Did we really need a Jesus

[ReducedtoAtoms]

Noah, Moses, and every other name In the OT. When they died did they go to heaven or hell? I think heaven but, I thought humans were just doomed forever and didn't have a way to get to heaven at all before Jesus came in and paved that way. 

 

So let's just say Moses went to heaven without needing Jesus. So then God could just technically let people into heaven regardless of if they acknowledge Jesus's existence or not. 

 

Jesus was just a tool the guilt trips. I wonder what would happen if he wasn't in the bible. How would people feel about God then? 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

3 hours ago, ReducedtoAtoms said:

 

 I wonder what would happen if he wasn't in the bible. How would people feel about God then? 

 

Ask a Jewish person.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Originally, the Jews didn't really have an afterlife idea. Obedience to God was the way to have a blessed life on Earth. Other ideas of an afterlife were mixed in after the Babylonian exile where they picked up a lot of ideas and magic symbols like the "star of David", and wrote down their books of fables. Jesus teaching about things like hell would not have been accepted by his Jewish audience who likely would have accused him of trying to bring Roman and Greek ideas into Judaism, which doesn't have damnation. So it isn't likely that any of the stories about Jesus actually happened, but were intended to teach things like empathy for other people, in particular those who are poor or in need. Later it bloomed into a religion with a lot more Judaic rules tacked on that Jesus never mentioned. Paul, if he was even real, and the other apostles brought in teachings that they were familiar with from Moses and mixed those with the myth of the resurrection, and other stories that were tacked on to make it seem more full (Herod hunting down the new king; many raised from the dead after Jesus was crucified, etc).

 

The only things of value I find in his teachings are being kind, generous, forgiving, compassionate, empathetic, questioning authority that claims to speak for God, and being a neighbor to those that society rejects. The religious ideas get in the way of these things that create a better society. 

[alreadyGone]

19 hours ago, ReducedtoAtoms said:

.....Jesus was just a tool the guilt trips. I wonder what would happen if he wasn't in the bible. How would people feel about God then? 

 

Fuego said it so well.

 

What I would add is that human beings want a daddy/king/god/ruler.

In the absence of a god they will make one up.

 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

1 hour ago, alreadyGone said:

In the absence of a god they will make one up.

 

This was almost a direct quote from "Raised By Wolves", a sci-fi on HBOMax streaming. There the quote was from an android, something like "When people can't believe their luck, they invent a god to thank". I think it is also born of desperation for survival, pleading to the sky, moon, sun, soil, and then thanking after things go well. Simple and repeated all around the world. That's also the concept behind American Gods, though in that one, the belief makes the beings real so they have dozens of Jesus versions depending on the culture. 

[alreadyGone]

19 minutes ago, Fuego said:

 

... I think it is also born of desperation for survival, pleading to the sky, moon, sun, soil, and then thanking after things go well. Simple and repeated all around the world. ...

 

 

Well said, Fuego.

 

With this in mind, watch the people you encounter..

Observe their reasoning and apparent motivation.

You will see this played-out very clearly in so many aspects, so many situations.

 

It seems such a common, universal aspect of the human psyche.

 

[Freed]

Now way Hosea we did NOT ever NEED Jesus Christ. It's a huge mistake to let Him come in your heart.