WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Let's see if you can answer a simple Yes/No question, Joe. Did god make Adam without any knowledge of good and evil? Yes or No? Answer asap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, WalterP said: No. That's false, Joe. Adam couldn't make that choice. He didn't know what good was. God made him without that knowledge. Go read the Bible and see for yourself! You live in Good and Evil right now, you know what they are. Adam lived in Good, he knows what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: The cost of people burning in hell for eternity is an eternal soul. Pretty sure it isn't idiotic. God sending people to Hell is idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: You either pick between God which you know is good or you pick this other thing that you were told not to touch. You are being anachronistic and you are trying to get out of a tight spot because you cannot, or will not, allow yourself to think the story does not make sense. This is another reason why the other mods locked the other thread. You are stalwart in your thinking. The first step to seeking truth, is to question what you believe. For a Christian, that is very, very difficult. I had a very hard time coming out of religion because it was a foundation on how I viewed the world. Until you can accept the idea that you might be wrong, you will never understand what real truth is, really understand this world around us. You will be easily swayed by sweet words and hopeful possibilities, but you will not be a truth seeker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: What do you think God cares more about, people seeing the light, or memorizing scripture? I dont know. Tell us the mind of God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hierophant said: Demonstrate to me the veracity of your claims I will believe it. Apply scientific rigor to why your hypothesis is true. If you can do it, I will be your right-hand man. We will go on the road together proclaiming the greatest discovery of all time. If there is a God, all I am asking for is the evidence of who this God is, what he can do, what he wants from me, and all the other stuff that goes along with it. I have no interest in self-harm. If there is a God threatening me, I want to know exactly what game I have been shoved into. I am not interested in riddles, divine hiding, contradictory text, contradictory people espousing systematic theology. Do you know what the double slit experiment is? Watch this 5min cartoon, I don't mean for it to be insulting, it just give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: You live in Good and Evil right now, you know what they are. Adam lived in Good, he knows what that is. No. That's wrong. He was made without a knowledge of what good and evil were. Now answer the Yes/No question. Did god make Adam without any knowledge of good and evil? Yes or No? Answer please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, Hierophant said: You are being anachronistic and you are trying to get out of a tight spot because you cannot, or will not, allow yourself to think the story does not make sense. This is another reason why the other mods locked the other thread. You are stalwart in your thinking. The first step to seeking truth, is to question what you believe. For a Christian, that is very, very difficult. I had a very hard time coming out of religion because it was a foundation on how I viewed the world. Until you can accept the idea that you might be wrong, you will never understand what real truth is, really understand this world around us. You will be easily swayed by sweet words and hopeful possibilities, but you will not be a truth seeker. Humor me. Listen to or read Dr. Richard Carrier's Why I am Not a Christian. If you are able to overcome the main objections he brings up, you will literally change my mind. The objections Dr. Carrier mentions are the exact ones that I concluded myself before I ever even read his book. He was able to put it to words where I would be lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, midniterider said: God sending people to Hell is idiotic. It sure is. Weird how our representatives (Adam and Eve) caused us to be here ..Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: Do you know what the double slit experiment is? Watch this 5min cartoon, I don't mean for it to be insulting, it just give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Answer the question, Joe. Did god make Adam without a knowledge of what good and evil were? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, WalterP said: No. That's wrong. He was made without a knowledge of what good and evil were. Now answer the Yes/No question. Did god make Adam without any knowledge of good and evil? Yes or No? Answer please! Wrong because you don't want it to be obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: Wrong because you don't want it to be obvious? That's not a Yes or No answer, Joe. I asked you if god made Adam without any knowledge of good or evil. Your answer is either, 'Yes he did' or 'No, he didn't.' Which is it? Yes or No? Please answer the question with a Yes or No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 I watched the video, and I enjoyed it. I am going to cut you off at the knees and let you know that Quantum Mechanics and the mysteries surrounding it, does not inherently mean God, especially the Christian God. That is a non-sequitur and nothing more than a God of the Gaps apologetic. There are about a million more gaps you would have to fill before getting to God. Consider this, there is no reason to think that either nature or a God is able to out compete the other for just existing. How nature or matter or energy always existed is currently a mystery. There could be a God, but this God is an equal mystery. We have no idea if there is a supreme being with magical powers floating out in the universe. It is beyond our ability to investigate. You are taking a giant leap and saying, "I believe this is true," without sufficient reason to do so. You have taken a leap I, and others here, are unwilling to do. Taking leaps in logic like that will more often than not lead you to believing in false things. At the end of the day, you are perfectly free to think this way. Where you are making a blunder is that you are trying to tell us that you have come to some truth, we should believe it, but you have absolutely no way to prove to us what you believe is true other than some conviction, i.e., your feelings tell you so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, WalterP said: That's not a Yes or No answer, Joe. I asked you if god made Adam without any knowledge of good or evil. Your answer is either, 'Yes he did' or 'No, he didn't.' Which is it? Yes or No? Please answer the question with a Yes or No. You want the answer to be no, but you can't have it. Everyone here can see how ridiculous you are being. If you live in good you know what it is. I already explained why it wasn't necessary to know what evil was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: It sure is. Weird how our representatives (Adam and Eve) caused us to be here ..Hell. Being guilty for someone else's crime is also absurd. This must have been God's first crack at making a universe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, pittsburghjoe said: You want the answer to be no, but you can't have it. Everyone here can see how ridiculous you are being. If you live in good you know what it is. I already explained why it wasn't necessary to know what evil was. Joe - you are clearly losing this argument. You are making assertions for things you cannot possibly know and unable to answer Walter's question. I do not think you even have the capability to consider the question as Walter wants you to. You are blinded by a bias and unwilling to consider you could be mistaken in your thought process. Leave it alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: You live in Good and Evil right now, you know what they are. Adam lived in Good, he knows what that is. Adam did not know what Good was before eating the fruit. Eating the fruit gave him the knowledge of good and evil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hierophant said: I watched the video, and I enjoyed it. I am going to cut you off at the knees and let you know that Quantum Mechanics and the mysteries surrounding it, does not inherently mean God, especially the Christian God. That is a non-sequitur and nothing more than a God of the Gaps apologetic. There are about a million more gaps you would have to fill before getting to God. Consider this, there is no reason to think that either nature or a God is able to out compete the other for just existing. How nature or matter or energy always existed is currently a mystery. There could be a God, but this God is an equal mystery. We have no idea if there is a supreme being with magical powers floating out in the universe. It is beyond our ability to investigate. You are taking a giant leap and saying, "I believe this is true," without sufficient reason to do so. You have taken a leap I, and others here, are unwilling to do. Taking leaps in logic like that will more often than not lead you to believing in false things. It is to show something weird is going on. If something weird is going on then question what is going on. It doesn't lead directly to the Christian God, but it makes you consider this place isn't what it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: You want the answer to be no, but you can't have it. Everyone here can see how ridiculous you are being. If you live in good you know what it is. I already explained why it wasn't necessary to know what evil was. But Adam couldn't know what good was because god had made him that way, Joe. What you've written applies to us, but not to Adam. You know this. It's now up to you to be honest and truthful. Did god make Adam without a knowledge of good and evil? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, midniterider said: Adam did not know what Good was before eating the fruit. Eating the fruit gave him the knowledge of good and evil. Misconception, it's the balance that we see in this fallen reality. You can't withhold the knowledge of good when you exist in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said: It is to show something weird is going on. If something weird is going on then question what is going on. It doesn't lead directly to the Christian God, but it makes you consider this place isn't what it seems. The most intellectually honest answer here is, I do not know. I am not a scientist in Quantum Physics, so I would be completely off basis making claims that so and so must be true because of the unusual nature of Quantum Physics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 Joe - start here: Define good, then define evil. You must have a definition in your head and we need to agree to terms first. Better yet, go look up the Hebrew meaning of the words used in Genesis for good and evil and we can start there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hierophant said: ... You are blinded by a bias and unwilling to consider you could be mistaken in your thought process. Leave it alone. Or, "Whenever you find that you've dug yourself into a hole, the important thing to realize is when to cease digging". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: Misconception, it's the balance that we see in this fallen reality. You can't withhold the knowledge of good when you exist in it. How could Adam recognize good if he was made without any knowledge of what good was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: You want the answer to be no, but you can't have it. Everyone here can see how ridiculous you are being. If you live in good you know what it is. I already explained why it wasn't necessary to know what evil was. No, you are just too chickenshit to admit that God's test was poorly designed. Walter is correct and logical. God fucked Adam over by not giving him knowledge to make a good decision. God is one sneaky bastige. It's like testing an armless man's golf swing. It's absolutely ridiculous. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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