I’m leaving, everyone was a jerk

[poci]

I do want groups like this to stay alive because I belive they are doing very good help to the exchristians who have been threw struggles and deceit and more. I came here myself with struggles and doubts but on the opposite end. I knew it would be weird and peps might’ve suspected me to preach but I’m just a plain theist searching for life’s meaning and wanted help with my questions. I understand not everybody thinks there is objective meaning or duties etc but I was hoping just for a welcoming discussion about it with care and concern but I received the exact opposite. People here especially the atheists were very hostile, rude, mocking me, and could care less if I get run over by a car tommorw. I am very hurt and crying as I text this. I get the hint I’m a piece of dumb shit to you guys. I will leave, just somebody kill me

[florduh]

What the hell, you want us to discuss Biblical folklore as if it were verified history and scientific fact? Make your point, defend it, but expect some push back from those who disagree with your premise or "facts." Drama queen. Sheesh.

 

 

[Joshpantera]

8 hours ago, poci said:

I do want groups like this to stay alive because I belive they are doing very good help to the exchristians who have been threw struggles and deceit and more. I came here myself with struggles and doubts but on the opposite end. I knew it would be weird and peps might’ve suspected me to preach but I’m just a plain theist searching for life’s meaning and wanted help with my questions. I understand not everybody thinks there is objective meaning or duties etc but I was hoping just for a welcoming discussion about it with care and concern but I received the exact opposite. People here especially the atheists were very hostile, rude, mocking me, and could care less if I get run over by a car tommorw. I am very hurt and crying as I text this. I get the hint I’m a piece of dumb shit to you guys. I will leave, just somebody kill me

 

This entire emotional episode is uncalled for....

 

You have to learn this if you expect to function in today's society. You have to try and face both christians and ex christians in this world. Especially when YOU PETITION the advice of ex christians about the truth of christianity on a site like this. I already told you, if you honestly want to know what is and isn't true about christianity and the bible we'll stick you into a debate (it can be casual) where you will be challenged to prove the truth of christian claims. So that you can witness for yourself the futility of the christian arguments. And others reading along can take a lesson from it as well. 

 

This isn't about calling you a "dumb shit" or anything like that.

 

It's simply you asking for truth, then agreeing to play devil's advocate in a structured exercise so that you can see for yourself WHY we believe that christianity is false. When you cite christian arguments and authorities the push back will reveal to you what's WRONG with those arguments and authorities. Again, this isn't to call you stupid. It's to give you a valuable education for free. And it's valuable to know and understand the truth about these issues. 

 

If you're not honestly interested, well, here's your hat and there's the door. 

 

Good luck! 

 

 

 

 

[Wertbag]

9 hours ago, poci said:

People here especially the atheists were very hostile, rude, mocking me

I'm sorry you feel that way, I haven't seen any rude or abusive posts, I've looked back over your introduction and everyone seemed very cheerful and welcoming.  Certainly lots of questions were asked, but even those were done without personal insult.

The moderators on here are usually very vigilant about personal attacks and that is not tolerated.  If you can let us know what has upset you then perhaps we can help?  

[midniterider]

11 hours ago, poci said:

I am very hurt and crying as I text this. I get the hint I’m a piece of dumb shit to you guys. I will leave, just somebody kill me

 

And then the pastor of your new Christian church said , "Poci, you're a sinner and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23.

 

This may be helpful. It wasnt written by any of us evil people here.

 

https://stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

With your extra long list of interests, i would think you have plenty to give your life meaning.  Best wishes! 

[TABA]

10 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

This isn't about calling you a "dumb shit" or anything like that.

 

It's simply you asking for truth, then agreeing to play devil's advocate in a structured exercise so that you can see for yourself WHY we believe that christianity is false. When you cite christian arguments and authorities the push back will reveal to you what's WRONG with those arguments and authorities. Again, this isn't to call you stupid. It's to give you a valuable education for free. And it's valuable to know and understand the truth about these issues. 

 

Poci, you would be wise to listen to Joshpantera’s words above.  It’s good  you are interested in hearing from the opposition side before deciding to become a Christian.  You came to the right place for that.  I don’t think anybody here intended to be mean to you, by the way: you may be a bit sensitive to people’s tones.  

 

If you were to take up his suggestion and engage in a discussion here, with you presenting the best arguments for Christianity and one or more of us making the case against, then if you decided that the case FOR Christianity made more sense, you could become a Christian with your belief built on a decent foundation.  If you skip that step, if you don’t subject Christian claims to scrutiny, then you are not doing yourself a favor and your future as a Christian would be on shaky ground.  

 

In spite of how it seemed to you, we DO care about you.  We know that people are better off when they know WHY they believe - or don’t believe.  We’re ready and willing to help there, if you are willing to subject this belief system to scrutiny and testing. 

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

@poci Can you cite specific examples with links to posts of said Jerkiness? 

 

From the posts I read and interactions I had everyone was polite and went to great lengths to explain their viewpoint. 

 

In fact the only person who refused to engage properly was you, poci. I remember Wertbag and I were trying to get clarification about what you meant in the supernatural thread and you flat out refused to answer. I know because I tried multiple times to get clarification.

 

I don't like it when people come here, ask questions, don't receive answers they like then get all precious about it. It takes considerable time and effort to write a decent post and to then turn around and call members jerks because you weren't personally satisfied is not on.

 

If you are honestly searching for the truth then stick around. If not then goodbye.

[Astreja]

Telling a group of ex-Christians that the mythology they dumped was real is not a good idea.  Of course you're going to get pushback!  It's analogous to walking into an AA meeting and telling them that booze is good for them and that they were wrong to give it up.  We've worked very hard to put Christianity behind us, and in fact many of us are still working on it.  

 

Judging from how deeply this affected you, I don't think we can help you at this time and that leaving (at least for a while) will be more helpful than arguing with us.

 

 

[Christianchat_Chat]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:21 AM, TABA said:

 

It’s good  you are interested in hearing from the opposition side before deciding to become a Christian.  You came to the right place for that.

 

 

this might be true in ways, and yet...

 

the problem with talking to many Christians is that if you differ too much from their ponts of views on religion they will 'turn' in ways against you.  many times i have seen quite similar (and worse) type of behaviour on this site towards Christians.. and a general lack often of not wanting to even consider the other's (Christians) viewpoints at ALL.  which while understandable if you disbelieve in something strongly - does not really open the door (in kindness and mutual consideration of the other) or set the example of how one would want themselves and their views to be treated - with respect (at least some) and consideration. 

[Christianchat_Chat]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:01 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

@poci Can you cite specific examples with links to posts of said Jerkiness? 

 

From the posts I read and interactions I had everyone was polite and went to great lengths to explain their viewpoint. 

 

 

i would agree, i think.  i did not get the sense of people being un-nice to them, though i have not read every post and i am not poci.  online talking can be quite difficult, though i know.  so different from in person talking where you hear their voice.  you do not know the intent always. 

[LogicalFallacy]

12 minutes ago, Christianchat_Chat said:

 and a general lack often of not wanting to even consider the other's (Christians) viewpoints at ALL.  which while understandable if you disbelieve in something strongly - does not really open the door (in kindness and mutual consideration of the other) or set the example of how one would want themselves and their views to be treated - with respect (at least some) and consideration. 

 

Or of course, it is quite possible that we have considered the Christian viewpoint - us being EX-CHRISTIANS and all, and we find nothing new in arguments from Christians. In fact quite often we just get horse shit poked at us. I've been 4 years on this site give or take. I have yet to have a Christian come up with an argument I haven't heard before (and usually better presented than presented here) or provide anything approaching evidence of their claims. 

[Christianchat_Chat]

@LogicalFallacy

 

 

this is what many Christians lack, i believe.  you may want to put this quote on the front page of this site, or talk about this concept always/often... a thought anyways...

 

 

Quote > He who knows not...

 

 

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; avoid him.

He who knows not and knows that he knows not is a student; teach him

 

 

the other two lines of the quote (or especially the last) - it is debatable who they are, or if they exist.  but if we never realize in life and or thought the first part... well it can seem like a lost cause to others who try to help us.

[LogicalFallacy]

The fool hath said in their heart there is no God. The gullible hath said in their heart I know God for I have faith. The wise hath said in their heart the believer sayeth there is God, yet they do not provide evidence. 

[Christianchat_Chat]

12 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

The fool hath said in their heart there is no God. The gullible hath said in their heart I know God for I have faith. The wise hath said in their heart the believer sayeth there is God, yet they do not provide evidence. 

 

is that by you?

 

there might be evidence, but we might have to learn to think differently to discover it. 

 

[midniterider]

17 hours ago, Christianchat_Chat said:

 

this might be true in ways, and yet...

 

the problem with talking to many Christians is that if you differ too much from their ponts of views on religion they will 'turn' in ways against you.  many times i have seen quite similar (and worse) type of behaviour on this site towards Christians.. and a general lack often of not wanting to even consider the other's (Christians) viewpoints at ALL.  which while understandable if you disbelieve in something strongly - does not really open the door (in kindness and mutual consideration of the other) or set the example of how one would want themselves and their views to be treated - with respect (at least some) and consideration. 

 

I try to make my responses to people along the same tone/attitude as theirs. My attitude also kind of follows the guidelines of the subforum they are in. (Sometimes I forget which subforum I am in, also.) Though I admit it's fun to be a smart ass, or snarky, or try to be funny. 

 

Regarding Christian visitors, BrotherMario came in as a condescending turd and remained about the same for his whole stay. LuthAMF was similar. And then recently, the Christian PittsburghJoe, who was fascinated/obsessed by quantum mechanics seemed locked into his alternate Christian beliefs. A recurring theme with some of the nastier Christian personalities that visit is the false authority they tend to display. 

 

The purpose of the website is to help people leave the Christian faith and give those who have left the faith some emotional support. And so we generally are empathetic and try to be helpful to these people. 

 

I believe the subforum, Lion's Den , while not part of the primary mission of deconverting Christians, provides a place for Christians with strong evangelical leanings and strong personalities to have a place to say their peace without disrupting the rest of the site. And it also has the side benefit of putting on display some of the mental gymnastics and illogic that Christians tend to employ to make their faith seem plausible. 

 

Not sure what Poci's deal was, really..besides being overly dramatic. 

 

...

 

Now my viewpoint is that Jesus, Satan, Hell, Heaven are fiction. Would you be willing to consider my viewpoint for say, 60 seconds? 

[LogicalFallacy]

56 minutes ago, midniterider said:

Now my viewpoint is that Jesus, Satan, Hell, Heaven are fiction. Would you be willing to consider my viewpoint for say, 60 seconds? 

 

Exactly! 100 points to you my man!

 

Christians will ask what would convince you God is real. And an answer is usually given along the lines of convincing evidence etc. When they question is thrown back in reverse often the answer is along the lines of "I know God is real" or nothing can convince me God doesn't exist. A wee bit dishonest I think.

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, Christianchat_Chat said:

 

is that by you?

 

there might be evidence, but we might have to learn to think differently to discover it. 

 

 

 

Well obviously the first part is a direct quote of the bible, then I add my take to it, so yes, mostly me.

 

Also you can touch a star if you got close enough... but you'd probably die, unless we develop extraordinary technology. But there is nothing intrinsically within physics that says you cannot touch stars, so that quote in relation to what we are talking about falls flat. We all know stars exist. Now provide similar evidence for God. I'll wait.

[Christianchat_Chat]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:39 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Well obviously the first part is a

quote of the bible, then I add my take to it, so yes, mostly me.

 

yes

 

 

On 3/2/2021 at 6:39 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

Also you can touch a star if you got close enough... but you'd probably die, unless we develop extraordinary technology. But there is nothing intrinsically within physics that says you cannot touch stars, so that quote in relation to what we are talking about falls flat.

I'm surprised that you took it that way.

 

On 3/2/2021 at 6:39 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

We all know stars exist. Now provide similar evidence for God. I'll wait.

i would not stay waiting too long, in case i might be stuck in error or lack.. and going where (not to the stars)?  what do you want to believe?  and why?

"Reality… is always a question mark,And you are the one always answering that question…

with your Attention."

[LogicalFallacy]

10 hours ago, Christianchat_Chat said:

I would not stay waiting too long, in case i might be stuck in error or lack.. and going where (not to the stars)?  what do you want to believe?  and why?

 

Why not? If you don't have sufficient evidence to warrant belief in a claim it's no use just believing because you might miss out. This leads down the road of Pascals wager in which he entirely fails to consider that its not the choice between no God and his God, but no God/s and any potential God or gods out of thousands ever conceived and still to be conceived.

 

I don't "want" to believe anything. What I want is for my belief's to comport with reality as close as possible. I note the quote you use - it strikes me as a bit of a deepity - something that on the surface appears to be a deep thought, but really doesn't mean much. While there are assumptions we have to make (E.g. you and I share the same reality) upon making those assumptions we can indeed make the assertion that we have a shared reality, and that there are things about this reality upon which we can agree.

[Joshpantera]

On 3/2/2021 at 5:19 PM, Christianchat_Chat said:

there might be evidence, but we might have to learn to think differently to discover it. 

 

I assume that you must get something out of posting here in this community. You've been sticking around a while. Granted, you have not taken a similar path to the usual christians who come here trying to fight hard or prove things that are beyond proving. 

 

When you say, "there might be evidence," I take that to mean that you do understand that the evidence is currently off the table? As in no one has this evidence right now in order to present the conclusive evidence? Certainly not you? 

 

You seem to think in terms of the evidence being out there somewhere, currently out of reach. Requiring new thinking in order to try and locate the 'potential evidence.' That's much closer to an intellectually honest position than most christians who come here. They won't admit that the conclusive evidence IS currently lacking. 

 

So let me ask you something, have we been getting through to you in any way? As in are you learning anything from being here and witnessing the discussions and debates? 

[Myrkhoos]

I am sorry, poci, you feel that way. But I get the feeling you are hypersensitive towards some things. Maybe you have traumatic triggers. This is not a joke or an attack. Many people suffer emotional dysregulation and traumatic triggers, some here on this site have suffered or are suffering because of their XP in Christianity. And if youccanot handle moderately intense arguing, irony and sarcasm I would highly recommend you reflect on your psychological state bk it will be very hard to handle any human relationship without a moderate form of resilience. If you ask, maybe ppl on this site can offer pointers how to obtain just that. Also, take into account that many people here are or were hurt by Christianity, or at least feel that way, either badly or just lost time. So you can bring up strong emotions. Like was said, you can expect ex alcholics to feel strongly about alchohol use.