DarkBishop vs. Pittsburghjoe

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@DarkBishop, you have the floor

[pittsburghjoe]

There isn't a rule on who gets to post first. Just ignore it if you don't like it:

 

Observation of numbers is the same as being included in this fallen reality.

 

In Math, you have input space and output space. The input is virtual, it is symbols that could mean numbers but it isn't useful until it is processed and sent to output space. Sounds like decoherence to me.

 

Output Space is this fallen reality. When we input numbers into the zeta function we get an infinite sum in output space.

 

That infinite sum is what happens at the present state ..the now. An infinite sum of local waves. The present state is like frames of a movie. People like to claim that it takes time for us to register when something happened so that it is past events. That information is when the particle was in a present state, it doesn't matter that it took time to get to you.

 

Do we need to reexamine what prime gaps are made of?
 

We already know all primes are in 6n±1. If we make rows out of it via +6 we can see a map, but as you know there are numbers that are not primes. These numbers are known as pseudoprimes. 25 is first example. There is also something curious if we reduce it to digital roots:

 

() = digital root

-1    | 00    | +1
6n-1  | 6n    | 6n+1
05    | 06    | 07
11(2) | 12(3) | 13(4)
17(8) | 18(9) | 19(1)
23(5) | 24(6) | 25(7) - 5x5
29(2) | 30(3) | 31(4)
35(8) | 36(9) | 37(1)
41(5) | 42(6) | 43(7)
47(2) | 48(3) | 49(4) - 7x7

There isn't an irregular gap between primes when we consider pseudoprimes as primes. 6n±1 is the distribution of unobserved primes. Non-trivial zeros of zeta are surely associated somehow.

Strikethrough with italics is a pseudoprime. Bold is prime. Do you see the pattern after the first line?

 

1,2,3,4,

5,6,7, 8,9,10,

11,12,13, 14,15,16,

17,18,19, 20,21,22,

23,24,25, 26,27,28,

29,30,31, 32,33,34,

35,36,37, 38,39,40,

41,42,43, 44,45,46,

47,48,49, 50,51,52,

53,54,55, 56,57,58,

59,60,61, 62,63,64,

65,66,67, 68,69,70,

71,72,73, 74,75,76,

77,78,79, 80,81,82,

83,84,85, 86,87,88,

89,90,91, 92,93,94,

95,96,97, 98,99,100,

101

 

Unobserved layout of Primes

 

1,2,

3,4,

5,6,

7,8,9,10,

11,12,

13,14,15,16,

17,18,

19,20,21,22,

23,24,

25,26,27,28,

29,30,

31,32,33,34,

35,36,

37,38,39,40,

41,42,

43,44,45,46,

47,48,

49,50,51,52,

53,54,

55,56,57,58,

59,60,

61,62,63,64,

65,66,

67,68,69,70,

71,72,

73,74,75,76,

77,78,

79,80,81,82,

83,84,

85,86,87,88,

89,90,

91,92,93,94,

95,96,

97,98,99,100

 

Observed changes to (more numbers added past 100 to get an idea of the train wreck)

 

1,2,

3,4,

5,6,

7,8,9,10,

11,12,

13,14,15,16,

17,18,

19,20,21,22,

23,24,25,26,27,28,

29,30,

31,32,33,34,35,36,

37,38,39,40,

41,42,

43,44,45,46,

47,48,49,50,51,52,

53,54,55,56,57,58,

59,60,

61,62,63,64,65,66,

67,68,69,70,

71,72,

73,74,75,76,77,78,

79,80,81,82,

83,84,85,86,87,88,

89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,

97,98,99,100,

101,102,

103,104,105,106,

107,108,

109,110,111,112,

113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,

127,128,129,130,

131,132,133,134,135,136,

137,138,

139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,

149,150,

151,152,153,154,155,156,

157,158,159,160,161,162,

163,164,165,166,

167,168,169,170,171,172,

173,174,175,176,177,178,

179,180,

181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,

191,192,

193,194,195,196,

197,198,

199,200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,

211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222

 

Like an orderly coherent wave to an observed/local decoherent wave packet.

Could it be the shape that non-trivial zeros are trying to form with harmonics?

https://mae.ufl.edu/~uhk/sixnplusone.pdf

 

If we are NOT in a fallen reality, why does something have to be wave collapsed to decay? Locality and Decoherence is the name of the game we are in. Locality allows uniqueness. Physical uniqueness allows us to be about ourselves ..sin.

 

Our brains are physical but we are using our soul to operate it for thinking. A physical brain by itself is only good for animal instincts.

 

Shouldn't Satan originally having a claim on everyone tell you he is a bigger deal than you care to admit to? Jesus takes that away from him, but not for those that don't see the light. Unbelievers need to understand that this beast owns them.

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
God's Kingdom doesn't want anything to do with this fallen place.

2 Corinthians 5:21
Does "For our sake he made him to be sin" mean Jesus was made in a way that could interact with this fallen reality?

'Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!' (Rev. 18:2).
Does God/angel call this physical fallen reality "Babylon" at the end before Judgment Day?

2 Corinthians 4:18
For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 
Is this talking about wave-particle duality?

[TABA]

Joe ignored the first post and jumped the gun.  That post is hidden for now. 
 

“DB, you have the floor” means “you go first”.  Unlike scripture, this is not just “a guide”. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Thank you @TABA and @TheRedneckProfessor,

 

Let's start off with that. Joe has proclaimed that he is Christian. Being a Christian he is bound by the text of the Bible. If he is to incorporate his fallen reality/double slit experiment to the Bible it must be supported with scripture. 

 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:31-32

 

This is one reason you can't win Joe. You are bound to the word/Bible. The Bible is flawed and even your attempt at explaining wave theory and original sin will not change that. It won't fix all the contradictions, it won't change the facts that science and archeology have found that do not align with the biblical account. It won't change the fact that when you pray to the Bible God even in faith he won't answer. Go ahead try it. Pray for me Joe. He is supposedly all powerful and has the ability to soften hearts. 

 

It is my theory that you have been questioning for a long time and you have come to a point that you are desperate to hold on to some shred of Christian faith. You saw this double slit experiment and something clicked in your mind. It made sense to you (for now). This was two weeks ago. As has already been pointed out in the peanut galleries, you seem to be on a religious high. We as exchristians have been there before. (On fire for God!!) Wanting to do his will. Thinking he is speaking through you with his holy spirit. Believe me! I understand that feeling. I laid awake many nights feeling like God was showing me his secrets in his word. Feeling like he was calling me to preach his word to his people. Developing sermon after sermon in my mind, unable to stop thinking about it. I stress again I GET IT! Been there done that. 

 

Your perspective is that in the beginning we were in fact coherent waves that defied Gods order and when we ate of the tree of knowledge that fruit made us materialize into what we are today? Is that a correct statement Joe?

 

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Yes.

There is something to be said about the intention of Bible scripture. Saying that it is flawed is your scapegoat. You are approaching it from the angle that you don't want to believe any of it. You want to say "hey, look at this, I don't have to believe because it says this". I provided some scripture that pertains in my first post.

 

Okay, you used to be excited about God ..you used to be. I'm here to challenge your way of thinking today.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Ok moderators can we reveal his first post now. He just referred to it so let's go ahead and tackle that. I will also respond to this comment in my reply to that one. 

[TABA]

Just now, DarkBishop said:

Ok moderators can we reveal his first post now. He just referred to it so let's go ahead and tackle that. I will also respond to this comment in my reply to that one. 

Thy will be done.  What was hidden has been revealed.  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

1 hour ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Okay, you used to be excited about God ..you used to be. I'm here to challenge your way of thinking today.

 

Joe you grossly underestimate my zeal as a Christian. I know its hard for a Christian to believe that an unbeliever like me ever believed in the first place. But its true. I believe and didn't doubt for a long time. I preached, worked my way up in the church, came to all the services and functions etc. I even baptized people! Including my own son. Anyway let's continue this. 

 

Real quick. Who wrote the old testament Joe? It will play into some points later on I believe. But for now let's look at your first post. 

 

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Like an orderly coherent wave to an observed/local decoherent wave packet.

Could it be the shape that non-trivial zeros are trying to form with harmonics?

https://mae.ufl.edu/~uhk/sixnplusone.pdf

 

I'll be honest Joe. I'm not a mathematician or a quantum physics expert. Thank you for giving me a reference for where the math came from however. One thing I noticed on the original link is there is a severe lack of relating that math with anything in the Bible. Once again only your assertions link it with the Bible. 

 

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Observation of numbers is the same as being included in this fallen reality

 

How so? I see nothing on your link about a fallen reality. 

 

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

If we are NOT in a fallen reality, why does something have to be wave collapsed to decay? Locality and Decoherence is the name of the game we are in. Locality allows uniqueness. Physical uniqueness allows us to be about ourselves ..sin.

 

No Joe we aren't in a fallen reality. We are just in reality. I personally like uniqueness. You and I have already discussed slightly about the creation. While I really don't want to rehash everything let's take a look at it. I'm going to summarize some. 

 

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:26

 

I could post the whole chapter. But from the very beginning it is obvious that God is creating a physical world filled with physical animals. He made the land, he made the sea, he made the fowl of the air and everything that creepers upon the earth. He gave man permission to eat of all fruit bearing tree. He gave man dominion over the earth and all its creatures. Not only does the Bible reflect everything being created in physical form. EVEN MANKIND. But it also shows the first major flaws in the Bible. In the text God created a flat earth. 

 

"6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."

 

It was the belief in the time that basically the reason the sky was blue was because there was water above the sky. Or heaven. 

 

 

https://biologos.org/articles/the-firmament-of-genesis-1-is-solid-but-thats-not-the-point/

 

 

This was what the writer(s) of the old and new testament for that matter,  believed the earth looked like. This was before telescopes or any other scientific advancements. You need to realize that the Christian/Hebrew myth evolved over time and was completely devoid of any scientific influence. You are trying to insert modern science into a mythology that was completely written upon the beliefs of an ancient and ignorant people. The same type of people that sacrificed virgins to volcanoes because they believed it would stop the eruptions. Everytjing about the creation was written from a physical understanding because the authors intended it that way. This is their explanation of the world to their people. 

 

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
God's Kingdom doesn't want anything to do with this fallen place.

 

Not true. In most Christian denominations  God is literally going to come to earth and rule here. At least for 1000 years. They get that belief from Revelations chapter 20. 

 

My last church taught that when God came to earth that earth would be made heaven because where gods throne is is where heaven is. 

 

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

2 Corinthians 5:21
Does "For our sake he made him to be sin" mean Jesus was made in a way that could interact with this fallen reality?

 

He was made sin at the cross. Not before. He came in the form of man and was made sin for us so that we would need to receive the punishment. You believe he was sin from birth correct?  Not true according to scripture. 

 

Hebrews 4

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin

 

1 John 3:5
You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin

 

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

2 Corinthians 4:18
For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 
Is this talking about wave-particle duality?

 

No Joe the author wasn't talking about wave parties duality. Remember? An ancient and ignorant people devoid of the scientific knowledge we have today wrote this. 

 

This is the next verse:

 

5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

 

He is literally talking about his reward in heaven. These chapter are about his suffering in the now but believing in something he can't see but will recieve later. He couldn't see heaven but he knew it was eternal. He could see this world but it is corruptible. Naturally speaking when we die here our bodies rot. But he believed in a resurrection where he would get a new body, also physical, but that body would not be burdened by sin and it would live forever. Hence. Incorruptible. 

 

Your not taking the bible in context. Nothing in the Bible supports your wave duality except what is in your own mind. 

 

If your wave duality concept were true and sin caused us to become physical. (Even tho we had already been made from earth and bone. Also we had already been eating from trees that grew from PHYSICAL EARTH. Then when those sins are removed via Jesus we should at that point become coherent waves again. 

 

Again. If I saw someone kneal at an altar then disappear. I promise Joe. I could believe again. But thats not going to happen. 

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

5 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

, fallen is Babylon the great!' (Rev. 18:2).

Oh forgot about this one. I was actually taught the great whore of Babylon was the catholic church. (No offense to former catholics, not my fault) 

 

Either way its not talking about a fallen reality. You can't really put regular scripture in context. You might wanna stay away from Revelations. It takes a lot of twists and turns to make it fit already without adding your quantum waves to it. 

[pittsburghjoe]

Are you saying you don't know what a prime number is? The link had to talk about a fallen reality for some reason? I showed you how the mathematical concepts related.

 

Quote

I personally like uniqueness.

 

I'm sure you do, you're falling for the trick.

Quote

 

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:26

 

 

Yeah, that was before Satan got authority of it.

 

No kidding early writers didn't know about QM. They wrote what they could about the topics.

 

You're not getting that we won't have these physical bodies in heaven. I think it says somewhere that they will be heavenly bodies. We have trouble imagining a virtual human made of matter waves. Anything our size wouldn't have matter waves ..it would be decoherent. Humanity is stuck here until Judgment Day. Only then can we be free of decoherence.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

I'm Roman Catholic, I don't believe in this heaven on Earth cr@p.

[pittsburghjoe]

Jesus was made to be sin in order to die with our sin.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

No kidding early writers didn't know about QM. They wrote what they could about the topics.

 

No shit Joe. Of course they didn't know about QM. And yes I know what a prime number is. But there is no mathematics or QM theories that are going to make a human materialize into this physical reality BY EATING A FRUIT. It is ridiculous to even think that is possible. I'm trying to show you the truth of creation.

 

I brought up many things in my post. And attempted to show you why they wrote what they wrote. Not only did they NOT know about quantum mechanics,, they didn't know about the earth being a sphere. They didn't know that the sun emits light and causes daylight, literally daylight and night were "created" before the "lights" were hung in the firmament. They didn't know the moon was a body of earth, they thought it was one of the greater lights! They thought there was water above our atmosphere. They thought the planets we can see were just lights. They had no knowledge of anything outside of their little world and the writing reflect a religion developed with that limited knowledge. You are trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. All of these stories are just that, stories to explain why we are here and are just as credible as Greek, Norse, or Egyptian mythology. The writers invented these stories. Its historically proven. All cultures invented their own religions and lived by them. The Jews were no different. Their religion evolved into what it is today over time. If you could go back to ancient isreal they would be teaching something different than even what we see. 

 

It is for these reasons that there is no way your wave theory is true. The writers wrote about what they knew. This theory came about 7000+ years later. 

 

But if you want to waste a turn talking about your "I think" and "I believe" theology about how we were quantum waves, blah blah blah.  Thats fine. You have the burdennof proof Joe. Can you prove that quantum waves can turn into a living being? The answer is no. You cannot prove that. 

 

Who do you believe wrote Genesis? 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Oh and Joe I'm very disappointed. I spent two hours preparing a well thought out reply to you and you only asserted your unfounded ideals without any references. And completely ignored the points I brought up. If you can't give a similar well thought out reply. Refuting my argument then I dont know if we can continue debating. I await your response. 

[pittsburghjoe]

I don't care if they thought the moon was made of cheese. You completely missed the point of whatever they were talking about. Do you think God sat down with them and verbally told them what to write? They had to use what they knew at the time.

 

So you can't handle the math and would rather go back to the Science? Oh wait, you can't handle that either.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

7 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

So you can't handle the math and would rather go back to the Science? Oh wait, you can't handle that either.

 

For one Joe Fuck You. You are the one living in la la land thinking light waves can turn into humans.

 

Science? You dont understand science!! Believe me if there are any real scientists watching this.. they are reading your words and saying.... "what the literal fuck?" Non of your so called references relate the specific study to Bible teachings. It is only you relating it Joe. The ones doing the studies are doing it without any religious agenda in mind. I've given you sound, provable, comments on the origins of the creation narrative. Your Job is to prove your theory right and mine wrong. "Proving requires PROOF!!!!"

 

HERES THE DEAL. The creation narrative is fiction. You are trying to apply modern science to a work of fiction. It has already been proven that the old testament has been influence by 4 separate writters over time. It most certainly wasn't written by Moses because his story is also a work of fiction proven by the lack of archeological evidence. 

 

So guess what Joe. If it was all fiction. Uour theory doesn't matter. Either way. It didn't happen. The Garden of eden, the serpent, the tree, the fall, Satan, non of it was real. You need to step out of the fairy tail and into reality.

 

You have given me nothing and have devolved to insults because of your own inability to argue your own lunacy. 

 

Moderators I think Joe is very close to deserving the Ban Hammer. 

[pittsburghjoe]

What do think is going on in near-death experiences that involve Heaven? Are they physical then when their bodies are back on earth?

[pittsburghjoe]

Is it my fault you don't understand mathematical and scientific terminology? You want to get angry at me about it? The ideas don't require you to know ..they just require you to be willing to think about them.

[pittsburghjoe]

You guys demand math and science ..and then look what happens when you get it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

27 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

What do think is going on in near-death experiences that involve Heaven? Are they physical then when their bodies are back on earth?

 

Well this is easy. The body is going through a traumatic experience causing delusions from lack of oxygen. Most likely. From my agnostic standpoint I hope that the spirit is going to live on. Either way it doesn't prove anything. Most likely it is just delusions and the brain losing oxygen. I do hope its more tho. But thats me. I'm not atheist. I just know the Bible is bullshit. You should really read my profile and learn your audience. 

 

27 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Is it my fault you don't understand mathematical and scientific terminology? You want to get angry at me about it? The ideas don't require you to know ..they just require you to be willing to think about them.

 

If I know the bible is proven to be a lie. Why should I consider your terminology or entertain them? The Bible itself is a fallen reality.

23 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

You guys demand math and science ..and then look what happens when you get it.

 

You really haven't proven anything other than you are unable to prove your point of view. 

 

1. Can you prove the creation story is true? 

 

2. Can you provide valid scientific studies relating the research on QM and Double slit to the bible?

 

Think about it Joe. Your grasping at straws. 

[pittsburghjoe]

What are you worried about? That you are going to miss out on the sin available here? I just don't get it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

I will repeat. 

 

5 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

1. Can you prove the creation story is true? 

 

2. Can you provide valid scientific studies relating the research on QM and Double slit to the bible?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Are you physical? Original Sin happened then. If Original Sin happened, guess what else did?

 

The double slit is about about decoherence ..so is something else.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Are you physical? Original Sin happened then. If Original Sin happened, guess what else did?

 

The double slit is about about decoherence ..so is something else.

 

This once again is an "I think" form of theology. Unless you can provide proof other than "we are physical so it must have happened " then this debate is over and I won. I would have referenced more if you could have given a valid argument. I'm not much older than you. I hope as you continue to entertain these ideas that you realize just how unrealistic your stand point is. But if this makes you happy I wish you the best going forward and a long healthy life worshipping your God. 

 

12 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

What are you worried about? That you are going to miss out on the sin available here? I just don't get it.

 

I have to answer this. No I'm not worried about missing out on sin. I dont want to miss out on my LIFE believing in a book of lies. 

 

Thank you for your time. Unless you have something pertinent to add. This debate is over. 

[pittsburghjoe]

What did you win? Making me sad that won't consider my idea? That you are going to be deep sh!t when you realize you should have? You are asking for disorder for eternity.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE STUCK THERE!