revelation - the simplest answer is God does not exist

[physicslady]

Hi all, 

 

I'm glad I found this site and have been reading some posts the past few days.  I usually never post online as I'm a very private person, but I had a revelation on Monday that Christianity is false and actually leads people astray and causes them to waste their money, time and the only life they have.  Warning: this is really rambly because I'm writing on my phone and no space to organize. Sorry. 

 

So I got sick and had to "stay home" from work, i.e. not log in haha.  And I never read the news much (too depressing), but ever since covid-19, I have read the news, mostly cnn.com because it's free, almost every day.  I felt that I had to know the status of the virus in my area, the changing air quality due to fires and then finally the U.S. election and then the insurrection riot.  I was always astounded by the denial of the religious right of obvious truths like Trump abuses power, covid-19 is real, the election was absent of fraud and climate change is real.  And they would repeat weird arguments that had no basis in reality.  You could always tell they got the argument from someone else, they didn't seem to think for themselves.  The QAnon stuff was also disturbing.  

 

I asked myself this question: is there something about Christianity that predisposes people to deny reality, especially an unpleasant reality like climate change or systemic racism?  Did they have an incentive to deny the truth?

 

I read an account of a guy who escaped from QAnon.  It was like coming from a cult. He was depressed and reading on the internet and stumbled on it and went down the rabbit hole. He only got out when he realized the prophecies never came true, or if they did, they were so vague that it could be coincidence. 

 

I realized that as Christians we were trained to  "see God in everything".  So if anything good happened, it was God.  But if anything bad happened, it was God allowing suffering and we had to be patient in our prayers.  Turns out if you pray for everything (a spouse, a job, a house, getting into college), you'll probably get some prayers answered and some not, right? Whether the prayer is answered or not, Christianity says that God still exists.  So there's never a way to "prove" God doesn't exist.  And that's why you can't throw facts and science at evangelicals - they deliberately do not want to listen. They are trained to tune it out. 

 

Aside: I grew up in a protestant non- denominational evangelical megachurch.  My dad's family has members who are eccentric conspiracy theorists or weirdly religious, so I think it runs in the family as slight mental illness. 

 

I studied engineering for undergrad and physics for grad school, so I have a lot of science education. I even taught at community college and at a university for a bit.  I always thought the big bang theory and the spontaneous organization of atoms into RNA or life that can reproduce was a sign of God.  Plus I had had many prayers answered over the years.  I have read the entire bible multiple times.  

 

I had a religious reawakening when in college and when I was 25, which caused me to quit my PhD.  Anyway, after having a loving community at one small church, my husband and I moved to another area and tried different churches.  They were all nice at first and then turned hypocritical, like they were just using us as volunteers and tithers.  I decided that a lot of Christians were bad, but that was the worldly influence of the rich area we were in and Jesus was still worth following.  We came to a church that was passionate about social justice, had a female pastor who was actually genuine.  I thought we finally found a home. 

 

-------- sorry this is so long.  Thanks for reading!------- it keeps going....

 

For a long time I have been thinking that many megachurches exist because corrupt Christians seek power, fame and money.  Even many small churches that I attended seemed jealous that they weren't big.  I thought that was hypocritical. 

 

Anyway, I realized I was guilty of the same deluded thinking of the QAnon religious right people - I had used coincidence to stand in for evidence, my "faith" was really a suspension of logic and reasoning.  

 

Naturally, my next step was to figure out the implications of 1. Christianity is made up and 2. My life without God.   Even as i was flooded with relief of the truth and the freedom to no longer use convoluted copied arguments to explain why God allowed such suffering in the world or his stance on the LGBTQ+ community, I was also hit by the sad reality that heaven does not exist, my "friend" that I'd talk to all the time was emptiness, and prayers are nonsense.  And that I'd wasted many years of my life, decades, plus lots of money, on a delusion.  I believed because I didn't want to face the truth that life is random, painful, and fleeting.  If I left the church, my family and friends would be devastated and I might lose them.  And how was I going to raise my kids?  What about my marriage?  I had always thought God brought my husband and I together and I settled for someone less intelligent and ambitious because I thought ambition was futile and worldly.  It is true that ambition alone cannot make you happy.  But I missed the company of my witty intellectual curious friends from college and grad school.  They were so full of life and fascinating conversations.  

 

I'm also a musician and amateur song writer.  I went through a phase where I really loved Christian music, but then I got burned badly by the random politics of worship teams and started getting triggered by worship music.  Then I realized secular music is SO MUCH BETTER ARTISTICALLY and I actually felt guilty about that.  I felt guilty about my ambitions.  I worried that I would burn myself out trying to be successful in my career or trying to impress other people.  I can't believe Christianity made me feel guilty about so many good things. It robbed me. 

 

 Anyway, I am feeling both freaking awesome to be free of religion and yet scared and alone and ALSO I am most worried and concerned for all my family and friends who have given their lives to a stupid money sucking delusion!!  And I want to deconvert all of them, but I know it will be traumatic for them and probably make them hate me.

 

It sounds weird, but I feel like the most ethical moral thing for me to do is to tell them the truth and beg them not to waste the only life they've got.  I literally cried multiple times when I realized how many dumb irrational decisions my family and friends have made and are still making based on "faith".  My crazy charismatic friend moved to Redding because her husband got a job at Bethel.  When they let him go (they have three and a half kids and just bought a house wtf heartless) because of the pandemic I guess, they decided to 1. Keep their kids in private school at Bethel and 2. Enroll in the school of supernatural healing or whatever tf.  LIKE BAAAAAAAD BAD BAD BAD IDEA.

 

Sigh. Anyway, I'm still sick and got a covid-19 test just in case. It would be so pathetic if after this amazing revelation I just died, but oh well. 

 

I want to live whatever is left of my life fully.  I'm not sure about my marriage, but right now, it's best to stay for my kids and my husband is really so sweet, just lacking in ambition and intellectual ability, but quite funny and good looking. We get along, but I do get bored and wonder if I should have married better.  Obviously everyone has faults and there's no guarantee another person would be better. 

 

 Lots to think about still.  I haven't told any of my Christian family and friends except my husband.  He's depressed about it.  I hope I can eventually convince him to see the truth. 

[LogicalFallacy]

Welcome to Ex-C physicslady

 

It sounds like you've had quite the realization.

 

14 hours ago, physicslady said:

I asked myself this question: is there something about Christianity that predisposes people to deny reality, especially an unpleasant reality like climate change or systemic racism?  Did they have an incentive to deny the truth?

 

An interesting question. There certainly are correlations between believing religious woo, and a susceptibility to believing conspiracies etc

 

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I realized that as Christians we were trained to  "see God in everything".

 

This is an important realization and it goes a long way to explain why it's hard for people to leave Christianity. Like you say, if you are sick and you pray to be healed. If you get well, praise God, if you don't then it's God's will and he's trying to teach you something etc (i.e. mysterious) Thus its a non falsifiable proposition because everything that happens and possibly can happen is God according to the Christian. It's a remarkable inbuilt defense mechanism for Christianity, and one that has stood the test of time.

 

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Anyway, I realized I was guilty of the same deluded thinking of the QAnon religious right people - I had used coincidence to stand in for evidence, my "faith" was really a suspension of logic and reasoning.

 

Yep.

 

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 Naturally, my next step was to figure out the implications of 1. Christianity is made up and 2. My life without God.   Even as i was flooded with relief of the truth and the freedom to no longer use convoluted copied arguments to explain why God allowed such suffering in the world or his stance on the LGBTQ+ community, I was also hit by the sad reality that heaven does not exist, my "friend" that I'd talk to all the time was emptiness, and prayers are nonsense.  And that I'd wasted many years of my life, decades, plus lots of money, on a delusion.  I believed because I didn't want to face the truth that life is random, painful, and fleeting.  If I left the church, my family and friends would be devastated and I might lose them.  And how was I going to raise my kids?  What about my marriage? 

 

These are often the questions that keep people in Church but secretly not believing. This part was the hardest for me - losing the belief that God had everything under control, and fear of what might happen with friends and family.

 

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And I want to deconvert all of them, but I know it will be traumatic for them and probably make them hate me.

 

My advice here is not to push too hard too fast. Let them get used to your non belief first. It could take a while. Then after a while they may ask you why, and you can point out why, and that might make them think about it. Or not. My family is used to my non belief but dug their faith in harder, reading more Christian books etc to shore up their faith. Apart from a few initial discussions they haven't asked me seriously why I don't believe. I don;t think they want to know the truth, and instead console themselves that satan has warped my mind, or God will bring me back etc. You may have to possibly face the same.

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It sounds weird, but I feel like the most ethical moral thing for me to do is to tell them the truth and beg them not to waste the only life they've got.

 

Tell them the truth that you no longer believe certainly, but I caution about pushing too hard for them not to believe

. 

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I want to live whatever is left of my life fully.  I'm not sure about my marriage, but right now, it's best to stay for my kids and my husband is really so sweet, just lacking in ambition and intellectual ability, but quite funny and good looking. We get along, but I do get bored and wonder if I should have married better.  Obviously everyone has faults and there's no guarantee another person would be better. 

 

The grass is always greener on the other side... except when it's not. When it comes to marriage I think there is one primary important question (well two), do you love him, does he love you? If yes, great, if no then yeah, you might need to think about things.

 

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Lots to think about still.  I haven't told any of my Christian family and friends except my husband.  He's depressed about it.  I hope I can eventually convince him to see the truth. 

 

Well I hope it goes well. If you have any questions etc, need support we are here for you.

[Insightful]

Hi Physicslady!  Welcome to ex-c.  I loved your post - I think much like you do and left Christianity for many of the same reasons... and felt the same feelings too!

 

I'm impressed at how much processing and deconstructing you've done in such a short amount of time!   Were you wavering for some time or 100% all in and then, bam it all fell apart?

 

Like you, I'm a graduate level science nerd - a master's in biochem and a doctorate in optometry.  

 

It takes a lot of courage to follow the evidence - especially when it means letting go of those warm fuzzy thoughts like having a personal God who is listening and orchestrating everything...  But the clear-headedness of not having to bend reality to fit the worldview is soooo nice.   I'm so much happier now and healthier emotionally.

 

My Christian wife was devastated and my defection almost destroyed us... But 7 years later, we're still married and doing better than ever.  She remains a believer, but not too seriously and not fundagelical anymore.  Practically, she is a very liberal Christian and it has been easier and easier to raise our girls together.

 

I wish you all the best!  Be patient with your beleiving friends - like the QAnon folks, the more you show them evidence that counters their beliefs, the more they will double down on their deluded state.  As Mark Twain rightly observed, it's a thousand times easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled...

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Welcome, physicslady.  I am glad you found us and the courage to chime in.  I really appreciate how you tend to look for the good in situations--christians aren't always good people, but jesus is; husband lacks ambition, but is handsome and funny.  That speaks a lot to your character.  I'd wager that trait will come in handy as you process your deconversion, deconstruct your beliefs, and set new guidelines for yourself and, as you so accurately reflect, your only life.

 

I, too, felt greatly cheated in the early days.  I've constantly worked jobs that were beneath my ability and intellect, married an absolutely horrible person (god's will...yay), didn't get to indulge my passion for science until later in life (biological sciences), even squandered most of my talents by either ignoring them or using them for jesus.  But, I can truly say that I have made my life my own now; and I can truly say that I am happy.  Some aspects still haven't panned out the way I'd want; but I have found the strength and serenity within myself to be content.

 

One thing I would encourage you to do is be kind and gentle with yourself for the next little while.  You're feeling a lot of things and thinking of stuff that you never thought of before.  That's okay.  You don't have to have everything figured out right now.  Remember that the whole point behind time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.  Give yourself time.

 

Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the stages of grief.  I've noticed over the years that many of us experience each of them, to a greater or lesser extent, early in the deconversion process.  They're uncomfortable; but they are necessary.  Allow yourself to feel, experience, and understand each step in the process.  The more thoroughly you complete each stage, the more thoroughly complete your life afterwards will become.  I suspect, given your propensity for optimism, you'll do just fine.

 

Meanwhile, make yourself home here; and if there's anything I can do for you, just holler.

[TABA]

17 hours ago, physicslady said:

Anyway, I am feeling both freaking awesome to be free of religion and yet scared and alone and ALSO I am most worried and concerned for all my family and friends who have given their lives to a stupid money sucking delusion!!  And I want to deconvert all of them, but I know it will be traumatic for them and probably make them hate me.

Hi PhysicsLady and welcome to the ranks of the deconverted - and especially to this community!

 

That one quote above well summarizes the various aspects of reconversion.  Emotions that we’ve all experienced along the way, good and bad.  And you probably realize that deconversion is a process, not a discrete event: that moment when you first say “I no longer believe it”, as significant, scary and exciting as it is, is really just the end of the beginning.  There remains a long (maybe months, maybe years) process where your way of thinking evolves and where you come to terms with your new way of looking at the world.  I’m not the most “insightful” person in the world (to borrow another member’s handle) but I can often tell a lot about how a particular person’s journey is going to go by their first post.  And I think you’re going to be fine: in spite of the challenges and maybe heartache involved, you’re already able to see some of the joy that comes with letting go of inherited dogma.  
 

My three friends above have given you very good advice along with the warm welcomes.  Around here we’re generally in agreement about the importance of not trying to deconvert others.  I’m reminded of the saying “Never try to teach a pig to sing: it wastes your time and it annoys the pig”.   Not equating believers with pigs in any way:  I’m rather a fan of swine.  But most people are not cut out to deconvert.   It’s that simple. 
 

Being married to a believer has its challenges (I know first hand but my marriage is thriving, I’m glad to say) but I’m hopeful because of how you describe your husband. 
 

Anyway, I just wanted to add to the welcome.  You’re among friends here and I look forward to getting to know you better!

 

- ‘TABA’

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome! Damn. SO many points you made that resonate with my own experiences. Even the Redding church and the charismaniacs that follow every whim as being "The Spirit™ Told Me", and when it clearly doesn't pan out it is STILL God doing something mysteriously wise and good instead of clearly bullshit. They are trained to not question and to always believe regardless. And the church is only too happy to use/abuse you and blame you if you complain. The great-and-precious promises that he can flat out not answer, and it's still an answer. The utter silence when desperate prayers are given for healing, the excuses believers make for the non-answers being legitimate and "good all the time". Grrr.

 

The music and musicians... Some were awful. Some were manipulative. Some were so damn full of themselves, pissed if they weren't being given accolades for how great they felt about themselves and their musical abilities, and envious and sullen if others were given opportunity to express themselves musically. That's mostly different from the jazz community I'm in now. I've only encountered a few that were this way, but the vast majority willing to play with and teach those who aren't professionals. I'm a singer, but have only done it as a hobby, where most of the pros are practicing daily and honing their skills constantly. 

 

Happily, my wife and I deconverted around the same time, though we met in church. She's brilliant (Mensa and Intertel level), and has a great sense of humor. 

 

Most of the rest of my family are die-hard believers and rarely communicate with me now that they know I am no longer a believer (after 30 years of banzai belief). That's partly fine, but also sad that they are still so entrenched in thinking the imaginary friend is real and critical for survival. We had a bunch of immigrant friends, but when we stopped church and belief, many of them became fearful of us for "rejecting Jesus" instead of seeing through a lie. Just a few of them are still fine with us. 

 

COVID time has taken away social outlets, so I'm focused more now on daily practices to survive the plague and avoid infection. Singing stopped a year ago, and I've replaced that with growing culinary mushrooms, canning food, pickling food, renewing other little hobbies, doing house maintenance, and trying to stay sane and away from the emotional cliff of giving up on life over dissatisfaction with various things. Instead I choose to focus on the good I have, and try to learn new things often. Being outside seems to be a good emotional thing as well, instead of sitting in front of a computer for hours. 

 

Again, welcome! 

[physicslady]

First of all, a huge thank you for reading and for all the kind responses - really affirming and makes me feel better about life beyond, not feeling so alone, marriage, career, friends and eventually navigating the believer/ non believer divide.

 

I feel really fortunate that this community exists!  Deconversion would be so much scarier and lonelier without it.  The pandemic has been so lonely already and I haven't figured out what to say yet to our small group.  I'm a bit nervous about talking to anyone because I feel like I'm overflowing with thoughts and emotions and I don't want it to come all spilling out and overwhelming my Christian friends. 

 

@LogicalFallacy yes, non falsifiable proposition! Much more precise language.  I feel like Trump uses this technique all the time (Ok, he also straight up spouts garbage but sometimes he's so ambiguous when he responds, it's like constant misdirection or not coherent enough to be classified as a lie.  Totally slithery!).

 

@Insightful on if i had been wavering for a while: I thought not, but I guess I always believed God was real, but lately was not sure if I liked God and his plans for me.

 

I have had some annoying painful health issues for the past few years and I definitely cussed out God and wanted to commit suicide at points.  Had a lot of hard things happen in life plus bad experiences at multiple churches.  I just thought God didn't like me, or I was doing stuff wrong.  But sometimes wildly good things happened and I thought that was God.  And you know they say, "don't love God only in the good times..." I felt confused because I couldn't tell if all the bad stuff was my fault, his fault or just random suffering that God allows. 

 

So I was genuinely surprised to come to the conclusion rather suddenly, when I had just been asking myself if there were some correlations between Christians and believing lies/ distrusting science?  I never in a million years thought I would end up an atheist, but I couldn't unsee my conclusion after I came to it.  I think this is classic physics training - you follow some assumption or truth, make some logical steps and bam! Special relativity.  I always thought physics was so cool for all the startling conclusions made from some simple statement like the speed of light is constant.  But I really thought God made it that way!

 

 My habits and heart haven't caught up with my mind though and I still find myself praying to God like to a friend.  It's almost like when someone dies suddenly and you have to keep reminding yourself that you won't be able to tell them that joke you heard the other day- like it still doesn't quite seem real that they died.  I realize prayer is/was a way to try to have control over what is not controllable. 

 

A few absurd things happened this week:

 

1. I tried to thank God in prayer for my revelation that he doesn't exist (it felt like a gift of freedom! Or some kind of non divine intervention ).

 

2. I tried to pray that my husband would "see the light " and decide God wasn't real.  Pretty please!

 

3. I tried to talk to God about how sad I was that he and heaven don't exist.  Then got more sad. 

 

4. I could not decide if it was the devil who told me or if Christianity was the devil. 

 

5. I realized I don't need to be afraid of tarot cards, the occult and evil spirits, but the thought still gives me shivers. 

 

Anyway I thought I might eventually leave the church and still be a Christian privately up until Monday.  While I had been complaining about Christians for like ever, even my husband said - I didn't think you'd just decide one afternoon to go full out atheist.  Seems really sudden. 

 

 Honestly I feel pretty sheepish that it took me so long to really look at the evidence, which is substantial, as a former research scientist.  I really hated apologetics (all the people in it just seemed like douches tbh), so I just assumed my personal experience and answered prayers were enough evidence for faith.  I tried to make evolution fit with the general progression of Genesis.  But like obviously the sun and moon were created after the earth, which was wrong, and then eve coming from Adam was the basis of so much misogyny.

 

Glad to know the marriage is still going strong!  I think we will get through this, but sometimes relationships, like faith, can suddenly take a bad turn.  My hope is that he'll come around and in the process get more motivated about living a meaningful life, but I'll still have peace if he doesn't.

 

 @TheRedneckProfessor

I don't know why I'm so optimistic when life is scary and random, but maybe my Christian training is finally good for something??  Good to know the feeling of being cheated fades as you take back more of your life.  I'm sooooo impatient to get deconversion over with and get on with my life that I think your words to go slow will be a good reminder in days to come.  The grief is real even if the bible is not.

 

@TABA I hope I'm using these @ things right since I don't know the internet etiquette very well!  >.< nice quote about the singing pigs (although, does anyone read/ watch Olivia the pig?https://images.app.goo.gl/a6KkNSka1ZVBRug1A <--- this is me when no one is around)

 

I think I saw your post about church attendance - good to know the love is still there and congrats on making it work, despite the challenges. 

 

I think you are right - that most are not cut out for deconversion. But I wonder - if someone does a slow fade and never goes to zero faith (like an asymptote, ha), then would it approximately equal no faith such that the benefits of having no faith would be felt without the psychological hurt of leaving?  I feel like the fate of our species and planet are in danger if religion lives on... I hope the gays save us - I think it's definitely a huge reason for young people to go either progressive or leave. 

 

@Fuego well damn it feels good to swear!  Nice to meet a fellow ex worship musician (does the word worship make you cringe??).  Jazz is too hard for my brain - improvising seventh chords in multiple inversions - so props!  Jazz singing is so cool, so hard.  I came from classical piano, so improvisation is terrifying.  Listening to music now is a trip - it feels totally different and sometimes means something totally different!  Best of all guilt free to enjoy. 

 

Was just listening to "the dog days are over" by Florence and it was so cathartic!  I had an almost manic high when I realized how much better music was without that nagging thought of "but my Christian friends probably wouldn't like all the cussing in this song or any of the worldly themes".  

 

Happy to hear another good marriage story too.  Sounds like a good plan to keep occupied learning new things and being outside.  I have a renewed appreciation for nature (it truly is amazing and so precious ) and it has a restorative healing effect despite all the sadness of the pandemic. 

 

Thank you all and nice to meet you! cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

[Myrkhoos]

Hello and welcome! 

 Be well and keep well!

 A small thing before I say more. The current political landscape in America is a temporary modern thing. Christianity is not per se left/right in the modern sense. Christianity tended to be all over the place, left and right, up and down. 

       Secondly, I rather think that the mass acceptance of unverified surprising claims is more tied to erosion of public trust. There might not be a pedophile ring in a pizza parlir run by Hillary Clinton, but there are pictures of Bill Clinton hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, a wealthy convicted sex offender who supposedly killed himself. Other politicians have been caught pants down in sex related incidents.

        Also Snowden and Assange showed the underbelly of a lot CIA and govt operations. Also the main cable news are extremely partisan. And politicians can be very exagerated. Donald Trump and the GOP fascists and Democrats and Joe Biden communists... So there is a general atmosphere of distrust and demonization at the highest level on all sides. That makes ppl more susceptible to "conspiracy theories" than anything else.

     For many although not all, religion is an emotional thing not an intelectual one. People want to feel safe and loved. The thing is reality is uncertain and can seem totally uncaring. So having god/gods alleviates fear/loneliness. 

      I am not saying such thing as spiritual practice of some kind cannot be valuable or that people cannot believe it to be true. Just observing a fact.

     My feeling is that technology might replace religion by a lot, tye more it can make you safe by surveilance and machines and loved even by sex robots or Virtual reality machines. AI might become the next "God". We shall see.

[Joshpantera]

Welcome!

 

And yes, that is the simplest answer. It sucks wasting time and money on a delusion, but you're preaching to the choir so to speak. It's like going to prison. Everyone in there ought to be equally ashamed because no one got with whatever it was they were doing. 

 

We've all been deluded. We get it. We've wasted money. We've wasted time. We've wasted emotion and energy. 

 

Now we're at this support group. Equally ashamed of being so naive previously. 

 

But life moves on and things can turn towards the up and up....

[midniterider]

Welcome Physicslady

 

Glad you decided Christianity was BS. It's nice to not let yourself be controlled by religions/religious organizations/religious people.