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Free will. What is it? Does God of the Bible offer it to us?


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Ok, Edgarcito.

 

Let's (for now) accept your point that Adam could make free willed choices.

 

So, did god tell him what he needed to know about the consequences of making the wrong choice?

 

Please answer.

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On 2/8/2021 at 3:44 PM, WalterP said:

Ok, Edgarcito.

 

Let's (for now) accept your point that Adam could make free willed choices.

 

So, did god tell him what he needed to know about the consequences of making the wrong choice?

 

Please answer.

 

Bumping this for your attention may be aggravating to you, Edgarcito.

 

But the events accurately recorded (inerrant) in the bible about the garden of Eden are fundamental to Christianity.

 

They shape the role of Jesus as the saviour from the consequences of sin.

 

Without a Fall from grace there would be no need of a saviour.

 

So, please answer the question.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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On 2/7/2021 at 7:26 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Pepsi goes best with Taco Bell; but that might be because I prefer burritos over burgers.  Coke Blak would be my go-to, though, if they still sold it here.

 

Sacrilage!  If you're not ordering a baja blast when eating at taco bell then you're an unworthy heathen.

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6 minutes ago, Krowb said:

 

Sacrilage!  If you're not ordering a baja blast when eating at taco bell then you're an unworthy heathen.

Easy there, sport.  Mountain Dew contains yellow #5, which everybody knows shrivels your... need for aggressive over-compensation.

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     I've brought this idea up before, starting maybe 10 or so years ago, but I'll toss it in here again.

 

     In Matthew's version of the Lord's Prayer (and some of Luke's variants) we get the piece that states: "thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."  Now, if we hold that these words are uttered by a member of the god-head and are therefore entirely accurate then we can accept that the simple interpretation is god's will is done in heaven while god's will is not done on Earth.  Of course the appeal is for god's will to be done on Earth as well but that is beside the point here.

 

     Why is this important?  Because we need to consider the rebellion of an angel named Lucifer and the one-third of his followers.  This occurs in Heaven.  But we now know that god's will is the rule in that place.  There is no free will in heaven.  There is only god's will.  Unless we equate god's will with free will.  That is to say that your free will extends to those things that fully align and comply with god's will.  Anything that falls outside of god's will simply cannot be done.  This is not to say these things are not allowed but are not done since the Lord's Prayer states exactly that: "thy will be done."  So could there be a rebellion in heaven?  Only if this was fully in alignment and complied with god's will.  There is no other way such an event could happen in heaven.  The fall of Lucifer, thus becoming Satan, and the other angels with the apparent creation of a hell can only be said to be in full compliance and alignment with god's will and not against god's will.

 

     If we allow that god did not make these events happen we can know, for certain according to the words of god's son in the Lord's Prayer, that they aligned fully with god's will.  God then willed these beings to Earth instead of the place prepared for them.

 

     Now, if we take some of these ideas a little further, that if god were to fully present itself that we would simply become robots instead of being capable of free will then we need to know if what happened in heaven was caused, essentially god's will, or was free will?  Is god's will always done in heaven or not?  Is jesus mistaken in Matthew?  Did Lucifer, and the other angels, being in the direct presence of god exercise free will in opposition to the notion of being robots in such a situation?  Did Adam and Eve behave as robots since they were exposed directly to god as opposed to using blind faith?  We're expected to accept that all these did utilize free will, and chose in opposition of god, in spite of the assertion that this becomes robotically impossible once god is made fully known.

 

          mwc

 

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2 hours ago, mwc said:

     I've brought this idea up before, starting maybe 10 or so years ago, but I'll toss it in here again.

 

     In Matthew's version of the Lord's Prayer (and some of Luke's variants) we get the piece that states: "thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."  Now, if we hold that these words are uttered by a member of the god-head and are therefore entirely accurate then we can accept that the simple interpretation is god's will is done in heaven while god's will is not done on Earth.  Of course the appeal is for god's will to be done on Earth as well but that is beside the point here.

 

     Why is this important?  Because we need to consider the rebellion of an angel named Lucifer and the one-third of his followers.  This occurs in Heaven.  But we now know that god's will is the rule in that place.  There is no free will in heaven.  There is only god's will.  Unless we equate god's will with free will.  That is to say that your free will extends to those things that fully align and comply with god's will.  Anything that falls outside of god's will simply cannot be done.  This is not to say these things are not allowed but are not done since the Lord's Prayer states exactly that: "thy will be done."  So could there be a rebellion in heaven?  Only if this was fully in alignment and complied with god's will.  There is no other way such an event could happen in heaven.  The fall of Lucifer, thus becoming Satan, and the other angels with the apparent creation of a hell can only be said to be in full compliance and alignment with god's will and not against god's will.

 

     If we allow that god did not make these events happen we can know, for certain according to the words of god's son in the Lord's Prayer, that they aligned fully with god's will.  God then willed these beings to Earth instead of the place prepared for them.

 

     Now, if we take some of these ideas a little further, that if god were to fully present itself that we would simply become robots instead of being capable of free will then we need to know if what happened in heaven was caused, essentially god's will, or was free will?  Is god's will always done in heaven or not?  Is jesus mistaken in Matthew?  Did Lucifer, and the other angels, being in the direct presence of god exercise free will in opposition to the notion of being robots in such a situation?  Did Adam and Eve behave as robots since they were exposed directly to god as opposed to using blind faith?  We're expected to accept that all these did utilize free will, and chose in opposition of god, in spite of the assertion that this becomes robotically impossible once god is made fully known.

 

          mwc

 

It's all about decoherence waves and shit, man.  Weren't you paying attention to pittsburgtroll?  god damn it!

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1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It's all about decoherence waves and shit, man.  Weren't you paying attention to pittsburgtroll?  god damn it!

     I paid attention up to the point where decoherence intertwined with incoherence.

 

          mwc

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
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There was certainly a lot of incoherence involved in the decoherence apologetic's. 

 

A wavy reality = jesus! 

 

Come on, it's all right there in Genesis 1 people!!

 

Get with the program!!!

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