Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[alreadyGone]

5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Do you think an all knowing God is a fool?

 

You say He's all-knowing.

The Bible says so.

Show me the evidence.

 

If you also tell me that he created human beings in His image, then my belief in him being "all-knowing" is pretty thin. I've known too damn many humans to swallow that.

[pittsburghjoe]

8 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

 

And there you see my own dellima.

The standard (Protestant anyway) Christian belief is, you are placed into this temporal life with what you have... a genetic lottery of sorts. Some are strong, some are weak. Things happen to you in this world. Random things, if you believe that all humans have "free will".  And for that reason, your life could end at any time.

You may step out on the street and a crack-head may cut your throat to take your wallet.

 

Your premise then is that through all that, it is my responsibility to maintain my faith intact until the unknowable indeterminate day of my demise.

My final score, my final grade on my permanent record then is based on my success in keeping that faith within me. And Jeusus warns in various ways that my faith must be unshakeable, inviolate, and that he will be checking it, carding me at the door of heaven.

 

Imagine..

'cause I can't.

 

 

 

 

It's not a big deal if you actually believe. You are making it sound more labor intensive that it actually is. 

[alreadyGone]

Just now, pittsburghjoe said:

 

It's not a big deal if you actually believe. You are making it sound more labor intensive that it actually is. 

 

You have had your life and experiences, I have had mine.

 

Tell me if you will please... are you a young person (man?)?  Middle-age?  Older?

[midniterider]

3 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Do you think an all knowing God is a fool?

 

Right, so if I dont TRULY love Jesus, he will know. He will know if I'm faking it. Real love cannot be forced or induced via fear. You cannot make me love Jesus and I cannot make myself love Jesus. So, I guess I'm screwed. 

[pittsburghjoe]

The point is that if you see the light you won't want to sin anymore. The love just goes with it. 

[pittsburghjoe]

Only a middle-aged man would post a water-boy video clip.

[midniterider]

4 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

It's not a big deal if you actually believe. You are making it sound more labor intensive that it actually is. 

 

I love my deceased parents but havent really thought about them much. I'm probably good with Jesus then. 

[alreadyGone]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

The point is that if you see the light you won't want to sin anymore. The love just goes with it. 

 

That and $2.75 will get you a cup of coffee.

The Bible says clearly that no matter what you want, you will sin.. again. And again, and again.

 

Tell me please, what precisely is "love"?

[midniterider]

2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

The point is that if you see the light you won't want to sin anymore. The love just goes with it. 

 

What is involved in seeing the light? 

 

I assume I have to pretend that Jesus is real (like I did 30 years ago), then read the bible, and more importantly , go to church because that is where most of the brainwashing occurs. Ya gotta get that weekly mental programming from some minister and sing songs. 

 

Seeing the light means pretending you believe in your imaginary friend until you ACTUALLY believe in your imaginary friend. 

[pittsburghjoe]

11 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

 

You say He's all-knowing.

The Bible says so.

Show me the evidence.

 

If you also tell me that he created human beings in His image, then my belief in him being "all-knowing" is pretty thin. I've known too damn many humans to swallow that.

 

God is all about infinity  ..his understanding is infinite.

[alreadyGone]

3 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

God is all about infinity  ..his understanding is infinite.

 

Yeah..

 

You appreciate science it seems..

You know what Lord Kelvin said, yes?

 

“When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”

 

 

The scientific world pretty-much considers that quote to be axiomatic, dogma even.

[midniterider]

I think we should discuss why Catholics aren't real Christians. My Pentecostal church people always had a distaste for them...a distaste for anything non-Pentecostal, actually.

[pittsburghjoe]

12 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

What is involved in seeing the light? 

 

I assume I have to pretend that Jesus is real (like I did 30 years ago), then read the bible, and more importantly , go to church because that is where most of the brainwashing occurs. Ya gotta get that weekly mental programming from some minister and sing songs. 

 

Seeing the light means pretending you believe in your imaginary friend until you ACTUALLY believe in your imaginary friend. 

 

If reading the Bible or going to Church is going to prevent you from turning back then don't do it. It is more important for you to believe. The Church is good for sacraments but anything is better than not believing.

 

I'm telling you to look into wave-particle duality ..and ask why?

[midniterider]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

If reading the Bible or going to Church is going to prevent you from turning back then don't do. It is more important for you to believe. The Church is good for sacraments but anything is better than not believing.

 

I'm telling you to look into wave-particle duality ..and ask why?

 

Belief can't be forced. I can say I believe, but I dont. I dont want to , either. 

[pittsburghjoe]

11 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

 

That and $2.75 will get you a cup of coffee.

The Bible says clearly that no matter what you want, you will sin.. again. And again, and again.

 

Tell me please, what precisely is "love"?

 

We are swimming in sin here.

 

Love is quantum entanglement. It is HOW we are to become one with God when this is over.

[pittsburghjoe]

6 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

 

Yeah..

 

You appreciate science it seems..

You know what Lord Kelvin said, yes?

 

“When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”

 

 

The scientific world pretty-much considers that quote to be axiomatic, dogma even.

 

You were already told to not come at me demanding numbers.

 

The core being you can't have direct evidence of God or it ruins the test.

[alreadyGone]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

We are swimming in sin here...

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but...  yeah.

I mean I still touch myself "down there" from time to time.

Old habits and all..

[alreadyGone]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

You were already told to not come at me demanding numbers.

 

The core being you can't have direct evidence of God or it ruins the test.

Fair enough... 

So you mean if God spoke to me, revealed himself, it would remove all doubt?

 

[midniterider]

 

[pittsburghjoe]

1 minute ago, alreadyGone said:

Fair enough... 

So you mean if God spoke to me, revealed himself, it would remove all doubt?

 

 

Obviously. It is different for those that already believe. 

[alreadyGone]

With that, I think it's time for a Miumiu break:

 

[Astreja]

Joe, you keep pushing the "just believe" angle.

 

What if you're like me, someone who finds the Bible mythology so ridiculous that I've never believed it?  The best I could do is pretend to believe, and I'm not going to do that because I would know that I'm just pretending.

 

This isn't something that just started.  Never in all my 63 years have I been able to cultivate genuine religious faith.

[Astreja]

3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

That is a matter of perception.  But the underlying implication of your statement is that i must not have seen the light because otherwise it would have blinded me to the beauty of life.

 

What a sad life you must lead.

 

That's what I'm seeing too.  Joe is so obsessed with avoiding hell that he's essentially given up on the real world and all its beauty.

 

I'm going to take my chances with "sin," and music, and kittens, and pretty sunsets.

[pittsburghjoe]

9 minutes ago, Astreja said:

Joe, you keep pushing the "just believe" angle.

 

What if you're like me, someone who finds the Bible mythology so ridiculous that I've never believed it?  The best I could do is pretend to believe, and I'm not going to do that because I would know that I'm just pretending.

 

This isn't something that just started.  Never in all my 63 years have I been able to cultivate genuine religious faith.

 

The Bible is a guide to help you pass the test.

[Astreja]

Just now, pittsburghjoe said:

 

The Bible is a guide to help you pass the test.

 

I read the Bible.  I found it utterly unconvincing.