The Fermi Paradox

[TheDeconvertedMan]

5 hours ago, florduh said:

The American People have consistently encountered a lying government. Somehow we never take them to task, so they keep doing it. This is no different than their denial of secret experiments done on citizens, illegal surveillance, war crimes, etc.

This statement is 100% true. I'm wondering if the success of taking them to task depends on a greater number of people taking them to task. Isolated individuals and small groups definitely try, but they end up censored, silenced, or even sometimes "suicided." So I'm wondering if an ET revelation will be big enough and paradigm shattering enough to have a majority of people finally say, "Hey, y'all lying sacks of shit, no more!"

[florduh]

29 minutes ago, TheDeconvertedMan said:

...big enough and paradigm shattering enough...

I don't really know why but I believe most people would not perceive the revelation as game changing or paradigm shattering. Of course it would be, but I think we are just too damn numb.

[Joshpantera]

It should devastate christianity. But probably what would happen is that apologist's would quickly start claiming the bible predicted it all.

 

In the SDA church they told us that ufo's and aliens are a trick of the devil trying to keep us distracted from jesus........

 

[florduh]

10 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

It should devastate christianity.

Geology, biology, astrophysics, simple observation, common sense and reality itself, not to mention actually reading the Bible, should have devastated the religion already. I doubt this would make much of a difference.

[Joshpantera]

9 hours ago, florduh said:

Geology, biology, astrophysics, simple observation, common sense and reality itself, not to mention actually reading the Bible, should have devastated the religion already. I doubt this would make much of a difference.

 

I'm sure apologist's would start splitting as to who thinks it's the devil and who thinks it's bible sanctioned. In both cases certain that it proves the bible. 

[Extant]

Evidence.

What does this evidence suggest?

 

Here is a little math regarding just the great pyramid of giza. It is constructed of 2,200,000 blocks of stone weight on average 2.5 tons each, has granite on the inside and was clad with a layer white limestone. Establishment scientists claim it took 20 years to build yet they cannot say how it was built. You would need to know how it was built to know how long it took to build.

 

So 20 years.

86,400 seconds in a day
31,536,000 seconds in year of 365 days
630,720,000 seconds in 20 years of 365 days each

630,720,000 divided by 2,200,000 equals 286.69 seconds
287 seconds divided by 60 equals 4.77 minutes

 

The Egyptians would have had to quarry, transport, and place one 2.5 ton block of stone every 4.77 minutes, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year for 20 years. How could they do that at night? This doesn't take into account the impossibility of quarrying granite with copper tools, nor the time it would take to quarry, move, and place the white limestone cladding.

 

With no source of artificial light we'll say they could work 12 hours a day. That's one block of stone every 2.39 minutes.

 

Baalbek has quarried stones weighing as much as 1000 metric tons - and they were able to move and place those stones. Establishment scientists completely ignore Baalbek.

Establishment scientists cannot explain how a ball of hydrogen is able to burn in the vacuum of space - where does the sun get its source of oxygen? Fire requires fuel, heat, and oxygen. Take any one of those away and no fire. (the sun as a burning ball of hydrogen is what we were taught it was when I was growing up).

 

Establishment scientists - over rated experts? If they cannot explain stone structures on earth, how can they explain what is out in universe?

[pantheory]

On 4/21/2021 at 5:40 AM, Extant said:

Evidence.

What does this evidence suggest?

 

Here is a little math regarding just the great pyramid of Giza. It is constructed of 2,200,000 blocks of stone weight on average 2.5 tons each, has granite on the inside and was clad with a layer white limestone. Establishment scientists claim it took 20 years to build yet they cannot say how it was built. You would need to know how it was built to know how long it took to build.

 

So 20 years.

86,400 seconds in a day
31,536,000 seconds in year of 365 days
630,720,000 seconds in 20 years of 365 days each

630,720,000 divided by 2,200,000 equals 286.69 seconds
287 seconds divided by 60 equals 4.77 minutes

 

The Egyptians would have had to quarry, transport, and place one 2.5 ton block of stone every 4.77 minutes, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year for 20 years. How could they do that at night? This doesn't take into account the impossibility of quarrying granite with copper tools, nor the time it would take to quarry, move, and place the white limestone cladding.

 

With no source of artificial light we'll say they could work 12 hours a day. That's one block of stone every 2.39 minutes................

--------------------------------------------------------------

Establishment scientists cannot explain how a ball of hydrogen is able to burn in the vacuum of space - where does the sun get its source of oxygen? Fire requires fuel, heat, and oxygen. Take any one of those away and no fire. (the sun as a burning ball of hydrogen is what we were taught it was when I was growing up).

 

Establishment scientists - over rated experts? If they cannot explain stone structures on earth, how can they explain what is out in universe?

 

 

Based upon writings at an archeological sight in Egypt, It shows pictures of them building a pyramid with related writings, although I don't think it was the great pyramid at Giza. Anyway, they were building it from two opposite sides at once. They built a perpendicular water way coming from the Nile to the sight. They brought in the blocks by boat near to the sight. The foundation was dug out and the blocks lowered down.

 

Once the first above-ground layer was complete, they built roughly a 5 degree sand ramps for each layer thereafter. Approximately 50 men in rows dragged each block with ropes up the ramps. They used water and animal fat in front of the blocks to reduce the friction. After finally putting the top blocks in, they started putting on the limestone finish coat from the top down. As they worked their way down with the finish coat they removed the ramps layer by layer.

 

https://daily.jstor.org/scientists-have-an-answer-to-how-the-egyptian-pyramids-were-built/

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Although stars are certainly hot, they are not burning in a chemical way which requires oxygen, as you stated. Instead they burn by nuclear fusion like a hydrogen bomb. Larger stars burn/ fuse a lot faster than smaller ones. The largest white stars are the youngest and hottest, but the smaller red stars can live maybe 10 times longer than the largest ones because of their slow fusion rate, and live many dozens of billions of years. The sun is a middle size star.

 

http://butane.chem.uiuc.edu/pshapley/GenChem1/L1/3.html

[Extant]

Thanks Pantheory,

 

Back in school I wasn't all that interested in science. I could have mistaken what I thought was taught and what was taught regarding the sun. I've seen those articles about the pyramids, and they leave out the shear magnitude of the project. The number of blocks, etc. The hieroglyph depicting a bunch of dudes dragging a single statue is not the construction of one of the great pyramids. One thing is does show though, is Egypt was a slave state. There are other indications it was as well.

 

As for Baalbek - the temple there now was built on top of a platform that is much older. Some of those huge stones can be found in Jerusalem too. I don't think a bunch of guys could drag one from Baalbek (Ba'al) to Jerusalem. I'm certain we are not told the truth about earth's distant past, it is that or nobody knows it.

 

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. What happened to the people that could explain Baalbek, Egypt, Jerusalm, etc? That kind of know-how doesn't just disappear for no reason.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

53 minutes ago, Extant said:

Thanks Pantheory,

 

Back in school I wasn't all that interested in science. I could have mistaken what I thought was taught and what was taught regarding the sun. I've seen those articles about the pyramids, and they leave out the shear magnitude of the project. The number of blocks, etc. The hieroglyph depicting a bunch of dudes dragging a single statue is not the construction of one of the great pyramids. One thing is does show though, is Egypt was a slave state. There are other indications it was as well.

 

As for Baalbek - the temple there now was built on top of a platform that is much older. Some of those huge stones can be found in Jerusalem too. I don't think a bunch of guys could drag one from Baalbek (Ba'al) to Jerusalem. I'm certain we are not told the truth about earth's distant past, it is that or nobody knows it.

 

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. What happened to the people that could explain Baalbek, Egypt, Jerusalm, etc? That kind of know-how doesn't just disappear for no reason.

 

From articles I've read the land of canaan was governed by Egypt. I'm which spurred the Exodus Myth as an antiEgyptian propaganda. The early canaanites obviously didn't like being governed by them. 

 

If this is true it would make sense that those stones could be found in isreal. Maybe they even had Isrealite slaves working in quarries to cut the stones. Who knows? Maybe behind the legend there is a little truth that spurred the fictional account. 

[Extant]

7 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

From articles I've read the land of canaan was governed by Egypt. I'm which spurred the Exodus Myth as an antiEgyptian propaganda. The early canaanites obviously didn't like being governed by them. 

 

From the Nile to the Euphrates, I think is the term. Nobody like being governed by 'them' now.

[pantheory]

9 hours ago, Extant said:

Thanks Pantheory,

 

Back in school I wasn't all that interested in science. I could have mistaken what I thought was taught and what was taught regarding the sun. I've seen those articles about the pyramids, and they leave out the shear magnitude of the project. The number of blocks, etc. The hieroglyph depicting a bunch of dudes dragging a single statue is not the construction of one of the great pyramids. One thing is does show though, is Egypt was a slave state. There are other indications it was as well.

 

As for Baalbek - the temple there now was built on top of a platform that is much older. Some of those huge stones can be found in Jerusalem too. I don't think a bunch of guys could drag one from Baalbek (Ba'al) to Jerusalem. I'm certain we are not told the truth about earth's distant past, it is that or nobody knows it.

 

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. What happened to the people that could explain Baalbek, Egypt, Jerusalm, etc? That kind of know-how doesn't just disappear for no reason.

 

Although there were slaves in Egypt, it was nothing like the Bible story, and very few of the slaves were Jews. According to my readings, Egypt had a military draft system like most countries to the modern day, where young men were drafted into the army for 5 years and had to also work on building civil projects like the pyramids for half of the year. Once there time was up, they were no longer obliged to work on such projects. As a worker on such projects, he,  his wife and children, if he had any, were also supported by the state.

 

Yeah, for their time, their technologies were pretty fantastic, but they probably could have done a lot more with the wheel and work animals.

[Joshpantera]

5 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

Although there were slaves in Egypt, it was nothing like the Bible story, and very few of the slaves were Jews. According to my readings, Egypt had a military draft system like most countries to the modern day, where young men were drafted into the army for 5 years and had to also work on building civil projects like the pyramids for half of the year. Once there time was up, they were no longer obliged to work on such projects. As a worker on such projects, he,  his wife and children, if he had any, were also supported by the state.

 

Yeah, for their time, their technologies were pretty fantastic, but they probably could have done a lot more with the wheel and work animals.

 

The issue is deeper than that. It appears that older structure were there already and what the Egyptians did, with slaves or otherwise, was building around the pre-existing temples and structures that were already there. The older dating back to more of a rain forest climate. The Sphinx having rain erosion discovered. And I've seen where Temple complexes are built on top of previous structures. 

 

But back the point of the thread, here we are facing a situation where the government is disclosing information on unidentified flying objects. Some of which are video recorded with pyramid looking shape. And also we have this age old mystery of pyramids all around the world. And cultures claiming that wise teachers or ancestors came down from the stars. 

 

What would be interesting is if public awareness of alien contact were disclosed. If alien contact played a roll in ancient civilization and the founding of civilizing skills, it could be settled with contact Q&A. I don't know why now the government is disclosing information. The corona virus bill apparently had something written in to it about disclosure. Maybe there's going to be more and more ufo visitation and they're prepping society for the next phase. If there are galactic civilizations and / or federations (as I read in one of the links) then the globalizing and then galactic-izing of the earth looks like a logical evolution. 

 

If planets transition between stages of civilization which eventually lead to joining in with advanced space traveling civilizations, then at some point the secret would have to end. Once the civilization starts to gain enough maturity to join in with the others and start up cross travel between planets. 

 

That was the basis of a sci-fi plot that I tried writing, anyways.

 

We mature to the point of open contact, then the aliens reveal to us all of the mysteries of our past. The ending had the hero character of the tale on a space transport headed to a young planet with early stage life, as a guest of the advanced aliens who disclosed the truth of our past. The hero character had been invited to go as part of an expedition crew going to nudge along and help initiate civilizing skills among hunter gatherer type primitive life forms on the young planet. So that they could illustrate first hand how it's always been done and how it's still being done. And will be done going forward. 

 

Completing the circle and illustrating the theory of what some people think happened in our ancient past here. And naturalizing it as part of how the universe and the greater scope of life within the universe could potentially function. 

[Extant]

2 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

What would be interesting is if public awareness of alien contact were disclosed. If alien contact played a roll in ancient civilization and the founding of civilizing skills, it could be settled with contact Q&A. I don't know why now the government is disclosing information. The corona virus bill apparently had something written in to it about disclosure. Maybe there's going to be more and more ufo visitation and they're prepping society for the next phase. If there are galactic civilizations and / or federations (as I read in one of the links) then the globalizing and then galactic-izing of the earth looks like a logical evolution

 

I mentioned I was blogging and if you're interested, PM me and I'll give the URL. I don't want to spam this forum with my website - and a peer review is something I'd be interested in. Let me know. Anybody, not just Joshpantera. It's a work in progress and has holes but it keeps me busy. It isn't nice meaning politically correct (censorship). Let me know.

[pantheory]

5 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

The issue is deeper than that. It appears that older structure were there already and what the Egyptians did, with slaves or otherwise, was building around the pre-existing temples and structures that were already there. The older dating back to more of a rain forest climate. The Sphinx having rain erosion discovered. And I've seen where Temple complexes are built on top of previous structures. 

 

But back the point of the thread, here we are facing a situation where the government is disclosing information on unidentified flying objects. Some of which are video recorded with pyramid looking shape. And also we have this age old mystery of pyramids all around the world. And cultures claiming that wise teachers or ancestors came down from the stars. 

 

What would be interesting is if public awareness of alien contact were disclosed. If alien contact played a roll in ancient civilization and the founding of civilizing skills, it could be settled with contact Q&A. I don't know why now the government is disclosing information. The corona virus bill apparently had something written in to it about disclosure. Maybe there's going to be more and more ufo visitation and they're prepping society for the next phase. If there are galactic civilizations and / or federations (as I read in one of the links) then the globalizing and then galactic-izing of the earth looks like a logical evolution. 

 

If planets transition between stages of civilization which eventually lead to joining in with advanced space traveling civilizations, then at some point the secret would have to end. Once the civilization starts to gain enough maturity to join in with the others and start up cross travel between planets. 

 

That was the basis of a sci-fi plot that I tried writing, anyways.

 

We mature to the point of open contact, then the aliens reveal to us all of the mysteries of our past. The ending had the hero character of the tale on a space transport headed to a young planet with early stage life, as a guest of the advanced aliens who disclosed the truth of our past. The hero character had been invited to go as part of an expedition crew going to nudge along and help initiate civilizing skills among hunter gatherer type primitive life forms on the young planet. So that they could illustrate first hand how it's always been done and how it's still being done. And will be done going forward. 

 

Completing the circle and illustrating the theory of what some people think happened in our ancient past here. And naturalizing it as part of how the universe and the greater scope of life within the universe could potentially function. 

Yes, Archeologists believe they know that the sphinx is much older than the pyramids.

 

Back to the Aliens According to the related report, the government will be releasing more UFO information in mid-June.  It sounds like info more important than previous UFO sightings. I don't expect it will be spacecraft or dead aliens. Proof like that would rock the world in every continent.

We'll see -- but I would love it if they had indisputable proof of some kind

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

8 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

The issue is deeper than that. It appears that older structure were there already and what the Egyptians did, with slaves or otherwise, was building around the pre-existing temples and structures that were already there. The older dating back to more of a rain forest climate. The Sphinx having rain erosion discovered. And I've seen where Temple complexes are built on top of previous structures. 

 

But back the point of the thread, here we are facing a situation where the government is disclosing information on unidentified flying objects. Some of which are video recorded with pyramid looking shape. And also we have this age old mystery of pyramids all around the world. And cultures claiming that wise teachers or ancestors came down from the stars. 

 

What would be interesting is if public awareness of alien contact were disclosed. If alien contact played a roll in ancient civilization and the founding of civilizing skills, it could be settled with contact Q&A. I don't know why now the government is disclosing information. The corona virus bill apparently had something written in to it about disclosure. Maybe there's going to be more and more ufo visitation and they're prepping society for the next phase. If there are galactic civilizations and / or federations (as I read in one of the links) then the globalizing and then galactic-izing of the earth looks like a logical evolution. 

 

If planets transition between stages of civilization which eventually lead to joining in with advanced space traveling civilizations, then at some point the secret would have to end. Once the civilization starts to gain enough maturity to join in with the others and start up cross travel between planets. 

 

That was the basis of a sci-fi plot that I tried writing, anyways.

 

We mature to the point of open contact, then the aliens reveal to us all of the mysteries of our past. The ending had the hero character of the tale on a space transport headed to a young planet with early stage life, as a guest of the advanced aliens who disclosed the truth of our past. The hero character had been invited to go as part of an expedition crew going to nudge along and help initiate civilizing skills among hunter gatherer type primitive life forms on the young planet. So that they could illustrate first hand how it's always been done and how it's still being done. And will be done going forward. 

 

Completing the circle and illustrating the theory of what some people think happened in our ancient past here. And naturalizing it as part of how the universe and the greater scope of life within the universe could potentially function. 

 

This all sounds like the plot of star trek. Seriously. The vulcans wouldn't make first contact until a civilization advanced enough to achieved warp technology.

 

I mean if it were to happen that would be awesome. 

[Joshpantera]

5 hours ago, pantheory said:

Yes, Archeologists believe they know that the sphinx is much older than the pyramids.

 

Back to the Aliens According to the related report, the government will be releasing more UFO information in mid-June.  It sounds like info more important than previous UFO sightings. I don't expect it will be spacecraft or dead aliens. Proof like that would rock the world in every continent.

We'll see -- but I would love it if they had indisputable proof of some kind

 

You and me both. I'd like to see this mystery finally solved. And some more clarity given. 

 

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

This all sounds like the plot of star trek. Seriously. The vulcans wouldn't make first contact until a civilization advanced enough to achieved warp technology.

 

I mean if it were to happen that would be awesome. 

 

I love star wars but never really got into star trek much. So I don't know how they envisioned it. But it makes sense. It looks like the writers were applying similar logic to where I went with it. All I did was put together pretty much everything on the table in terms of speculation about alien contact in the past and then shot down the middle to a logical conclusion. Then projected it forward in time to another logical conclusion. 

 

Doesn't it seem more probable than not that if we have had ufo's looking in since way back, that we're probably not considered advanced enough to join a galactic or universal group of intelligent space traveling beings? Our technology is somewhat immature against the scope of what we envision technology could be. 

 

The other thought is that while too immature, we could be a danger to ourselves and life at large in the universe until a certain mark of maturity as a global civilization is reached. If we had access to technology beyond our level of maturity we could use in immature ways, I would imagine. 

 

[Extant]

 

9 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

The issue is deeper than that. It appears that older structure were there already and what the Egyptians did, with slaves or otherwise, was building around the pre-existing temples and structures that were already there. The older dating back to more of a rain forest climate. The Sphinx having rain erosion discovered. And I've seen where Temple complexes are built on top of previous structures.

 

He's right about that. Happened in Baalbek and the Americas too.

 

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

 

This all sounds like the plot of star trek. Seriously. The vulcans wouldn't make first contact until a civilization advanced enough to achieved warp technology.

 

I mean if it were to happen that would be awesome. 

 

Well, that would be great except some of the oldest building project just stopped. It is like they were building all this and then something came and destroyed them. Many were left unfinished. In Baalbek there sits a stone about 1000 metric tons. It was quarried and moved only a little. You don't go to that effort and just leave it. Same story all over the world. Very strange.

[Extant]

7 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

The other thought is that while too immature, we could be a danger to ourselves and life at large in the universe until a certain mark of maturity as a global civilization is reached. If we had access to technology beyond our level of maturity we could use in immature ways, I would imagine. 

 

Could be just the opposite. Reach a certain point in technological advancement, the most advanced of which is in the hands of immature and greedy men and their military, and then...

 

What would you do if you saw a kid sitting next to a gas can and playing with matches?

[pantheory]

1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

You and me both. I'd like to see this mystery finally solved. And some more clarity given. 

 

 

I love star wars but never really got into star trek much. So I don't know how they envisioned it. But it makes sense. It looks like the writers were applying similar logic to where I went with it. All I did was put together pretty much everything on the table in terms of speculation about alien contact in the past and then shot down the middle to a logical conclusion. Then projected it forward in time to another logical conclusion. 

 

Doesn't it seem more probable than not that if we have had ufo's looking in since way back, that we're probably not considered advanced enough to join a galactic or universal group of intelligent space traveling beings? Our technology is somewhat immature against the scope of what we envision technology could be. 

 

The other thought is that while too immature, we could be a danger to ourselves and life at large in the universe until a certain mark of maturity as a global civilization is reached. If we had access to technology beyond our level of maturity we could use in immature ways, I would imagine. 

 

 

I'm of the opinion that we are pretty advanced, and that any aliens that know about us and have the ability, would check us out. Maybe robotically and/or in secret if possible, but still try to get a better look concerning our nature and technology.

[florduh]

7 minutes ago, pantheory said:

I'm of the opinion that we are pretty advanced...

Compared to what? 

[Joshpantera]

2 hours ago, pantheory said:

I'm of the opinion that we are pretty advanced

 

2 hours ago, florduh said:

Compared to what? 

 

This is what I had in mind by suggesting we are still immature as a civilization: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

 

The scale has three designated categories.

• A Type I civilization, also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy available on its planet.
• A Type II civilization, also called a stellar civilization—can use and control energy at the scale of its planetary system.
• A Type III civilization, also called a galactic civilization—can control energy at the scale of its entire host galaxy.

There are also 2 extended categories.

• A Type IV civilization, also called a universal civilization, can control energy at the scale of its entire host universe.^[2]
• A Type Ω or Type V civilization, also called a multi-universal civilization, can control energy at the scale of multiple universes, and may be able to create universes.^[2]

[Joshpantera]

2 hours ago, pantheory said:

any aliens that know about us and have the ability, would check us out. Maybe robotically and/or in secret if possible, but still try to get a better look concerning our nature and technology.

 

This would probably be true, even though we don't even rank as a full type 1 civilization yet. We're on the road to going that way probably. Which should be worth notice for monitoring and observing purposes. 

 

But considering the scale out to level 5, we're extremely immature and way less advanced of what can be conceived of. Not even in the ball park against any 2-5 type civilizations. 

[TheDeconvertedMan]

I think there's a spiritual aspect involved here (not religious). No amount of technology can mask the fact that as a species we still have a high amount of murdering, stealing, warmongering, racism, a willingness to destroy our own planet, and an addiction to consenting to a few ruling over the masses.

 

An ET race that is far more advanced than us is likely advanced beyond these things as well.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking down on us and decided, "Eh... fuck 'em."

[Extant]

20 minutes ago, TheDeconvertedMan said:

I think there's a spiritual aspect involved here (not religious). No amount of technology can mask the fact that as a species we still have a high amount of murdering, stealing, warmongering, racism, a willingness to destroy our own planet, and an addiction to consenting to a few ruling over the masses.

 

An ET race that is far more advanced than us is likely advanced beyond these things as well.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking down on us and decided, "Eh... fuck 'em."

 

Our perception of the world outside what we directly experience is from what - news, TV, movies, what's taught in school? What friends and family tells us from their experience? 

 

I drove with a friend from Florida to New Mexico. He had a difficult time believing most of America was small towns, farms, and the like. We were talking about over population and even after seeing, he had trouble believing this country is no where near over populated. Neither is the world for that matter.

 

The media puts a negative slant on people as individuals and portrays 'us as a species' in a bad way. I can't help but think that is done on purpose. Governments and religions war, people don't war. So many people found out if you try to do something about that they go after you, and they're not nice about it. Sure, you can join an establishment endorsed cause and believe you're doing some good, but to go against the establishment as whole, well, they don't respond kindly.

[TheDeconvertedMan]

8 hours ago, Extant said:

We were talking about over population and even after seeing, he had trouble believing this country is no where near over populated.

I tend to agree with you. I've read a few things about how this planet, if it were treated well, could easily host up to around 25 billion people. A few years ago I road tripped through friggin' India, one of the most populated countries in the world. Mumbai to Chennai and it took 2 weeks. I had the same experience as you--people rammed into cities, followed by miles upon miles of completely empty land.

 

8 hours ago, Extant said:

I can't help but think that is done on purpose.

It absolutely it is.

 

8 hours ago, Extant said:

Governments and religions war, people don't war.

True, but that's the thing. We let them. It's almost like the whole world is a scaled up version of that famous psychology experiment where a fake scientist told the test subjects to keep pressing the button to electrocute another person with near-lethal voltage. Most did, just because someone who was perceived to be an authority told them.

 

Or the other famous experiment where they gave one group of test subjects complete authority over another group of subjects in a mock prison environment. That one had to be called off because of how quickly the authority group became to mistreat and degrade the non-authority group.

 

8 hours ago, Extant said:

So many people found out if you try to do something about that they go after you, and they're not nice about it.

I agree, but that almost seems like it's part of the "test" for lack of a better word. It's not supposed to be easy.

 

So the ET race could be looking down with a bird's eye view saying, "A couple thousand of these pricks are causing all the problems, but the other 8 billion are just letting them, and many of them actually support their controllers."