Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 @pittsburghjoe We are now 7 pages in. Please answer Walter's question on page 6 directly. All of your other replies and posts will be deleted until you adequately answer his question. That means one line throwaway will not be accepted. Thanks. All other members your posts will not receive replies from Joe until our friend answers Walter. This is Walter's thread and we want to se his queries answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: Yes, even though humans are born with a large capacity for critical thinking, the portions of brain used for it need use for it to develop properly. It appears Joe's brain did not develop much towards critical thinking skill. Likely, this was due in large part to childhood religious indoctrination (Roman Catholicism) by trusted adults and related peer pressure. Such indoctrination stifles development of independent and critical thinking. It can seem difficult to retrain the brain to fix this. Fortunately, the brain's plasticity is capable to change. It just takes desire, hard work and time. I won't judge Joe's ability for critical thinking, but rather his willingness. Deflecting direct questions speaks of a lack thereof in my opinion. And I'd forgotten that he is of the Roman faith... Good point. After all, for centuries they specifically forbade believers from making sense of the bible themselves, telling them there were not capable or worthy. I know there's still a great deal of that, even now today in the "reformed" RCC era, but I'm not there myself, so I don't know. However, one boast the RCC has always proclaimed is that it, the RC church is eternal and unchanging, and a direct representative of God on earth... so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, WalterP said: You haven't made a proper response yet, Joe. You still believe that Adam could choose between good and evil without a knowledge of what good and evil are. That's false. Adam was made without that knowledge. Correct, he was made without the knowledge of evil. If he did, the fallen reality would have started without Adam choosing to cause it. God doesn't create evil, they start out good and then sometimes turn evil because Free Will allows it. The tempter (Satan), got us to see what this physical sin was about. To follow Satan instead of God. We now know what evil is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, WalterP said: For the 16th time, Joe. Did god make Adam without the knowledge of good and evil? Please answer and stop dodging and stop lying. Yes or No? I think Joe's answer above answers this. Apprently Adam was made without the knowledge of evil. Walter your court if you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said: How can something physical be infinite? Can any being, even a god, be truly infinite? Let's look at omnipresence for a moment. True omnipresence, simultaneous existence at every point in time-space, would imbed the god into the bodies and minds of "sinners," forcing the god to participate in every thought and action. The instant the god pulled away, separated itself from the being doing the thinking or acting, the god would no longer be omnipresent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 38 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: I think Joe's answer above answers this. Apprently Adam was made without the knowledge of evil. Walter your court if you please. Sorry Logical Fallacy, but if you look closely Joe has written that Adam was made without the knowledge of evil. This leaves Joe with a loophole to claim that Adam could recognize good. So, he hasn't actually answered my question at all. He's substituted something of his own. My question was this. Did god make Adam without the knowledge of good and evil? Joe hasn't answered that. Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 I'll ask you again Joe. Did god make Adam without the knowledge of BOTH good and evil? Please answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 @pittsburghjoe, WalterP has given his response. He is not satisfied with the partial answer you have given. No other post of yours will be approved until you completely answer the entire question. This is how a choke-chain works, son. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Gen 2:16-17 - And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, WalterP said: Sorry Logical Fallacy, but if you look closely Joe has written that Adam was made without the knowledge of evil. This leaves Joe with a loophole to claim that Adam could recognize good. So, he hasn't actually answered my question at all. He's substituted something of his own. My question was this. Did god make Adam without the knowledge of good and evil? Joe hasn't answered that. Walter. I stand corrected. Once again your attention to detail is amazing. Joe, your answer please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 Joe, I note you've copy pasted two previously deleted posts. They do not answer Walter's question. Asking a question is not answering a question. Try again. The question is simple. You previously answered that God created Adam without knowledge of evil, but the question includes Good AND evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 39 minutes ago, WalterP said: I'll ask you again Joe. Did god make Adam without the knowledge of BOTH good and evil? Please answer. Your argument falls apart when a default to a fallen reality isn't ideal. Good WITH Evil is the balance of this fallen reality we are in. If you exist in good, you know what it is. We currently exist in both, so we know what both are. God created a good garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: Your argument falls apart when a default to a fallen reality isn't ideal. Good WITH Evil is the balance of this fallen reality we are in. If you exist in good, you know what it is. We currently exist in both, so we know what both are. God created a good garden. So, once again, you've dodged answering the actual question I put to you, Joe. I didn't ask about us, nor did I ask you about the garden of Eden. I asked you about Adam's knowledge of both good and evil. Did god make him with that knowledge? Yes or No? Please answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, WalterP said: So, once again, you've dodged answering the actual question I put to you, Joe. I didn't ask about us, nor did I ask you about the garden of Eden. I asked you about Adam's knowledge of both good and evil. Did god make him with that knowledge? Yes or No? Please answer. Please tell me where you trying to go with this. Let's say he doesn't have either ..who cares? The outcome is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, alreadyGone said: I won't judge Joe's ability for critical thinking, but rather his willingness. Deflecting direct questions speaks of a lack thereof in my opinion. And I'd forgotten that he is of the Roman faith... Good point. After all, for centuries they specifically forbade believers from making sense of the bible themselves, telling them there were not capable or worthy. I know there's still a great deal of that, even now today in the "reformed" RCC era, but I'm not there myself, so I don't know. However, one boast the RCC has always proclaimed is that it, the RC church is eternal and unchanging, and a direct representative of God on earth... so there's that. I was not judging, just observing. Concluding that Joe is likely unwilling to use (developed) critical thinking skills necessarily requires Joe to be disingenuous, devious and pretentious, would demonstrate intellectual dishonesty and would require the assumption that he actually has developed critical thinking skills in the first place. That's quite a bit to assume. Based on the evidence Joe has presented in these five threads, it is much simpler to provisionally conclude he simply doesn't have the ability to think critically. As you previously observed, this is not a comment on his intelligence or on the possibility that he can learn to think critically should he chose to work towards that. An inability to think critically does not imply or require disingenuousness, deviousness, pretentiousness or intellectual dishonesty. It only points to an inability to think critically at the present time. Joe's stubbornness and deflection when it comes to addressing simple question posed by other posters seems to be governed by his brain's limbic system, i.e., he experiences fear so he invokes the fight or flight response, a genetic hard-wired behavior dating back at least to reptiles. I also wonder whether the parts of the brain that generate cognitive dissonances are working properly in Joe's brain. I suspect not, but that's a different subject. Long term exposure to religious indoctrination and related peer pressure can be quite harmful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: Please tell me where you trying to go with this. Let's say he doesn't have either ..who cares? The outcome is the same. No. I have precedence over you, Joe. I've asked you the same question almost twenty times. You have no right to ask me any further questions. Now its time for you stop dodging, changing the subject and running. Answer this question. Did god make Adam with a knowledge of both good and evil? Yes or No? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Joe, The Who's Online facility says that you're currently looking at this thread. Therefore, please answer my question. Did god make Adam with a knowledge of both good and evil? I know you are reading these words. Please answer the question. Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted January 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 hours ago, Hierophant said: If God cared about us, even remotely, he would not leave us some archaic book written by authors with different view points. He would simply just tell us so there was no question about it, everyone would know exactly what they needed to know and there would be no need for 30,000 different Christian denominations fighting it out over who has " the truth" with a capital 'T.' This pretty much sums it up. Why all of the cat and mouse games? People reading along should pay close attention to the back and fourth here between our staff and members and Joe the apologist. He's flat stumped, folks. He's in a head lock that he can not escape back out of. It's impossible. His premise (presuppostion) is not something that can be proven. Proving the premise as true is beyond his or anyone else's ability. Let's not get away from the points in the above quote! If the objective is to save people from something, well then make for dam certain that it's beyond clear to everyone. Not subject to 30,000 or more interpretations. I would expect one interpretation made beyond clear as to what it means if an all knowing god is behind it. Literally knowing everything, including the importance of making for dam sure that no one can dispute the truth of the claims made. Something that truly absolute would be beyond any dispute, hence being "absolute." The evidence that the bible IS a god inspired book handed down from high is extremely lacking!!! The evidence shows that it's a mass of differing opinions written by different people who contradict themselves and other contributing authors. Starting in Genesis 1. And following through to Revelation. Joe will not be able to overturn this summary of the bible. In fact, the harder he tries, the deeper the hole Joe will dig for himself in the process. Until he's beyond buried. Think I'm wrong? Just observe the thread play out all the way through... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Joe, Once again the transatlantic time difference will work in your favour. I'll be logging off soon. If you start posting again, just recall that the Moderators will lock this thread when the page count hits 10. I hereby give LogicalFallacy, JoshPantera and the RedneckProfessor my full permission to do this in my absence. If this thread is still active tomorrow, you and I can pick up where we left off. I'll be asking you the same question as before. Did god make Adam with a knowledge of both good and evil? If this thread is locked when I log on again, I'll start up a new one and invite you to me there. We'll start over. Same question. Unless, of course, you've given the Moderators grounds to ban you altogether. Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Now, in the few minutes remaining Joe... ...please answer my question. Did god make Adam with the knowledge of both good and evil? Please answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 God set up a test where the act of finding out what evil meant required committing an evil act. lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 31, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 @pittsburghjoe, your account has been temporarily restricted and you will not be able to post anything until 07:30 EST on 31 January 2021. This will ensure that you and @WalterP will be able to pick up where you left off. Enjoy your night off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: @pittsburghjoe, your account has been temporarily restricted and you will not be able to post anything until 07:30 EST on 31 January 2021. This will ensure that you and @WalterP will be able to pick up where you left off. Enjoy your night off. And with that, I bid you all... ...goodnight! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 31, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, WalterP said: And with that, I bid you all... ...goodnight! Be safe, Walt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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