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Goodbye Jesus

Can't beat the fear of hell out.


Sirolo

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Hello everyone, I thought I would share my experience with RTS. I was a very sincere believer and religion was the most important thing in my life(it's said the more sincere  you were, the more you got harmed from religion, and I find it truth.) I'm sorry for appearing pessimistic but I have realized throughout 8 years of deconversion that the only way and solution to truly deconvert would be to check out what's life after death. To die or commit a suicide and know what's truly out "there".
Otherwise, it is only speculations, uncertainty, fear and conditioning-based theories. The only help and relief out there is to find like-minded people but even here in this group there are different-minded persons. Many will say religion is a fairytale but your whole being reacts to it as being real and nothing can beat this out of you. 

 

Not all experience same issues from leaving religion. While others are dealing with only regret of lost years because of religion, loss of families or anger issues, the others are drowning in fear of possible afterlife in hell and can't get out of it no matter what. It's very difficult to beat the fear of hell out of your system, you may forget for a while but to completely erase this seems nearly impossible to me in this life.

 

Honestly, I'm very tired from everything, I wish I was dead or at least get a disease from which I could die. In the past I have unsuccessfully attempted a suicide couple times. Many years of panic attacks, depression, loss of hope and meaning wore me out. Over the past 8 years I have developed an umbrella of negative issues with anxiety, a binge eating disorder and various destructive behavior and thought patterns and that's because of religion. 

 

Now I'm depressed, unmotivated, chronically fatigued, in constant discomfort, anhedonic(unable to experience pleasure) without much hope and enthusiasm, unable to feel love, living with one of my parents, unemployed, with eating disorder, feeling like I'm the worst human-being on Earth and viewing my future in a very pessimistic way, I think I will become a homeless person when my parents die. I'm a huge mess. I think my case is one of the worst cases in religious trauma syndrome. I wish to disappear. It seems I will completely recover from religion. I wish I have never read a Bible. It is difficult to deconvert because I have experienced the biggest amount of love while I was in. 

 

I wish I could meet a person with the same issues I have because it's difficult to live when you don't have anyone to relate to in your environment because of how distinct and rare this religious trauma experience is. Looking forward to new friendships who had the same experience like I did.

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Welcome to Ex-c. 

 

Are you getting counseling? Are you on medication for clinical depression or the other issues? 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sirolo said:

Hello everyone, I thought I would share my experience with RTS. I was a very sincere believer and religion was the most important thing in my life(it's said the more sincere  you were, the more you got harmed from religion, and I find it truth.) I'm sorry for appearing pessimistic but I have realized throughout 8 years of deconversion that the only way and solution to truly deconvert would be to check out what's life after death. To die or commit a suicide and know what's truly out "there".
Otherwise, it is only speculations, uncertainty, fear and conditioning-based theories. The only help and relief out there is to find like-minded people but even here in this group there are different-minded persons. Many will say religion is a fairytale but your whole being reacts to it as being real and nothing can beat this out of you. 

 

Not all experience same issues from leaving religion. While others are dealing with only regret of lost years because of religion, loss of families or anger issues, the others are drowning in fear of possible afterlife in hell and can't get out of it no matter what. It's very difficult to beat the fear of hell out of your system, you may forget for a while but to completely erase this seems nearly impossible to me in this life.

 

Honestly, I'm very tired from everything, I wish I was dead or at least get a disease from which I could die. In the past I have unsuccessfully attempted a suicide couple times. Many years of panic attacks, depression, loss of hope and meaning wore me out. Over the past 8 years I have developed an umbrella of negative issues with anxiety, a binge eating disorder and various destructive behavior and thought patterns and that's because of religion. 

 

Now I'm depressed, unmotivated, chronically fatigued, in constant discomfort, anhedonic(unable to experience pleasure) without much hope and enthusiasm, unable to feel love, living with one of my parents, unemployed, with eating disorder, feeling like I'm the worst human-being on Earth and viewing my future in a very pessimistic way, I think I will become a homeless person when my parents die. I'm a huge mess. I think my case is one of the worst cases in religious trauma syndrome. I wish to disappear. It seems I will completely recover from religion. I wish I have never read a Bible. It is difficult to deconvert because I have experienced the biggest amount of love while I was in. 

 

I wish I could meet a person with the same issues I have because it's difficult to live when you don't have anyone to relate to in your environment because of how distinct and rare this religious trauma experience is. Looking forward to new friendships who had the same experience like I did.

 

If your life now is all that there is then suicide would throw away everything that you ever could have in exchange for nothing at all. Most religions believe that suicide warrants everlasting damnation in hell, so if you're afraid of hell then that's a terrible plan. Spend some time, make a plan for your happiness and don't be surprised if you succeed. :)

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Welcome to ExC,

 

I agree with you 100% that the more sincere you were in your beliefs the more it hurts when you deconvert. I hope you can pull yourself out of this mindset you are in. Counseling would probably help. I find that in times of weakness. If I read or watch some studies debunking the Bible then it helps to strengthen that resolve that there is nothing to fear. Knowledge is the key to deprogramming your mind. I hope this helps. I wish you all the best. 

 

DB

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11 hours ago, midniterider said:

Welcome to Ex-c. 

 

Are you getting counseling? Are you on medication for clinical depression or the other issues? 

 

 

Ditto.  If you aren't doing those things, you need to do so.

 

11 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

 make a plan for your happiness and don't be surprised if you succeed. :)

 

Another ditto.  If you need help deciding what you want to do with your life, see a therapist, or go to RECOVERING FROM RELIGION website.  And consider that there is likely more going on with your problems than your religion.  We can encourage you and give you our views on religious issues, but to change what is going on in your life will be up to you.  And read our Testimonies.  Mine has a section about purpose in life if you want to read it.  "TRUTH: A GRADUAL AWAKENING".  Hang in there!

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13 hours ago, midniterider said:

Welcome to Ex-c. 

 

Are you getting counseling? Are you on medication for clinical depression or the other issues? 

 

 

Yes, I'm on medication but these doesn't really help much. I have extreme anxiety issues 

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Hi.

I regret that you suffer so much.

It would help if you said more. When did you get in religion, where, what debimination, some imp experience, how you managed to deconvert..etc.

       As to your observation about uncertainty. Yes. I feel you in that and so far I see no way out of it. Maybe there is one, who knows.

       About suicide. An extreme solution. Should be a last resort IMHO. But safe and legal. It boggles the mind that while abortion is legal physician assisted suicide is not.

      For anxiety. It is difficult to say smth because, as said, I know very little about you. Anxiety can have many causes including bad digestion. For counseling you could try ex cult counseling. There are many now who know some tehniques to deal with strong inoculated phobias. Cult literature in general. Search ICSA cult network and podcasts like Rachel Bernstein Indoctrination, Let s talk about sects , Jon Atack youtube channel, etc. 

       So depending on the cause, studying, diet, supplements, certain types of talk therapy could prove useful. I mean CBD oil seems to help a lot of people. Magnesium too. Non religious contemplation like secular mindfulness and philosophy helps some people. You can search about Ajahn Sumedho buddhist monk.  He is an American therevada buddhist monk and speaks in a very secular funny manner about many subjects including uncertainty.  Best of luck. Idk if those specific examples work but try and see.:)

      Also throughly research christian universalism. David Bentley Hart and Illaria Ramelli are two well established academics that helped me here.

      

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1 hour ago, Myrkhoos said:

physician assisted suicide is not.

 

I dont know how it is in other countries but there are only two states in America that have legalized assisted suicide. In Oregon, it is limited to the terminally ill. It is a way for them not to suffer. They actually have to be of sound mind. There is a psychiatric evaluation one must go through. 

 

6 hours ago, Mrjukes21 said:

Hey what do you guys think about people saying all celebrities are Illuminati

 

We probably shouldn't derail sirolo's thread talking about celebrities. Maybe you could make a separate post and discuss it there. 

 

DB

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7 hours ago, Mrjukes21 said:

Hey what do you guys think about people saying all celebrities are Illuminati and they sell their souls to the devil to become famous. They say they show this by making certain hand gestures like the circle around your eye with three fingers up which supposed to represent 666 sign. They say celebrities like Jay z and Beyoncé are at the top of the Illuminati while also believe that when Kanye west attacked Jay Z’s Roc nation he was fighting against the Illuminati. What do you guys think about these theories?

 

Please don't hijack another member's topic with something unrelated.  Feel free to start your own topic about this.

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8 hours ago, Sirolo said:

Yes, I'm on medication but these doesn't really help much. I have extreme anxiety issues 

Medication might be necessary to help you over the hump, but I suggest doing something to help you feel like you have a purpose in life.  Something to increase your feeling of being worthwhile, and take your mind off the negative stuff.  Staying focused on your bad feelings just sends you deeper into them.

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@Sirolo Sorry to hear you are having a rough go right now. If there is one thing I understand, it is fear of Hell. It is safe to say that was the foundation of my relationship with Christianity. It took me a long time to get over that fear as well, maybe two to three years after deconversion it stopped being a fear that crept up every now and then. 

 

I do not know what will work for you, but for me, I had to stop thinking about what is possible and focus on what is probable. I spent a lot of time studying Christianity both inside and out. I am confident in saying that the odds of Christianity being true are astronomical, to the point where it would not even be close to a whole number.

 

My anxiety used to get the best of me and I would fret over all these possible things that could happen, usually called catastrophising, and just get myself all bent out of shape. It's pointless and all it will do is drive you crazy.

 

To another point, I really thought about Hell and what it would mean to be there. It may sound flippant, but I figured that the vast majority of people would surely be there. If heaven was real, and someone made it, they did so by pure chance. Nobody actually knows what the measuring stick is. Based on that, I figured if Hell was real, odds are, I am probably going there unless I got lucky, but I am not really a lucky person. On top of that, I figured heaven has to be a stressful place to be. You would have to constantly walk on eggshells around YHWH because you never know when he might snap about something. If anything, I can be a total ass in Hell and it isn't going to get any worse.

 

I'm sure you might think my thought process strange, but that is just how I feel about it and the idea of Hell doesn't bother me anymore. For context, I used to get panic attacks thinking about Hell that usually led to nausea.

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@Sirolo It may not feel that way to you but I think you are hella brave to be ex-Christian. It's easy to fall back on a toxic belief system in hopes of getting a hint of escape during a difficult period of your life, but you chose a difficult and true path even under the overbearing weight of depression. If you can't get your mind off of the Christian idea of hell I might suggest maybe studying various religions and spiritualities concerning their beliefs about the afterlife? At least for me studying and knowing about the whole scope of beliefs helped get over the delusion that a particular picture of the afterlife had any weight in it (or that the only conceivable afterlife involved unending cruelty for cruelty's sake).

 

In the end, Christian or not, you have to come to your own conclusions about what life is about or what everything means. It makes no sense to accept the beliefs that are offered with threats of hell and eternal torture. The necessity for a threat itself betrays that that kind of belief system stands on shaky grounds, and require violence (imagined and/or actual) to perpetuate itself.

 

I struggled with the fear of hell for about a decade or so after my deconversion. I will not lie - it's a lengthy and scary process. I hope you can believe in your ability to get through it because I believe you can.

 

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What also helped me was thouroughly examining the concept of self. You might get help from your intropection in this area.

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On 2/8/2021 at 6:59 AM, Sirolo said:

Honestly, I'm very tired from everything, I wish I was dead or at least get a disease from which I could die. In the past I have unsuccessfully attempted a suicide couple times. Many years of panic attacks, depression, loss of hope and meaning wore me out. Over the past 8 years I have developed an umbrella of negative issues with anxiety, a binge eating disorder and various destructive behavior and thought patterns and that's because of religion. 

 

Professional counseling issues are outside of our range of help here. 

 

But we are here for community. We're here to make friends with ex christians online. And encourage each other. This is a place for people to co-mingle with other ex christians, or for christians to come and try and debate us.

 

Many people here once felt like absolute shit. Depression, life isn't worth living, all of it. And many have transcended that state of mind. Sometimes just finally putting christianity and it's depressing world view behind you can be enough to take someone in an entirely new direction in life. Not depressed. Not feeling like shit. Head up and proud. That's the story of many an ex-christian. 

 

In short, there's always hope for big changes.....

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22 hours ago, Hierophant said:

@Sirolo Sorry to hear you are having a rough go right now. If there is one thing I understand, it is fear of Hell. It is safe to say that was the foundation of my relationship with Christianity. It took me a long time to get over that fear as well, maybe two to three years after deconversion it stopped being a fear that crept up every now and then. 

 

I do not know what will work for you, but for me, I had to stop thinking about what is possible and focus on what is probable. I spent a lot of time studying Christianity both inside and out. I am confident in saying that the odds of Christianity being true are astronomical, to the point where it would not even be close to a whole number.

 

My anxiety used to get the best of me and I would fret over all these possible things that could happen, usually called catastrophising, and just get myself all bent out of shape. It's pointless and all it will do is drive you crazy.

 

To another point, I really thought about Hell and what it would mean to be there. It may sound flippant, but I figured that the vast majority of people would surely be there. If heaven was real, and someone made it, they did so by pure chance. Nobody actually knows what the measuring stick is. Based on that, I figured if Hell was real, odds are, I am probably going there unless I got lucky, but I am not really a lucky person. On top of that, I figured heaven has to be a stressful place to be. You would have to constantly walk on eggshells around YHWH because you never know when he might snap about something. If anything, I can be a total ass in Hell and it isn't going to get any worse.

 

I'm sure you might think my thought process strange, but that is just how I feel about it and the idea of Hell doesn't bother me anymore. For context, I used to get panic attacks thinking about Hell that usually led to nausea.

Thank you for your reply.

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13 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Professional counseling issues are outside of our range of help here. 

 

But we are here for community. We're here to make friends with ex christians online. And encourage each other. This is a place for people to co-mingle with other ex christians, or for christians to come and try and debate us.

 

Many people here once felt like absolute shit. Depression, life isn't worth living, all of it. And many have transcended that state of mind. Sometimes just finally putting christianity and it's depressing world view behind you can be enough to take someone in an entirely new direction in life. Not depressed. Not feeling like shit. Head up and proud. That's the story of many an ex-christian. 

 

In short, there's always hope for big changes.....

Thanks for the reply.

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17 hours ago, DestinyTurtle said:

@Sirolo It may not feel that way to you but I think you are hella brave to be ex-Christian. It's easy to fall back on a toxic belief system in hopes of getting a hint of escape during a difficult period of your life, but you chose a difficult and true path even under the overbearing weight of depression. If you can't get your mind off of the Christian idea of hell I might suggest maybe studying various religions and spiritualities concerning their beliefs about the afterlife? At least for me studying and knowing about the whole scope of beliefs helped get over the delusion that a particular picture of the afterlife had any weight in it (or that the only conceivable afterlife involved unending cruelty for cruelty's sake).

 

In the end, Christian or not, you have to come to your own conclusions about what life is about or what everything means. It makes no sense to accept the beliefs that are offered with threats of hell and eternal torture. The necessity for a threat itself betrays that that kind of belief system stands on shaky grounds, and require violence (imagined and/or actual) to perpetuate itself.

 

I struggled with the fear of hell for about a decade or so after my deconversion. I will not lie - it's a lengthy and scary process. I hope you can believe in your ability to get through it because I believe you can.

 

Thank you for encouragement.

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On 2/9/2021 at 1:34 PM, Myrkhoos said:

Hi.

I regret that you suffer so much.

It would help if you said more. When did you get in religion, where, what debimination, some imp experience, how you managed to deconvert..etc.

       As to your observation about uncertainty. Yes. I feel you in that and so far I see no way out of it. Maybe there is one, who knows.

       About suicide. An extreme solution. Should be a last resort IMHO. But safe and legal. It boggles the mind that while abortion is legal physician assisted suicide is not.

      For anxiety. It is difficult to say smth because, as said, I know very little about you. Anxiety can have many causes including bad digestion. For counseling you could try ex cult counseling. There are many now who know some tehniques to deal with strong inoculated phobias. Cult literature in general. Search ICSA cult network and podcasts like Rachel Bernstein Indoctrination, Let s talk about sects , Jon Atack youtube channel, etc. 

       So depending on the cause, studying, diet, supplements, certain types of talk therapy could prove useful. I mean CBD oil seems to help a lot of people. Magnesium too. Non religious contemplation like secular mindfulness and philosophy helps some people. You can search about Ajahn Sumedho buddhist monk.  He is an American therevada buddhist monk and speaks in a very secular funny manner about many subjects including uncertainty.  Best of luck. Idk if those specific examples work but try and see.:)

      Also throughly research christian universalism. David Bentley Hart and Illaria Ramelli are two well established academics that helped me here.

      

Thank you for your suggestions. I see you are well knowledged in assisted suicide. Have you researched for yourself because of religion inflicted suffering? I wish assisted suicide or euthanasia was legal in my country. The only place where it's legan and one can apply it is in Switzerland . This would be the last option.

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On 2/8/2021 at 6:59 AM, Sirolo said:

I'm sorry for appearing pessimistic but I have realized throughout 8 years of deconversion that the only way and solution to truly deconvert would be to check out what's life after death. To die or commit a suicide and know what's truly out "there".
Otherwise, it is only speculations, uncertainty, fear and conditioning-based theories.

 

Different people say different things. But when I was drowned or nearly drown surfing, I have no recollection whatsoever of any consciousness between the times that I was blacked out.

 

I was pinned to the sea floor. I fought until a gave up fighting. I went into peaceful mode and let go. I remember that. Then everything went black. I woke up coughing out water at the surface. I don't know how long I was down there or when I floated up. The experience of time ceased. I gave up, then some time must have passed, then I was at the surface. 

 

And that's the closest thing I have for personal experience of what death might be like. I weigh people's claims against what I experienced personally, which, wasn't glorious or horrific. It wasn't anything. It was black void of any experience or consciousness. 

 

No heavenly gates, no highway to hell. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Sirolo said:

Thank you for your suggestions. I see you are well knowledged in assisted suicide. Have you researched for yourself because of religion inflicted suffering? I wish assisted suicide or euthanasia was legal in my country. The only place where it's legan and one can apply it is in Switzerland . This would be the last option.

The thing is, suicide IS not the solution for post death anxiety. For one thing, the being/beings in charge if there any could just decide that some people live on after death and some do not. Or they could provoke amnesia. Or etc. So, sorry, but suicide is not a sure way to find out about for certain about post death situation for all people :( and maybe not even for you. Like I said, see no way out, yet, for sure, of uncertainty. 

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On 2/11/2021 at 6:16 AM, Joshpantera said:

 

Different people say different things. But when I was drowned or nearly drown surfing, I have no recollection whatsoever of any consciousness between the times that I was blacked out.

 

I was pinned to the sea floor. I fought until a gave up fighting. I went into peaceful mode and let go. I remember that. Then everything went black. I woke up coughing out water at the surface. I don't know how long I was down there or when I floated up. The experience of time ceased. I gave up, then some time must have passed, then I was at the surface. 

 

And that's the closest thing I have for personal experience of what death might be like. I weigh people's claims against what I experienced personally, which, wasn't glorious or horrific. It wasn't anything. It was black void of any experience or consciousness. 

 

No heavenly gates, no highway to hell. 

 

 

Thank you for sharing this.

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On 2/10/2021 at 11:16 PM, Joshpantera said:

when I was drowned or nearly drown surfing, I have no recollection whatsoever of any consciousness between


Undergoing general anesthesia several times in my life helped convince me of two things:  firstly, since the right chemicals can completely shut off my consciousness, there is likely no consciousness possible without the physical brain, so no immortal soul, most likely.   
 

Secondly, being unconscious is nothing like sleep.   It’s just... nothing.   No dreams, no pain, no worries, no missing loved ones.  And I believe that is how death will be also, as far as the mind is concerned.  So while the fear of death is real, and the act of dying can be drawn out and possibly painful, being dead is nothing to fear. 

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3 minutes ago, TABA said:

Secondly, being unconscious is nothing like sleep.   It’s just... nothing.   No dreams, no pain, no worries, no missing loved ones.  

 

This is very true. Haven't really thought of it like that. But I had a hand surgery as a teenager after I severed a tendon washing dishes at my job. They gave me the medicine asked me to count to 10 or something. The last thing I remember before everything going black was them wheeling me through a set of double doors. Then I was in recovery with my hand wrapped up in a brace. Nothing else, no dreams, no thoughts, just double doors then recovery. 

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