Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Does anyone know what the double slit experiment is?


pittsburghjoe

Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

God is all future possible paths. An interference pattern requires all possible paths be taken at the same time, virtually.

 

I felt the same way as you at one time.  To try and fit a square peg in a round hole (omniscience v free will) I also thought that god had knowledge of all possible outcomes.  This is why I asked if you believed in a multiverse, where each is unique.  As you pointed out, this leads to an obvious problem as it would involved an infinite number of me (and you for that matter) in hell and heaven simultaneously, depending on the particular universe.

 

By your reckoning there is only universe and existence.  To say that god's knowledge is all future possible paths sounds deep, but is meaningless.  We can spitball all future scenarios, but at any decision point, in a single universe, the future becomes the past and the decision is past, never to be altered.  The die is cast afterwards as it were.  In our lifetimes we do not pursue all possible paths, much less simultaneously.  We pursue a single, specific path, for good or ill.

 

Do you follow? A god's knowledge of all future paths does not fit the meaning of omniscience.  Knowledge of the exact paths that will be chosen for all decision points in all times = ALL-knowing or perfect knowledge.  Knowledge of potential outcomes is a far lesser and more finite sort of knowledge.

 

How do you proceed?  If your conception of god is not coherent, then the rest of your thesis cannot follow.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you think omnipresence means?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TRP seems have it right, whenever pressed on the difficult/uncomfortable questions you either fail to answer or your attitude changes.  This is a good sign because these shifts in dialogue indicate you recognize there is a problem, daresay it, a potential fly in the ointment.

 

So omnipresent is generally understood to be in all places simultaneously.

 

You will find the deeper you think about the actual requirements for an omnigod the more issues that arise when you attempt to shoehorn this omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being (infinite as you have described it) into a particular religious tradition, which imposes very clear finite limitations.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope you take the time to reflect and study up on the areas that make you uncomfortable, we do not grow without challenging ourselves.

 

Now, back to the basic question at hand,  in your conception of god, is his knowledge:

  • lesser (all potential paths, but no knowledge of the actual paths that will be chosen till the end of time)
  • greater (all actual paths chosen till the end of time)

If you don't want to answer, I can't blame you.  The Calvinist v free will debate has been waging for centuries without god stepping in to clarify.  And I'm glad to see you recognize this presents a real problem for your basic framework.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Omnipresence is all possible paths taken at the same time, virtually. That makes God: Virtual, Vector, and Coherent. He has knowledge of all paths and which ones will be used ..this reality of the fallen uses a single path of all possible paths. It's decoherence ..wave collapse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm afraid I don't really follow all that.  My concern is the reality we share, the one in which we are common participants.  So this reality of the fallen (as you call it) will proceed along a certain path. You acknowledge this.  Your god's omniscience means he knows exactly which paths will be used in all time.  We live in a reality in which we do not know what tomorrow will bring, but your god knows exactly what it and all tomorrows will bring down the moment we first awake including our first thought and desire of the day.  This is what omniscience means.  We however, are finite creatures with a limited capacity and limited knowledge.  Unknown to us, but known your god, is every decision we will ever make.

 

Do you understand why this position is incompatible with free will?  Which appears to be another tenet of your belief structure.  For, to say the god offers us anything is illusory when the outcome was known before time began.  Our choice was decided for us long before we existed.  We, the objects of wrath as it were.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already answered this way back in the thread. God knowing what will happen does not put the apple in your hand. We have a choice, just because God knows what it will be doesn't change Free Will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I already answered this way back in the thread. God knowing what will happen does not put the apple in your hand. We have a choice, just because God knows what it will be doesn't change Free Will.

 

Except these positions are mutually exclusive to anyone not wedded to a system which requires both to simultaneously be true.

 

This is the rigged game situation.  We, unsuspecting, finite, and temporal creatures are thrust into a script where the outcome and movements are known by the author.  We may only proceed along a course determined for us, but not by us (i.e. pharaoh and Judas).  Some of us were predestined for reward . . .others were not.

 

By design, a rigged game involves the element of deceit.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are complaining that you are not God? boo hoo.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your discussion of scalar, quantum mechanics, etc... appear to be 21st century window dressing.  So far it has not assisted in resolving any of the core problems that have plagued the monotheistic conceptions of a god.

 

It's a new façade on an old building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

You are complaining that you are not God? boo hoo.

 

And again you are devolving the discussion - which is a sign we've struck a nerve. 

 

May our lurkers see the difficulty of the position you've placed yourself in.  You are arguing in favor of a god of deceit and not of love.  A god which chose prior to time to cast a die in which some would be rewarded and others . . . not.

 

You clearly believe yourself among the elect: a Paul, to my Pharaoh.  Neither man chose his fate, but were chosen for it.  A god that operates in this way has some very peculiar attributes, none of which are flattering.

 

I suggest you rethink cramming your omnigod conception into an existing religious framework.  Why exactly did you decide on Christianity for the framework?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said this before and I'll say it again. Let's say it was all planed out ..I don't care. Why? Because we are given the opportunity to eternal life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I said this before and I'll say it again. Let's say it was all planed out ..I don't care. Why? Because we are given the opportunity to eternal life.

 

I am honestly perplexed that you don't see the issue with those statements.

 

But let's not belabor the point. Someday, like I did, hopefully you'll realize the incompatibility of those two positions.

 

Your conception of god as a universal wave and coherence and some things re-cohering back to god and others . . .not, does not require Christianity. So what makes you think a new-agey sounding QM conception of an omnigod is part and parcel of Christianity? 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

You have zero chance of being saved if you don't believe in anything. Those people have Satan as their father.

Do you believe in a soul?

 

I, for one, do not believe in souls.  I believe that we are 100% physical, including our minds, which IMO are an emergent property of the electrical impulses in our brains.

 

And I have no interest whatsoever in "being saved," or in eternal life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

You are complaining that you are not God? boo hoo.

 

Jesus said we are gods. No problem there. 

Also the kingdom of God is inside me....so not sure why you're here trying to sell me what I already am.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
7 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I said this before and I'll say it again. Let's say it was all planed out ..I don't care. Why? Because we are given the opportunity to eternal life.

I would not want to live forever; and certainly not with a hideous fiend who, per his "plan," sent most of my friends and family to eternal conscious torment in hell, and manipulated me into betraying myself as the price of "salvation".  Just being in the presence of such a tyrannical despot would be hell, never mind being forced to worship the beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
8 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I already answered this way back in the thread. God knowing what will happen does not put the apple in your hand. We have a choice, just because God knows what it will be doesn't change Free Will.

 

Joe, why don't you put some time into slowing down and trying to take the content of this issue in. Let it sink in a little bit.

 

8 hours ago, Krowb said:

Do you understand why this position is incompatible with free will?  Which appears to be another tenet of your belief structure.  For, to say the god offers us anything is illusory when the outcome was known before time began.  Our choice was decided for us long before we existed.  We, the objects of wrath as it were.

 

A god knowing all future events and possible outcomes, means that it's NOT possible for anyone to deviate away from those events and all possible outcomes. You can not choose not NOT to kill someone, if the future is already DETERMINED that you will kill someone. A future that is already known, is a future that is already DETERMINED. It can't change. It's set in stone. No one is free to change anything. 

 

And if you are free to change things, those changes were ALSO foreknown by an all knowing god! The god would have to know that you would change something and NOT kill someone. The god, in any case, KNOWS whatever outcome will always be chosen. The free will aspect of choices, is merely an illusion and not real. Whatever decision is condensed on, whether to do or not do something, the god already knows what it will be. 

 

So the charade of people doing anything or believing anything, or disbelieving anything, is a charade in this scenario. It's a preknown, and therefore predetermined situation. And it DOES change free will, inherently...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are angry that you are not God. Being DETERMINED to an Infinite Creator is different than to us peasants.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I would not want to live forever; and certainly not with a hideous fiend who, per his "plan," sent most of my friends and family to eternal conscious torment in hell, and manipulated me into betraying myself as the price of "salvation".  Just being in the presence of such a tyrannical despot would be hell, never mind being forced to worship the beast.

 

Sin is disorder and finite ..it is impossible to be infinite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2021 at 12:48 AM, pittsburghjoe said:

So you are probably are wondering where I'm going with this. What I'm actually saying is that the double slit experiment is proof of sin.

 

Physicality is what happened after original sin. We were not physical beforehand. Adam and Eve suddenly knew they were naked because they were physical for the first time. We suffered a spiritual death ..not a physical one. Scalar started. This makes Sin the reason for the measurement problem. You need a closed scalar volume for entropy. Entropy is disorder. The non-physical doesn't use entropy. The spiritual universe is coherent. This reality of the fallen is decoherence.

 

Hello again Joe.  :)

 

I'm afraid that you and I are stuck on your initial claim, that the double slit experiment is a proof of sin.

 

You've declared that this experiment is obviously a scientific proof.

 

But I have provided evidence to show that the only proofs in science are those in mathematics.

 

There are no proofs in physics or any other branch of the sciences.

 

So, can you please commit yourself to accepting this fact?

 

If not, could you please cite some evidence to support your claim that this experiment is a proof?

 

Please confine yourself to only this issue and please don't ask further questions or raise other points.

 

You and I are stuck and we cannot move forward until this issue is resolved.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

::rolls eyes::

You think you're clever.

Sure, let me dig up a scientific paper stating sin is real.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
11 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

Sin is disorder and finite ..it is impossible to be infinite.

Unfounded assertions are unfounded... and asserted.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is all about eternal life. Eternal is infinite. Think about what is required to be infinite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

Anybody else getting bored with this asshat's claptrap?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For something to be infinite it needs to be in perfect order (Coherence).

This reality of the fallen is disorder (Decoherence). It is finite. You can't have an infinite number of anything physical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.