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I thinking of becoming christian but want to here from Exs first


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So sorry guys it’s been like a hella while since I last blogged just been very busy yah know. If there was like an app it be easier for me. Anyways, as some of you know I’m a potential christian, I’ve been asking ex Christians I know why the think it’s wrong for awhile now so I could make an educated desistion on my worldview. My Q for today is, if anyone has found a better theory for the Ressurection of Christ yet? So far other explanations aren’t very convincing for me. And please don’t attack me I’m not here to convert nobody, I just have honest questions and concerns I wanna talk to someone about without being seen as a stupid monster.

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3 hours ago, poci said:

anyone has found a better theory for the Ressurection of Christ yet?

You do know it's just a story and not an historical event, right?

 

https://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/lecture.html

 

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2 hours ago, florduh said:

You do know it's just a story and not an historical event, right?

If that were true I’d obviously wouldn’t be going to Christianity would I? What’s your theory? 

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Since there have been no cases where a human has been clearly shown to have returned to life after death, I’m convinced it is impossible.  Now we know that the belief developed in certain quarters in the 1st and 2nd centuries CE that a man named Jesus had returned from death.  And today hundreds of millions believe it.  
 

The belief also developed in other quarters in the 7th century that a man named Muhammad travelled from Jerusalem to Heaven on a winged horse.  And today hundreds of millions believe that. 
 

So if you are inclined to believe in Christianity, I would ask you why you are inclined to believe that Jesus rose form the dead.  Like Muhammad and his fantastic journey, why should it be believed?

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10 hours ago, poci said:

If that were true I’d obviously wouldn’t be going to Christianity would I? What’s your theory? 

My theory is that you simply want to believe despite the fact that there is no evidence for it.

 

But why ask only about the resurrection story? Why not the talking snake? The loaves and fishes? The burning bush? The walk on water? 

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1 hour ago, TABA said:

Since there have been no cases where a human has been clearly shown to have returned to life after death, I’m convinced it is impossible.  Now we know that the belief developed in certain quarters in the 1st and 2nd centuries CE that a man named Jesus had returned from death.  And today hundreds of millions believe it.  
 

The belief also developed in other quarters in the 7th century that a man named Muhammad travelled from Jerusalem to Heaven on a winged horse.  And today hundreds of millions believe that. 
 

So if you are inclined to believe in Christianity, I would ask you why you are inclined to believe that Jesus rose form the dead.  Like Muhammad and his fantastic journey, why should it be believed?

Because of the EVIDENCE, and There’s been plenty cases. No I’m not gonna give it to you. I’m just looking for counter evidence for the piles evidence we have for Christianity. If you don’t know about it just look it up. I’m to busy right now to go over the data. Plus peps in the other comments have and are gonna continue saying hurtful stuff to me, and idk how much I can take. This might not be the place to receive help or anything healthy.

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I’m sure there are STORIES of people being raised from the dead.  The old B&W Frankenstein and Dracula movies are great, but they’re just stories too.  In reality, people do not come back from the dead, period.  
 

If you want to know why we no longer believe in Christianity or the Bible-god, then this recent post is a good summary of the main reasons...

 

 

Christianity does not even come close to being demonstrably true.  But plenty of people believe it anyway, just as plenty of people believe in Islam and other religions.  That’s what faith is.  If you want to believe, feel free.  It’s just not belief grounded in reality. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, poci said:

a better theory for the Resurection of Christ

There are a few commonly held ideas about the story of the resurrection outside of it being a miracle (which we only have the doubtful word of the bible, a book written by unknown authors, at unknown dates, for unknown reasons).  The mythicist view is that Jesus probably didn't exist at all, based on his similarity to earlier god-man stories, lack of physical evidence and lack of contemporary writings.  The only writings of Jesus were at best decades, if not centuries after his claimed death.

The more common view was that it was a mundane event that had later stories told about it, and supernatural claims attached.  It is quite believable that a Jewish preacher called Jesus existed, had a sect of followers and was arrested and executed.  What became of the body?  Perhaps buried, taken by his followers, interred into a mass grave for criminals as the Roman's usually did or burnt on a pyre.  With no physical body his followers could make all sorts of claims and with no one else there to check those stories, they were accepted and elaborated on.

The third option I'll mention is the belief of some small sects of Christians that Jesus survived the crucifixion.  He was not up on the cross long enough to die naturally, and his legs were not broken like the other criminals.  They also mention that when he was stabbed in the side the blood flowed, this could be a sign the heart still beats.  If his followers managed to take him down before he died, then nurse him back to health, so that he rose a few days later from his death bed, then they would need to hide him and rush him away to avoid the Romans returning to finish the job.  The sects claim that he fled to India where he lived out the rest of his life preaching.  There is a tomb in India which is claimed to contain the remains of Jesus: Tomb Of Jesus In India

 

So maybe he didn't exist, maybe it was a purely mundane event or perhaps he survived and fled.  All options that do not require any supernatural input and are therefore more likely than miracles occurring.

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On 2/24/2021 at 11:29 AM, poci said:

My Q for today is, if anyone has found a better theory for the Ressurection of Christ yet?

 

Do you ever ask if anyone has found a better theory for how Muhammed rode to Jerusalem on a winged horse and split the moon?

 

If your answer is to scoff and say "that's just a made up story", congratulations you've found your answer for the so called resurrection.

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4 hours ago, poci said:

No I’m not gonna give it to you. I’m just looking for counter evidence for the piles evidence we have for Christianity. If you don’t know about it just look it up. I’m to busy right now to go over the data.

 

Poci,

 

I'm not trying to hurt you or belittle you but this statement isn't logical. You state that there is tons of evidence but you are unwilling to provide links or references to said evidence. We can't read minds. You would have to do your own diligence in supporting your statements just as we try to. You need to tell us what evidence your referring to so that we can point you in the right direction. 

 

From our point of view there isn't enough evidence. Please tell us what evidence you think there is. 

 

DB

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5 hours ago, poci said:

Because of the EVIDENCE, and There’s been plenty cases. No I’m not gonna give it to you. I’m just looking for counter evidence for the piles evidence we have for Christianity.

 

You don't have any clue right now how misinformed you are. There are not piles of evidence for christianity!!! 

 

I know that because I personally debate christian apologists. During those debates, I ask them for their evidence and they fail to provide it. So I'm quite aware of the lack of positive evidence because I'm right on top of the issue. 

 

You are glancing at people claiming that they have evidence and accepting their claims at face value. You are not debating them and holding their feet to fire like myself and other ex christians do very regularly. So your subjective analysis is that there's tons of evidence for christianity, when, in reality, there is not. It's all fluff. All of it. If you want to know for yourself what's fluff and what isn't, well, you have to do the work. You have to engage the debates. And get your own hands dirty trying sort out what's demonstrably true and what's demonstrably false. 

 

If you want to learn this lesson, you can try and debate any one of us on the truth of christianity. Where you are in the hot seat trying prove that christianity is true. Only then will you see and understand how impossible it is to prove christianity true. No one has ever accomplished it. And if you are trying to be honest with yourself, the exercise could be a major wake up call. Because right now you are far, far away from the truth of the issue....

 

It HAS to start at the beginning with Genesis. 

 

Here's a preview of one of my debates with a christian apologist challenged to demonstrate the TRUTH of the bible starting from the beginning: 

 

 

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12 hours ago, poci said:

Because of the EVIDENCE, and There’s been plenty cases. No I’m not gonna give it to you. I’m just looking for counter evidence for the piles evidence we have for Christianity. If you don’t know about it just look it up. I’m to busy right now to go over the data. Plus peps in the other comments have and are gonna continue saying hurtful stuff to me, and idk how much I can take. This might not be the place to receive help or anything healthy.

 

There's nothing better than feeling afraid and ashamed and guilty every day. That's Christianity. So enjoy yourself. Be a Christian. 

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I hope you are ok :)

Prologue. You would do well to research judaism and muslim refutations of christian dogma. They have been at it for many centuries so that is one of the best places to find anti christian points.

     So, the evidence for the resurection I have heard are mostly 1. So many people believe it, to the point of millions dieing for it. Well, the counter is that,  in sheer numbers, most of Earth 's population does not believe it, and those who do, have different opinions about it. - how, why it happened. Also, the ONLY abrahamic faith that says it preserves the original Hebrew Bible - Judaism, rejects the and Christianity in general. Other large Churches use as a main source 1. The Greek Septuagint 2. Latin Vulgate 3. Aramaic Peshitta 4. Ethiopian Geez 5. Coptic. All modern vernacular versions are based on these and the before mentioned Judaic Masoretic text.

      2. Personal mystical exp ( NDE, dreams, feelings, etc). These are common exp in humanity from many if not all cultures. And they have diff content.

       3. Very and I mean VERY little material evidence. The writen sources are mostly the Gospels and epistles. Maybe smth from Josephus. But there were so called serious historians , Tacitus I don t remember exactly, that wrote that in India there is a people with only one big foot. So trusting ancient sources, all of them, is a bit..difficult. The archaeology is basically non existent and there is nothing you COULD find that proves ressurection anyway . Like electromagnetic remains or what? You can find people today that believe their spiritual master is God or a prophet or..Plus in those times, gods and hero stories were the norm. So accepting ressurection story was not such a big leap.

       But pls show me the evidence. I would gladly want to know it and the truth.

       The thing is, even if the ressurection is true, its process and meaning still remain a question. It would not prove the rest of the Bible or the dogma. 

       So I remain unconvinced so far.

       But I think one does NOT need an alternate theory in order to reject the theory in question

     

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Did Jesus Exist? - YouTube

 

This seems like a nice video on the topic of the historicity of Jesus. It seems pretty researched and non biased for the most part and does seem to want to impose a view necessarily.

     By the way, I am no expert and do not claim.certainty, I do not even claim rigorous prolongued study - I have not gone to Jerusalem for example altough I would like to even know. 

      But my time and energy is limited. What and how and why to deal with that is another subject altogether.

 

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1 hour ago, Mrjukes21 said:

what do you have to say about the comments that say jesus is real?

The majority of people, both Christian and atheist, think that Jesus probably did exist. The question is whether he was just a charismatic preacher or something supernatural. 

The mythicists position has to prove a negative, which is a hard thing to do in this case. There is enough of an argument to leave a degree of doubt, but not enough to be a clear cut case. 

Personally the charismatic preacher theory seems most likely, as this fits with how cults commonly grow (John Smith, Ron Hubbard, Muhammed, Jonestown etc). 

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