Moderator TABA Posted February 5, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Welcome to the newest Peanut Gallery. Let’s leave the main thread for the two debaters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Did you let Joe know that we have a thread going in the Lion's Den? I do not think he knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Oops! I responded to Hierophant, but it looks like my post would be suited to this Peanut Gallery. Posted 7 minutes ago 5 hours ago, Hierophant said: Walter - I know what you are getting at. I am going somewhere with my line of questioning, i.e., down the road, I am going to press Joe on certain points, but before I get there, I want to make sure I have a good idea of what he is trying to argue and try to see how he is thinking about his theology. I have noticed over the years that if I do not define terms and concepts before debating them, then frequently I end up talking right past someone. I have done a lot of studying of Christianity so I am familiar with sects, beliefs, esoteric language, and I might have a definition of a term or principle I am used to because of my background that others do not. Expand Well, good luck Hierophant. If I had to anticipate what you'll come up against, it might be something like this. You and Joe will appear to arrive at a mutually-understood definition of his beliefs. Then, when you use logic to expose the flaws and faults in them, he'll change that definition. Either by watering it down (the Bible is only a guide) or by browbeating you (I am the vessel of the Holy Spirit, not you) telling you that he is right and you are wrong and you should see things his way or not at all. If things get difficult he'll switch to persecution-mode and claim that you are trying to shut down his important mission to save our souls from quantum decoherence. I could be wrong, but time will tell. Thanks, Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 I think the debate is already over. Joe admitted he can provide no evidence for his claims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Time for a Hitchslap, then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens's_razor "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 You know it!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Why do you think decoherence causes wave collapse? Why do you think we can not directly detect Dark Matter? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps you should ask Joe why his evidence-free explanation is more persuasive than a hundred other evidence-free explanations given by others who also believe they have special knowledge from god? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, pittsburghjoe said: ...Whenever you search for ways NOT to believe, you are not listening to The Holy Spirit. ... Joe, I hope that you are well today. On the above quote, I can speak only for myself. I wanted there to be a God. From what I believe I know of the members here (being active here for only a brief time), I don't think I am alone in that. I have known people through my years who, to my perception and understanding at the time, really did not want to believe even the possibility that there is a supreme being. I am not one of those. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Joe is grasping at straws. He admits to being agnostic around a year ago and has only come to this QM wave theory in the past 2 weeks. He can't provide any evidence because there is none. The Bible obviously doesn't reflect his theory. I see one of two ways Joe can go from here. He could become agnostic again or completely leave faith. Or he could continue with his delusion and try converting others. I dont think he would be able to sway any of us here that have been deconverted for awhile,, but I think his theory is dangerous to questioning Christians that haven't studied the Bible much or anything refuting the bible. Its rooted enough in science to sound plausible. But its completely ridiculous if you've really studied the Bible. And especially ridiculous if you've left religion and studied into the Bible outside of faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 "but you ditched it when you didn't get a clear sign." Not true, that is an incorrect assumption. I did believe, through more years than you have probably been alive. I "ditched it" with extreme reluctance and distress. But I am intruding here in a discussion between you and Hierophant, so I will leave it at that. Stay well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted February 5, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, alreadyGone said: But I am intruding here in a discussion between you and Hierophant, so I will leave it at that. That’s why I moved it here to the Peanut Gallery. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, DarkBishop said: Joe is grasping at straws. He admits to being agnostic around a year ago and has only come to this QM wave theory in the past 2 weeks. He can't provide any evidence because there is none. The Bible obviously doesn't reflect his theory. I see one of two ways Joe can go from here. He could become agnostic again or completely leave faith. Or he could continue with his delusion and try converting others. I dont think he would be able to sway any of us here that have been deconverted for awhile,, but I think his theory is dangerous to questioning Christians that haven't studied the Bible much or anything refuting the bible. Its rooted enough in science to sound plausible. But its completely ridiculous if you've really studied the Bible. And especially ridiculous if you've left religion and studied into the Bible outside of faith. Amen. Dangerous and destructive personality cults of start off just like this, when one person claims to have some special revelation from god that cannot be tested or checked, but must be believed because, I SAY SO! I recall one of the British adherents to the David Koresh Branch Davidian sect writing about their experiences in a national newspaper over a decade ago. Despite the fact that they condemned Koresh himself and his methods of mind-control, the saddest aspect of their testimony was how, even after experiencing Koresh's abuse and surviving the massacre, they were still looking for god. These vulnerable, fragile and easily-led people are easy meat for charismatic 'messengers' from god. Surely this forum exists to protect those trying to leave religion from predators looking for converts? Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted February 5, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, WalterP said: These vulnerable, fragile and easily-led people are easy meat for charismatic 'messengers' from god. Surely this forum exists to protect those trying to leave religion from predators looking for converts? Walter. Fortunately Joe appears to lack the needed charisma. Plus his zany message does not go without rebuke here, as you’ve helped ensure. We protect the vulnerable by confining proselytizing to the Lions Den. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, TABA said: Fortunately Joe appears to lack the needed charisma. Plus his zany message does not go without rebuke here, as you’ve helped ensure. We protect the vulnerable by confining proselytizing to the Lions Den. I hear you, TABA. As a tangent, just imagine getting stuck between floors in a lift (elevator) with only PittsburghJoe and Joe (Brothermario) Mello for company! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted February 5, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, WalterP said: As a tangent, just imagine getting stuck between floors in a lift (elevator) with only PittsburghJoe and Joe (Brothermario) Mello for company! . . . or on an Airplane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, WalterP said: As a tangent, just imagine getting stuck between floors in a lift (elevator) with only PittsburghJoe and Joe (Brothermario) Mello for company! Self emulation never sounded so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 What are the chances that Joe is rather clever POE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Krowb ◊ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 37 minutes ago, TABA said: Fortunately Joe appears to lack the needed charisma. Plus his zany message does not go without rebuke here, as you’ve helped ensure. We protect the vulnerable by confining proselytizing to the Lions Den. This structure has other benefits as well. His ideas are being presented in full, given a neutral hearing, and found unsound. This site, being publicly available, creates a public record of his ideas (in his own words) and those ideas' failings in a way that any person can find with a simple internet search. Keep up the good work all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: What are the chances that Joe is rather clever POE? What is a POE? I might have heard it, but it is not coming to me in the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted February 5, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Krowb said: This structure has other benefits as well. His ideas are being presented in full, given a neutral hearing, and found unsound. This site, being publicly available, creates a public record of his ideas (in his own words) and those ideas' failings in a way that any person can find with a simple internet search. Second, every hour he spends with us is an hour he's not out attempting to convert others who may be misled by his sciency sounding approach. Keep up the good work all. Indeed. He chose to bring his message to a group that is unusually well-equipped to see through and counteract his spiel. And he’s scored a series of own-goals. You would think the Holy Spirit would have chosen a better messenger, or at least directed him to a more receptive audience. They don’t make Holy Spirits like they used to... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hierophant said: What is a POE? I might have heard it, but it is not coming to me in the moment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Krowb ◊ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 @Hierophant - I was hoping you'd post Matt 7:21-23 and you did not disappoint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, WalterP said: I hear you, TABA. As a tangent, just imagine getting stuck between floors in a lift (elevator) with only PittsburghJoe and Joe (Brothermario) Mello for company! Hey, no problem! Just put one hand on pJoe's right shoulder, one hand on JoeM's left shoulder, knock their heads together, then use them as a stepping stool to climb up out of the elevator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Oh boy he really does suck at this lmao. Definitely no charisma with this one. He could atleast study some Bible verses and try to relate them to his theory. Good grief. I feel for you @Hierophant. I hope your taking your Tylenol now before the headache starts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted February 5, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2021 I had one earlier....I had to step away and veg for a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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