mwc Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, SuperBigV said: Yep, you are right. However, consider the element of control. Self driving vehicles are said to be safer vs the traditional vehicles. However, many people are scared of riding in the self driving vehicle because they relinquish control. And the chance of an accident is never zero percent. I think people that refuse vaccines have a similar thinking pattern. The risk of death from a vaccine is never zero and they would rather take their chances with nature. They've had that opportunity. We know what it's like taking our chances with this virus. The whole world has done this. It's no longer an unknown. We're also seeing the re-infections and the long-term affects from the virus starting to come into view and they don't look pretty. So, deaths aside, this virus is straight up ugly in every way. It's not something we're going to naturally deal with without a lot of pain, suffering and death over entire lifetimes. We can mitigate this with the vaccines. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 "Conservative", "liberal", "left-wing", "right-wing".. These terms are used as social weapons today. What do these words actually mean? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Krowb ◊ Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 We have become a people asserting rights against rights. Devolving into a rigid and legalistic society intent on jockeying for position within an increasingly complex hierarchy of "rights." They are a useful fiction, and nothing more. A right to do something does not mean it is without cost or consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Krowb said: ...within an increasingly complex hierarchy of "rights."... "Increasingly complex".. How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Krowb ◊ Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, alreadyGone said: "Increasingly complex".. How so? I should keep in mind that we have different backgrounds and specialties. Each year the case law, laws, regulations, and rules become more complex. Disputes regarding rights are resolved through legal and legislative means. Below is barely scratching the surface of how a miniscule sampling have recently(ish) been interpreted: The right to property vis a vis eminent domain - Kelo v City of New London (545 U.S. 469) The right to contract vis a vis a protected class - The Fair Housing Act, the Affordable Care Act, etc . . . The right to religious freedom vis a vis the rights afforded to employees under the ACA - Burwell v Hobby Lobby Stores (573 U.S. 682) Rights of parties are constantly being challenged either to do or to prevent some doing. The courts and legislatures step in to resolve these disputes and typically do so in a way that affirms certain rights, creates exceptions to those rights, and sometimes creating exceptions to exceptions. This is why Madison did not wish for a Bill of Rights. Though primarily credited - he wrote that a Bill of Rights would be perceived as "the" rights to the detriment of the innumerable rights reserved to the states and the people of those states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I don't think the complexity and variety of case law surrounding the exercise of rights and the conflicts which arise from that is the same as those rights themselves. The Bill Of Rights was, as you pointed out, not intended to be a comprehensive list of all rights held by the people. Nor is it so legally. The Ninth and Tenth Amendments are clear in this regard, with no ambiguity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Krowb ◊ Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I think we're getting pulled off course. My position is ultimately that rights are a useful fiction, nothing more. In disputes where both sides claim a right, the decision creates a hierarchy of when one right will predominate over another. The current thread topic raises the question regarding the right to free speech set against the right to contract (employment agreement) and touches on the right of free association (even assuming there is no explicit clause in the employment agreement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 An ACLU lawyer gives a very short chat (a couple minutes) on this issue. EDIT: I forgot I wanted to include this deeper dive into the 1st Amendment and free speech for those interested. mwc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted February 13, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: It brings me great pleasure to know I can lock, or even delete, this entire thread any time I want to. Me too me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted February 13, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Me too me too! Yeah, who started this dumb thread anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 13, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 For your further enlightenment and entertainment: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/jaysondbradley/2021/02/cancel-culture/?fbclid=IwAR2BVp4fkNPqDOZkGcXgR-GVyOuq7IZKCwC9a5nfhWkL1h46YDJQONedEBQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, alreadyGone said: "Conservative", "liberal", "left-wing", "right-wing".. These terms are used as social weapons today. What do these words actually mean? They mean "I checked a box" on a voter registrar form (or they were too lazy to register) but live no differently than anyone else. Perhaps there's a small philosophical difference...but it's blown out of proportion. Unless someone wears a political tshirt or a bumper sticker you may never really know their political standing because they live exactly the same way as you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 50 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Me too me too! Nobody here seems to understand that politics is directly related to wave/particle duality. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 11 hours ago, mwc said: Perhaps but she made these sorts of statements and you had said that only right wingers, such as she, were being silenced. It would only follow that this is these are the sorts of things you want associated with right wingers. Maybe she posted what she had for breakfast and I could include that as well but since that didn't seem to lead to her, or others like her, being fired I don't know if information like that really matters? I think it does boil down to the controversial. It's not a non-issue. It's an on-going issue. We will not stop vaccinating because we're short on vaccines. We'll produce more and people will need to take them. We need roughly 75-80% of people to take them to even hope for herd immunity on covid. Many of these people buy into "terrain theory" as opposed to germ theory and the spread of this long-debunked information is causing us on-going problems in this pandemic. Well, I have to wonder what those people were saying? I have to admit that I am shocked if they were "cancelled" for literally only posting things about job creation, government fiscal responsibility or lowering taxes. For some reason I suspect they wandered off into the weeds somewhere along the way. Now, if it were awhile back, especially if they were kids, then I think they should be allowed to make clear their position now. People can change. Even if someone says something now they should be allowed to clarify. Mistakes and misunderstandings can and do happen. The thing is many of these people tend to fall right back into their old habits so there's only so many times you can do this before you have to do something more drastic (ie. remove their post or account, fine them, fire them, etc.). We can't know what might have happened had Trump won again. We know that he was floating the idea of a rigged election long before the elections took place. However, had he won, he would not have used his megaphone to keep on repeating the lies that the election was rigged. "Q" and the rest would not have repeated those same lies. We would now need a new set of sources for the stolen election narrative. We'd also need Biden to never concede, just like Trump, so that it would even matter so that people might even be compelled to act. Or that Biden would have never addressed his electorate in the aftermath of the election in a way that was different from Trump. The idea that it would play out the same is unlikely. Though you do hit on the key ingredient and it's the spread of harmful misinformation. Had this alternate world happened and Biden's supporters been doing it then it all should have been blocked just as it was done to Trump's misinformation campaigners. It just so happened we didn't live through that reality. mwc We don't know if they would have stormed the capital, but we do know they would have rioted. They were rioting already when they thought he had won before all the results were in and several key states were still red. There is no doubt that there would have been more riots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 9 hours ago, ToHellWithMe said: Kathy Griffin also got fired from CNN in 2017 after she did a photoshoot where she held Donald Trump's bloody, severed head. Back then every other public personality seemed to be all but begging for someone to assassinate Donald Trump, but I guess it was the gruesome image going viral and re-printed everywhere that was finally seen as going too far. I suppose CNN cared for at least some appearance of political neutrality. Well ya got to admit that that is something you just don't do with anyone. Let alone the president of the United States. I dont think I could lump that in the same group as Carano, kaepernic, Rosanne barr, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted February 13, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 hours ago, TABA said: Yeah, who started this dumb thread anyway? Well it wasn't supposed to turn into a politico/freedom of speech thread but ya'll can't help yourselves. My other thread on Ravi Zacharias sexual abuse related to religion has two posts. This one has three pages! What can I say? People love star wars related stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted February 13, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 hours ago, midniterider said: Nobody here seems to understand that politics is directly related to wave/particle duality. Exactly. Why hasn't the quantum wave fluctuation of space/time within a partical duality not been discussed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted February 13, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, LogicalFallacy said: Exactly. Why has the quantum wave fluctuation of space/time within a partical duality not been discussed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted February 13, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Well it wasn't supposed to turn into a politico/freedom of speech thread... Hi, you must be new here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted February 13, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, TABA said: Hi, you must be new here! Lol I have a dream, that one day on this board we will be able to have a discussion while keeping politics out of it. I have a dream that members will not veer off to US constitutional stuff, I have a dream.... yeah nah my dreams are dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBigV Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 8 hours ago, alreadyGone said: "Conservative", "liberal", "left-wing", "right-wing".. These terms are used as social weapons today. What do these words actually mean? Good question. I've listened to Ben Shapiro a while ago, and he mentioned that in the US, the Republicans ("right-wingers") are typically anti mask mandates, but in Israel, it's the liberals who are anti masks. I have not verified this claim, to be honest, but I believe it because it matches with my experience. Tulsi Gabbard, a Democrat from Hawaii said that in Washington, new Dems and Republicans are told to block together. So they are voting for or a against along the party lines. Somethings, they vote NO on something they themselves pushed for earlier but now that it's being pushed by the other party, the vote must be no. Personally, I do like Conservative values, but I'm seeing value in both parties. I am with US Conservatives on gun rights, for example, but I'm with the Democrats on Healthcare. I think there should be as little Government interference as possible, but ONLY when it comes to small businesses. Large businesses should have as much Government as possible, which is something Dems would probably agree with, but not the mainstream, maybe AOC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 "Conservative", and "liberal" are thrown around all the time as if they were definitive.. used conversationally as if they were definitive when in fact both terms are meaningless, absent a surrounding context. It's a commonplace subtle form of manipulation by obfuscation.. The speaker just expects and presumes that you've already agreed with him on the meaning of either word. Remind you of anything? "Spiritual.." , when no one has established that such a thing as a human spirit, or a god, or angels, or devils even exist. Etc etc etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted February 14, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted February 14, 2021 Am I conservative or liberal? Well it depends on the subject matter really. I'm conservative on some things, liberal on others. About sums it up I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 And meanwhile the lawyers are getting rich with all the crap going on. They are the ones writing all the laws to be argued about. I tell my lawyer friend he is part of a conspiracy to help lawyers make more money. He laughs and says, "you got it!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 By the way. My wife and I got our virus shots last week, and the only down side was a slightly sore spot where they gave the injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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