Destroying the body, save the soul

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Greetings everyone,

 

Maybe this is more appropriate in theological issues. If it is just move it. But I figured this may also be a part of someone's exchristian life. I have heard it said many times while I was a Christian that sometimes with lost loved ones you have to let God destroy the body to save the soul. The scripture used for this is in 1 Corinthians chapter 5. 

 

"3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

 

The modern use I've heard was that if a person resisted gods holy spirit that God would begin destroying that persons body, getting them to apoint that they would repent and come back. Thus saving the soul or spirit. 

 

So I thought to myself. 1) is there anyone here that has heard this and fears it. 2) how many Christian trolls read our posts and try to say "yep see God is punishing them because they left." And 3) what can I say to help someone dealing with this and refute those that wish it upon us. 

 

For my number 1 thought. I can't speak for anyone else. But I could see how someone looking at some of my posts concerning my wife or heart problems a couple years ago might think this about me.

 

So my #2 point for any Christians watching. I would like to shut that down on my part anyway. Because as far as my heart problems. Its genetic. It runs in my family and I'm over weight. It had nothing to do with my deconversion. The issue with my wife. Yes it has had something to do with my deconversion but only because she can no longer see past our differences. 

 

Here is another story to dispell that line of thinking. When I was an avid church goer it seemed like nothing ever worked out right. When I left the church bc of my questioning thoughts things started looking up for me. I got a better job. And have continually been able to move up until now. I make about 13 more on the hour than when I was Christian. It was enough to (at the time) make me think Jesus was blessing me for leaving the church. I thought wow. He doesn't even want me there. He punishes me if I go. And blesses me when I leave. I was actually to a point that I feared going to church because I thought God just didn't like me. I know now that it was me that made my life better. Every interview up until that point I always tried to plug God or Christianity in there like it was a selling point for them to hire me. After I left the church tho I interviewed only focusing on my own merits. And i prospered. It was me. I did it. Not God, not Jesus, me. 

 

Now lastly. If there is someone here. Maybe a new deconvert or a questioning christian. Don't worry about this. For one I'm pretty sure it is taken out of context anyway. It is a letter to an ancient church that probably no longer exists, referring to a member that had sexual intercourse with his father's wife. I'm assuming step mom from the wording.... but I dunno. It was a couple thousand years ago and my 29x great grandfather didn't know them personally LoL.   

 

As far as saving the spirit I believe it was referring to the church. The writer (presumably Paul) was saying that if they let this type of behavior go on it would destroy the spirit in the church. If you read further it says. 

 

"6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

 

Basically saying if you allow this to continue in the church it will spread amongst the rest of the body. It is likening that person to yeast. Yeast makes all of the bread rise. Not just part of it. It is directly relating this issue to the holy "unleavened bread" of passover in the old testament. Saying not to have sin amongst your members in the church. 

 

EDIT: There is also no need to worry since.... well.... since the bible is just a bunch of unprovable BS anyway.  Just do your research and keep your head high. Knowledge is power. Keep growing in it and the real truth and notions like these will disappear. 

 

a person can use the Bible to justify or condemn anyone especially if its taken out of context with snippets of scripture. Most of my life I listened to preachers read two or three verses and then spin a whole new doctrine based on their personal convictions. Many times not even biblical in nature. Beware the wolves in sheep's clothing. they are especially rampant in all of christendom.

 

Best regards,

 

Dark Bishop

[♦ Fuego ♦]

The flip-flop approach to God's blessing/curse suits religion fine because it is a shell game that they (the ones in charge) never lose. When you said "He punishes me if I go. And blesses me when I leave", it reminded me of Jeremiah 44 where the people told him that they were prospering fine when they were pagans, but when they turned back to Yahweh he destroyed their country. So of course Jerry finds a way to blame them for the war, saying god had been showing them mercy and prosperity to draw them back, and then had enough of their shit and ruined them. He never told them this at the time because he's their secret pal, or something. But he's a psychotic secret pal, so here's an invading army to hurt you instead of him hurting you, but it's still really him... Where's the pea?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Likewise, my life was a waking nightmare as a christian; but has gotten exponentially better since leaving.  At first, my mother's apologetic for this was that Satan is causing me to prosper in order to keep me deceived.  But I've been through some pretty rough patches since leaving the church, too, which gives the lie to that idea.  I guess it really just boils down to how we interact with life and respond to our circumstances.  Shame, though; I really wanted Satan to bless me.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On the other side of that coin, in the early days of my deconversion, I used to say that I'd gladly sell my soul to the devil if, in five year's time, I was rich and powerful.  Most believers would retort that the devil already had my soul, so it wasn't worth his effort to give me anything in return.

[florduh]

54 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

On the other side of that coin, in the early days of my deconversion, I used to say that I'd gladly sell my soul to the devil if, in five year's time, I was rich and powerful.  Most believers would retort that the devil already had my soul, so it wasn't worth his effort to give me anything in return.

I never wanted to play the fiddle, so I had no use for the devil. Or Georgia, for that matter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

I never wanted to play the fiddle, so I had no use for the devil. Or Georgia, for that matter.

 

I told ya once ya sumbich.

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Well what can I say? Its not hard to make the devil your bitch when your an ExChristian from Georgia

 

And I'm not even a fiddle player lol

 

I've been looking for a new background meme. I think I'll make that one mine. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

34 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Its not hard to make the devil your bitch when your an ExChristian from Georgia

Damn straight.  Especially us Coweta County boys.

[sdelsolray]

22 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Greetings everyone,

 

Maybe this is more appropriate in theological issues. If it is just move it. But I figured this may also be a part of someone's exchristian life. I have heard it said many times while I was a Christian that sometimes with lost loved ones you have to let God destroy the body to save the soul. The scripture used for this is in 1 Corinthians chapter 5. 

 

"3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

 

The modern use I've heard was that if a person resisted gods holy spirit that God would begin destroying that persons body, getting them to apoint that they would repent and come back. Thus saving the soul or spirit. 

 

So I thought to myself. 1) is there anyone here that has heard this and fears it. 2) how many Christian trolls read our posts and try to say "yep see God is punishing them because they left." And 3) what can I say to help someone dealing with this and refute those that wish it upon us. 

 

For my number 1 thought. I can't speak for anyone else. But I could see how someone looking at some of my posts concerning my wife or heart problems a couple years ago might think this about me.

 

So my #2 point for any Christians watching. I would like to shut that down on my part anyway. Because as far as my heart problems. Its genetic. It runs in my family and I'm over weight. It had nothing to do with my deconversion. The issue with my wife. Yes it has had something to do with my deconversion but only because she can no longer see past our differences. 

 

Here is another story to dispell that line of thinking. When I was an avid church goer it seemed like nothing ever worked out right. When I left the church bc of my questioning thoughts things started looking up for me. I got a better job. And have continually been able to move up until now. I make about 13 more on the hour than when I was Christian. It was enough to (at the time) make me think Jesus was blessing me for leaving the church. I thought wow. He doesn't even want me there. He punishes me if I go. And blesses me when I leave. I was actually to a point that I feared going to church because I thought God just didn't like me. I know now that it was me that made my life better. Every interview up until that point I always tried to plug God or Christianity in there like it was a selling point for them to hire me. After I left the church tho I interviewed only focusing on my own merits. And i prospered. It was me. I did it. Not God, not Jesus, me. 

 

Now lastly. If there is someone here. Maybe a new deconvert or a questioning christian. Don't worry about this. For one I'm pretty sure it is taken out of context anyway. It is a letter to an ancient church that probably no longer exists, referring to a member that had sexual intercourse with his father's wife. I'm assuming step mom from the wording.... but I dunno. It was a couple thousand years ago and my 29x great grandfather didn't know them personally LoL.   

 

As far as saving the spirit I believe it was referring to the church. The writer (presumably Paul) was saying that if they let this type of behavior go on it would destroy the spirit in the church. If you read further it says. 

 

"6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

 

Basically saying if you allow this to continue in the church it will spread amongst the rest of the body. It is likening that person to yeast. Yeast makes all of the bread rise. Not just part of it. It is directly relating this issue to the holy "unleavened bread" of passover in the old testament. Saying not to have sin amongst your members in the church. 

 

EDIT: There is also no need to worry since.... well.... since the bible is just a bunch of unprovable BS anyway.  Just do your research and keep your head high. Knowledge is power. Keep growing in it and the real truth and notions like these will disappear. 

 

a person can use the Bible to justify or condemn anyone especially if its taken out of context with snippets of scripture. Most of my life I listened to preachers read two or three verses and then spin a whole new doctrine based on their personal convictions. Many times not even biblical in nature. Beware the wolves in sheep's clothing. they are especially rampant in all of christendom.

 

Best regards,

 

Dark Bishop

 

The fundamental issue contained in your post is the human tendency to assign causal agency to events.  Causal agency assignments can be correct, they can be incorrect or they can be unknown.

 

Over the years, I have observed most theists are taught to assign causal agency to the sky fairies they are taught to believe in, e.g., gods, demons, angels, sprites, etc.  Secular folks tend to assign causal agency with use of standard critical thinking skills, often assisted with scientific understandings they have been taught, and often do not assign causal agency when they do not have sufficient information to make a causal agency assignment.

 

Your post contains many examples of theistic assignments and a few secular ones.

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:48 PM, DarkBishop said:

The modern use I've heard was that if a person resisted gods holy spirit that God would begin destroying that persons body, getting them to apoint that they would repent and come back. Thus saving the soul or spirit. 

That reminds me of a kind of "health, wealth, and prosperity" gospel that's popular in some churches. Churches like that tend to kick out members who become ill or meet financial hardships, accusing them of having lost their faith in God. More likely, they become less useful for financial donations when they're sick or poor.

 

The Christians I grew up with were often physically ill and had financial hardships, so they were weary of this type of teaching. Actually, their attitude was the reverse: If you're healthy and successful, then clearly you are sinful and evil, because "real Christians" are persecuted and the world belongs to the devil. Illness is frequently referred to as having the function of testing their faith, and a reminder of a hope and optimism of a better, eternal afterlife (not as evidence that they were spiritually astray).

 

That is to say, everyone makes up an interpretation that makes themselves look better than everyone else. Wealthy healthy Christians argue that their wealth and health prove they are great Christians. Poor and unhealthy Christians argue that their poverty and illness is proof they are great Christians. It's all baloney.