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Goodbye Jesus

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WalterP

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Just now, pittsburghjoe said:

 

Adam wasn't an idiot, he is in God's image. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what NOT doing what God said, is.

 

Assertion. We do not know how Adam thought nor do we know what, "in God's image" really means. Highly likely early Jewish religion thought of God as an anthropomorphic being, as attested in the Bible.

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16 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

Genesis was likely written around 3rd century BCE if memory serves me right. It is a creation myth story that follows the same kind of plot line as other ancient near-east creation myths. Why you think this one is the real deal, and not the others, I am curious to know.

 

I've said this many times before, the Bible is a guide. What is in it is to help you pass the test. To help you see the disorder. To see the light.

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5 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

 

Assertion. We do not know how Adam thought nor do we know what, "in God's image" really means. Highly likely early Jewish religion thought of God as an anthropomorphic being, as attested in the Bible.

 

The cost of people burning in hell for eternity is an eternal soul. Pretty sure it isn't idiotic.

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1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

I've said this many times before, the Bible is a guide. What is in it is to help you pass the test. To help you see the disorder. To see the light.

 

Assertion. Also, saying the Bible is a guide opens a can of worms. Essentially, you are stating that you are the authority of interpretation. It gives you a lens to determine what is authoritative and what is not. Not only that, plenty of Christians would vehemently disagree with you. I am making a bit of a fallacy here appealing to the majority, but I think it is valid. Most Christians would say that the Bible stands together, or it falls together. There is no middle ground.

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2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

The cost of people burning in hell for eternity is an eternal soul. Pretty sure it isn't idiotic.

 

Assertion, and if you want to talk about Hell, that was also a later development - also around the 2nd Temple period/inter-testament. Early Jewish theology, i.e., the Hebrew Bible or the Old Testament as Christians call it only spoke of Sheol. A shadowy place where the dead, ALL DEAD, would hang out after death. Any of idea of eternal torment was a much later development in Theology. Stop reading theology into the Bible. You need some Sunday school lessons. Come on over and I will school you up.

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1 minute ago, Hierophant said:

 

Assertion. Also, saying the Bible is a guide opens a can of worms. Essentially, you are stating that you are the authority of interpretation. It gives you a lens to determine what is authoritative and what is not. Not only that, plenty of Christians would vehemently disagree with you. I am making a bit of a fallacy here appealing to the majority, but I think it is valid. Most Christians would say that the Bible stands together, or it falls together. There is no middle ground.

 

What do you think God cares more about, people seeing the light, or memorizing scripture?

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16 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

You are confusing our challenge to Adam and Eve's. It isn't the same exact thing. We already know what evil is. We are choosing between being able to Sin and pushing it away with Jesus. Adam's choice was between following God or Satan.

 

Following god without understanding, like a robot?

 

I thought you said that god didn't want robots?

 

Adam's challenge was to choose to obey god without knowing why.

 

That's what a robot does.  It follows a command without knowing why.

 

It doesn't make a free-willed choice.

 

Think about it.

 

 

 

 

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If God cared about us, even remotely, he would not leave us some archaic book written by authors with different view points. He would simply just tell us so there was no question about it, everyone would know exactly what they needed to know and there would be no need for 30,000 different Christian denominations fighting it out over who has " the truth" with a capital 'T.' Appealing to "seeing the light" is nothing more than saying you have a conviction of what the light is and that you have it. Plenty of people make the same statement and consistently disagree with other believers of the same religion about who has the light. Your burning in the bosom is the same justification used by Mormons; and I am fairly certain you do not think they have the light.

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Any God is better than none, at least you have a chance of making it out of here.

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4 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

Following god without understanding, like a robot?

 

I thought you said that god didn't want robots?

 

Adam's challenge was to choose to obey god without knowing why.

 

That's what a robot does.  It follows a command without knowing why.

 

It doesn't make a free-willed choice.

 

Think about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would be super awesome if you would ever read my response to this.

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Assertion. You are stating that I should hold to Pascal's wager because there could be a God. Granted, I will concede a point here. If there is by chance a God and he has some expectation of belief or behavior, I probably would be better off at least betting on some kind of God rather than not believing in any God. Problem I have with that is that I am making a wager that will influence my life here, possibly even significantly. What if I go off and follow A Voice in the Desert, the YouTube preacher who says I should not give anyone titles and sell all my goods. I could spend my entire life here living like a vagabond, only to find out I made the wrong bet. Turns out I was completely mistaken and Brahman assigns me to 10,000 years in hell because I chose the wrong religion. It is such a terrible wager, I am not willing to make it; and I find insufficient evidence or reason to even entertain the notion.

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Well said Heriophant.

 

Again, it's exactly like the verse advising us with so much gravitas that we must be "wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove".

 

I've seen rattlesnakes, copperheads, coral snakes, and moccasins...  serpents all.

If they are "wise", that aspect of their being is well-hidden from man.

 

Meaningless metaphorical obfuscation.

 

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27 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

Adam wasn't an idiot, he is in God's image. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what NOT doing what God said, is.

 

Yes Joe, Adam was made in god's image.

 

Except that god left something out.

 

He made Adam without a knowledge of good and evil.

 

So you can't say that Adam was exactly made in god's image.

 

He wasn't.

 

God knew that his creation was incomplete.

 

So why did he set his incomplete creation a test that relied on what Adam didn't have?

 

Remember now, blind obedience is for robots, not free-willed people!

 

Adam couldn't have known that god was good so he couldn't have chosen good over evil.

 

Think about that too.

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Joe - do yourself a favor and try to answer Walter's question. Just sit back, think about what he is asking, and if you are not sure, simply state so. There is nothing wrong with not knowing - and you can state that. Admit you are not sure, and really be honest and say that is simply, what you believe. You do not have reason or evidence, you simply just think that is how it is. It is what you are doing, you have a pyramid of theology built on unproven and unverifiable assumptions.

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1 minute ago, Hierophant said:

Assertion. You are stating that I should hold to Pascal's wager because there could be a God. Granted, I will concede a point here. If there is by chance a God and he has some expectation of belief or behavior, I probably would be better off at least betting on some kind of God rather than not believing in any God. Problem I have with that is that I am making a wager that will influence my life here, possibly even significantly. What if I go off and follow A Voice in the Desert, the YouTube preacher who says I should not give anyone titles and sell all my goods. I could spend my entire life here living like a vagabond, only to find out I made the wrong bet. Turns out I was completely mistaken and Brahman assigns me to 10,000 years in hell because I chose the wrong religion. It is such a terrible wager, I am not willing to make it; and I find insufficient evidence or reason to even entertain the notion.

 

The bet is for infinity ..this place is temporary and a cesspool ..it's called being foolish.

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5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Any God is better than none, at least you have a chance of making it out of here.

 

Oh, I see Joe.

 

Better to be a blindly-obedient robot in heaven than a free-willed person on Earth or in hell?

 

 

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1 minute ago, WalterP said:

 

Oh, I see Joe.

 

Better to be a blindly-obedient robot in heaven than a free-willed person on Earth or in hell?

 

 

 

You are sounding like robot yourself. weird

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5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

 

It would be super awesome if you would ever read my response to this.

 

You haven't made a proper response yet, Joe.

 

You still believe that Adam could choose between good and evil without a knowledge of what good and evil are.

 

That's false.

 

Adam was made without that knowledge.

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4 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

Yes Joe, Adam was made in god's image.

 

Except that god left something out.

 

He made Adam without a knowledge of good and evil.

 

So you can't say that Adam was exactly made in god's image.

 

He wasn't.

 

God knew that his creation was incomplete.

 

So did he set his incomplete creation a test that relied on what Adam didn't have?

 

Remember now, blind obedience is for robots, not free-willed people!

 

Adam couldn't have known that god was good so he couldn't have chosen good over evil.

 

Think about that too.

 

Shocking that we are not all knowing like God.

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Consider Pascal's Wager in the face of how carefully Jesus declared that we are not able to fool him as to the content of our mind and our "heart".

 

According to Christ, if we default to belief only because we're afraid of the consequences of not believing then there is in reality no faith at all.

He instructed belief and faith, almost interchangeably within the body of the scriptures.

 

Belief only because you are terrified of punishment is not faith.

Rather, it's the opposite.

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1 minute ago, WalterP said:

 

You haven't made a proper response yet, Joe.

 

You still believe that Adam could choose between good and evil without a knowledge of what good and evil are.

 

That's false.

 

Adam was made without that knowledge.

 

You either pick between God which you know is good or you pick this other thing that you were told not to touch.

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1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

The bet is for infinity ..this place is temporary and a cesspool ..it's called being foolish.

 

Demonstrate to me the veracity of your claims I will believe it. Apply scientific rigor to why your hypothesis is true. If you can do it, I will be your right-hand man. We will go on the road together proclaiming the greatest discovery of all time. 

 

If there is a God, all I am asking for is the evidence of who this God is, what he can do, what he wants from me, and all the other stuff that goes along with it. I have no interest in self-harm. If there is a God threatening me, I want to know exactly what game I have been shoved into. I am not interested in riddles, divine hiding, contradictory text, contradictory people espousing systematic theology.

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2 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

If God cared about us, even remotely, he would not leave us some archaic book written by authors with different view points

And furthermore, why would God appear - in person - to all kinds of people in the old and new testament, but then go awol for over 2000 years?  What amazes me most is that Christians are all too happy to answer questions for god  - a fuckin' audacious thing to do.  They can't explain how the brain works or why we are conscious beings (among a million other mysteries), but they can explain how god thinks - or actually have the nerve to speak for god. They have no idea how narcissistic it makes them sound and how impotent it makes their god look. 

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Just now, freshstart said:

And furthermore, why would God appear - in person - to all kinds of people in the old and new testament, but then go awol for over 2000 years?  What amazes me most is that Christians are all too happy to answer questions for god  - a fuckin' audacious thing to do.  They can't explain how the brain works or why we are conscious beings (among a million other mysteries), but they can explain how god thinks - or actually have the nerve to speak for god. They have no idea how narcissistic it makes them sound and how impotent it makes their god look. 

 

Seriously - "eh, I talked to Moses, that should be good."

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Just now, pittsburghjoe said:

 

You either pick between God which you know is good or you pick this other thing that you were told not to touch.

 

No.

 

That's false, Joe.

 

Adam couldn't make that choice.

 

He didn't know what good was.

 

God made him without that knowledge.

 

Go read the Bible and see for yourself!

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