 34]

well there goes to show that the simpsons are full of shit

[Mrjukes21 34]

sorry guys for believing in such stupidity. but do you guys know how to get rid of christian relapses. theyve been getting on my nerves lately

[◊ Krowb ◊ 156]

12 minutes ago, Mrjukes21 said:

sorry guys for believing in such stupidity. but do you guys know how to get rid of christian relapses. theyve been getting on my nerves lately

 

Read the Bible 

 

It was my experience that reading the four gospels in one sitting back to back to back to back is what started me down the path of deconversion.  They don't mesh well, John especially.

 

Also, go back and look at how different god is portrayed in the Old Testament v. the New.  An unchanging god sure did have a change of heart.

Throw down the gauntlet and force the biblical records to accord with themselves and count the number of times it requires special pleading, incredible out of context interpretations, and ask why a perfect book for salvation has such a difficult time being understood.

 

Hope this helps and that's why we're here.

[Hierophant 428]

8 hours ago, Mrjukes21 said:

sorry guys for believing in such stupidity. but do you guys know how to get rid of christian relapses. theyve been getting on my nerves lately

 

It does happen, so you cannot beat yourself up too much. I do not know if it will be the same for you, but a big part of me deconverting was re-orientating myself to think differently. That does not mean I became a super skeptic and simply dismiss everything out of hand, but I did have a change in paradigm where I am only willing to exert belief, or rather, mentally commit to something probably being true if there is sufficient evidence to support it. If there is not sufficient evidence, then I do not think it warrants belief.

 

I will give you a recent example: I kept seeing posts, probably originating from QAnon folks, stating Trump had some master plan where he wanted to lose the election because he was going to start arresting people for corruption, yada yada yada. Originally there was one date, then when nothing happened that date, then it became another date because "he needed more evidence," or "Trump needs this to happen to know who the traitors are." From the beginning, I could smell the BS, it was getting deep. But the key point is that there was zero evidence to think any of this was true. One, I work in the government and I spent 21 years in the Army. From personal experience, I immediately knew there was no merit to such claims. Two, the fact that people kept moving the goalpost was a good indicator this was nothing more than wishful thinking on their part, the same kind of thinking you see in religious thought. I was there to see the final bubble burst whenever Biden was inaugurated. People who kept hoping, wishing this was true, finally became disillusioned whenever none of the "plan" ever happened. They never should have put their hopes in something that had zero evidence to support it, that is the inherent problem.

 

I recommended the following book, it sheds some light on the psychology of belief and how those who have invested time, energy, and resources into a belief are not likely to abandon it whenever something promised does not materialize, they often double down:

 

When Prophecy Fails

 

I also recommend you check out Aron Ra's series/book on The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism

 

These books helped me identify the pitfalls and thinking traps I would often fall into as a believer/apologist.

[Joshpantera 3,125]

9 hours ago, Mrjukes21 said:

sorry guys for believing in such stupidity. but do you guys know how to get rid of christian relapses. theyve been getting on my nerves lately

 

You should look into Hierophants book suggestion. 

 

This is a good learning experience, whatever the case. So you sort of believed or entertained a false prediction. So what? It happens. In the process you learned something about critical thinking. Which can apply to all aspects of life from religious, to political, philosophical, and scientific. His advise is very good. Start with evaluating the evidence. You've been burned before, that should make you more keen on not being burned again. 

 

The only thing I can add is to also use caution and not turn into a "pseudo-skeptic," which would be going overboard the opposite direction. Be a healthy skeptic, but don't over react and crawl into a shell of unhealthy, over skepticism. There's always a balance to be found with these sort of things. 

[Myrkhoos 302]

7 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

You should look into Hierophants book suggestion. 

 

This is a good learning experience, whatever the case. So you sort of believed or entertained a false prediction. So what? It happens. In the process you learned something about critical thinking. Which can apply to all aspects of life from religious, to political, philosophical, and scientific. His advise is very good. Start with evaluating the evidence. You've been burned before, that should make you more keen on not being burned again. 

 

The only thing I can add is to also use caution and not turn into a "pseudo-skeptic," which would be going overboard the opposite direction. Be a healthy skeptic, but don't over react and crawl into a shell of unhealthy, over skepticism. There's always a balance to be found with these sort of things. 

About skepticism. My current point is that it seems to me that all knowledge is probabilistic , under a foundation of skepticism of any absolutes. Meaning, I do not see any path to absolute certainty, or certain knowledge, but certain models and methods seem better than others. I cannot be sure we are not in a simulation by aliens, but in this world , me growing a tail tommorow is less likely than me growing fingernails.

        I still think that in the psychological cocktail of many groups, political, scientific or otherwise ,  a sense of certainty coupled with a heightened sense of community is one of the most potent drugs. 

[Joshpantera 3,125]

The above sounds like a healthy skepticism. There's no certainty at the base of reality. Those who think there is are deluded in that way. A challenge to prove certainty will illustrate the truth of uncertainty. And yet, some things are still more likely than others, as you say. This is the balance I'm referring to. 

 

The Simpsons thing is not likely to be true. But watching it play out just to see doesn't seem left field either. If it did come true, then we'd be facing the coincidence issue. Hopefully MrJukes21 can take all of this and approach the next similar situation that comes along with a healthy dose of skepticism, even if he's still interested enough to watch it play out, just in case.

 

There'll be more predictions and prophecies around the corner, they never seem to cease....

[Mrjukes21 34]

Thanks guys for your support I appreciate it. I know that you guys are doing your best to help me and I appreciate that. But you can’t expect me to be on you guys level of deconversion considering the fact that I was in Christianity for so long. I try my best everyday to change my mindset but everytime I try enjoying something that stupid Christian guilt gets in the way and I can’t enjoy anything anymore. Plus a voice in the desert is now stuck in my head and I don’t know how to get it out. I’ve got a lot on my plate but hopefully things will work out well

[Joshpantera 3,125]

3 hours ago, Mrjukes21 said:

Thanks guys for your support I appreciate it. I know that you guys are doing your best to help me and I appreciate that. But you can’t expect me to be on you guys level of deconversion considering the fact that I was in Christianity for so long. I try my best everyday to change my mindset but everytime I try enjoying something that stupid Christian guilt gets in the way and I can’t enjoy anything anymore. Plus a voice in the desert is now stuck in my head and I don’t know how to get it out. I’ve got a lot on my plate but hopefully things will work out well

 

Changing your thought processes takes time. That's all there is to it. But the more pour yourself into learning new things the broader your perspective should be. And the more your thinking process will continue to evolve and change. Some of the people talking to you were in churches not long ago. And have come this far already. 

[Weezer 1,088]

10 hours ago, Mrjukes21 said:

 

Thanks guys for your support I appreciate it.

 

Something else just occurred to me.  About the same time I walked out the church doors about 30 years ago, I also tapered off watching TV except for educational programs and 10 o'clock news.   Is it just a coincidence my sense of having inner peace has  increased?  Most of TV, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc is a vast waste land, similar to church services.  Now my inside "extra time"  is spent reading a wide variety of material, and posting here, and on a motorcycle trail riding forum thread I started a few years ago.  Since retiring I always have several "constructive" projects going, or making future plans for our next motorcycle ride.  My point is, get a life based on "concrete" reality, and things that you enjoy and are for the most part are constructive.  Being active and creative is what keeps you alive and at peace with yourself.  It boils down to doing things that help you feel worthwhile.   Not looking for some guru, or god, or forum, to "give" you the feeling.  Or avoid the bad feeling.

 

Get out of the "ruts" you are running in.   IT IS UP TO YOU TO CHOSE A DIFFERENT PATH IN LIFE!   And don't let any path become a rut.  There are always different forks in a path, so feel free to try a different one as you travel through life.  If you don't like it, you can always turn around and go back.  That is called "freewill".  Something your religion condemned. 

 

So why don't you decide to do something different, and we will be anxiously awaiting to hear what you decided.

 

P.S.  that was longer than I intended, but the thoughts kept coming to mind.

[Weezer 1,088]

I might add that I think the major turning point for me was when I stopped praying for a "Faith", and began praying for help to find truth.  That opened the door to all possibilities.  

[Wertbag 970]

On parallel with those thoughts, I have moved away from watching/reading the news. What I found was a mass heaping of depressing, death and destruction, but when you stop and think "how does knowing this help me? Is there anything I can do about this?" the answer was always sadness that didn't matter to me personally. Sure I now know boko horram are a horrible group of people who deserve to be wiped out, but I also know it won't be me doing that wiping. You need to ask whether that negativity is beneficial and I didn't find it to be. 

Same with the Covid stats. You can watch the death count climb daily and the articles about destroyed families but does the body count in other continents really matter to us? We need to know there is a virus and how serious it is but we don't need the individual stories of death and suffering that go with it.