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4 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

A humorous take on bible contradictions and shows some of the problems with this perfect inerrant word of Gawwd.

 

Quiz Show (Bible Contradictions) - YouTube 

 

(Why the heck won't my videos embed anymore? 

 

 

 

 

 

That one is excellent.

Here's "The Gospel of Luke" by the same author-

 

 

 

This is the main youtube page for NonStamp Collector's videos on the Bible:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDyWzuw_u0TBnRaoAcVg0jw

 

 

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For anyone struggling to follow JamesL's logic, I have condensed it all into the diagram below.  I added color for the bits that represent his original thoughts and arguments.    

@alreadyGone, the dude lives in a tent.  He don't need no toilet paper; he just needs to remember "leaves of three, leave it be."

Really? The lack of archeological proof is what started my deconversion. You should probably recheck your facts.   This is not true. Very little evidence has been found like @LogicalFallac

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So @JamesL ,

 

Among the direct questions which you continue to ignore..

 

Do you still maintain that material things are of no value and that we should all abandon our possessions and live in a tent?

 

Does that actually seem rational to you, or is it a pose, a false affectation?

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

So @JamesL ,

 

Among the direct questions which you continue to ignore..

 

Do you still maintain that material things are of no value and that we should all abandon our possessions and live in a tent?

 

Does that actually seem rational to you, or is it a pose, a false affectation?

 

 

 

 

 

JamesL declared that he lives in Florida, but his IP says he lives in California.

 

He started off making false declarations to us, AlreadyGone.

 

Any posing or false affectations on his part are simply adding to the falsehoods.

 

You'll also notice that he cannot actually deal with the specifics of the biblical contradictions he's been asked about.

 

Instead he posts videos that any non-Christian could look up, so as to appear to us to be a Christian.

 

But many of us have our doubts.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

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18 hours ago, JamesL said:

This isn't a contradiction. This is just an omission. Its like when your at a crime scene and there are several witnesses. Obviously theyre not all going to be the same since they will all have different versions of how the crime occurred or else it wouldnt look good. Same thing with the bible. If you read the article properly then you would know that there isnt a contradiction in the bible. Obviously mark knew more details. Another example I can give you is the thief on the cross asking forgiveness by jesus. In the other gospels the thief joins the other thief in spitting jesus and mocking him but in luke he instead asks forgiveness by jesus. This seems to be a contradiction but it isnt as mike winger explains how it isnt because in luke its been 3 hours since they were crucified and the thief was able to think about and regret his actions. There isnt any contradictions if you really read the bible.

 

James, one book says that Jesus said the cock shall not crow before Peter denied him three time. Another book has it at twice. And the following stories are made to follow suite according to Jesus prophecy. It is most definitely a contradiction. You and the author of the article just simply explain it away as having more detail. But it isn't true. If the Bible is truly inspired by an ALL KNOWING and ALL POWERFUL God then surely he can make sure everyone is on the same page. Or well he really isn't all that powerful if he can't even do that. Right? But what am I thinking? he can't even get his church on the same page. There are more denominations in Christianity than probably any other faith on earth. It is literally the most divided religion in the world. And your gonna to tell me your little cult have all the answers and what you believe is what God really wants. 🤣 LMAO yeah sure. Your a grain of sand on the beach of lies, contradictions, and deceit that is Christianity. 

 

All the gospels were written well after Jesus death. Notice I didn't say after his resurrection. Because that didn't happen. If he did exist then he was probably some charismatic preacher like Joseph Smith, or David Koresh. Yes, James, I just compared Jesus to a known cultist. In his time he would have been exactly that. A cultist. 

 

You do realize that early Christians were saying it was the end back then right? They thought the Roman empire and the Ceasars were the fulfillment of the prophecies. Its been 2000 years and he still hasn't come back. I mean. Christianity is literally older than all the books of the old testament were during Jesus's time. What gives? When is God gonna make good on his promises? Why would Jesus tell everyone the end is near. Roughly 1500 years after the oldest books in the old testament. Just to turn around and wait over 2000 years before coming back for "his precious people", Every Christian since then has been saying the end is near, the end is near, blah blah blah. The Roman's! The end is near, the plagues- the end is near, vikings!! - the end is near. the crusades! The end is near. Spanish influenza - the end is near! Hitler and the world wars! The end is near. Napoleon! The end is near.  1999-the end is near! Obama! The end is near . Trump- the end is near. 

 

Come on. Really? When is enough enough? I say now is enough. I hope that what we are seeing in this time is an Era of rationality. The prospect of some ancient God coming to take us away to some unrealistic fairy tale land is ridiculous. It warms my heart to only see 3 cars at the local church on Sundays. 

 

James it isnt just the contradictions. The past 200 years or so people have genuinely tried to use the Bible as a historical guide for science and archeology and have failed. There are cities mentioned in the Bible that they found didn't exist during the time frame of the story. Which lead to the conclusions that major parts of the Bible were written after the fact. Biblical History was fictionalized in reverse for the narrative, by people who didn't know certain cities weren't there at the time. Archeologist tried to retrace the path of 2 million isrealites fleeing Egypt and failed. There is absolutely no evidence of a mass exodus. Even Ron Wyatts fake archeology doesn't reflect an exodus of the massive proportions that the Bible boasts. Not to mention their live stock as well. If it had happened there would be a massive amount of evidence strewn across the desert. But no. Thats not what happened. The books of Moses were found to have been written by 4 different authors over time. Scholars have found many books in the Bible were forgeries or written at later times to affect politics. The very foundations of the Bible are sand. Not stone. Jesus even knew what happens to the house on the sand when the storms come. Well, the storms have come, and the Bible has fallen.

 

My point is that there is to much evidence against the Bible being true. From scholars, to contradictions, failed promises, archeological research, writing analysis, carbon dating, unanswered prayers, failed prophecies, to etc. The list goes on. And on. I can no longer believe in fairy tales James. And I certainly am not stupid enough to become homeless for anything let alone a book of lies with a false, deaf, and Dumb God at the helm.

 

Dark Bishop

 

 

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Checks my watch. The library is closed...just about time for James to post something.

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Look guys i have a confession to make. Do you guys remember MrJukes21? That's me. I made this account because I wanted to be assured that a voice in the desert and habermas were false. I wanted to be assured so bad that what they were saying wasn't true so I decided to make this account in order to see what was wrong in their arguments for god so that i can be reassured that they're wrong. Before I deconverted  I watched a lot of videos by those two and their videos got stuck in my head. When I found this website I noticed that when I went to the lion's den all Christian arguments no matter how strong they were so I decided to test out the arguments made by Habermas, quora, and a voice in the desert since they have the strongest arguments I know for christianity. Look if you want you may kick me out since I did lie. But at this point I needed more reassurance which is why I did this

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Bad MrJukes! 

 

:)

 

Rips off my mask. I'm really Gary Habermas!

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2 hours ago, JamesL said:

Look guys i have a confession to make. Do you guys remember MrJukes21? That's me. I made this account because I wanted to be assured that a voice in the desert and habermas were false. I wanted to be assured so bad that what they were saying wasn't true so I decided to make this account in order to see what was wrong in their arguments for god so that i can be reassured that they're wrong. Before I deconverted  I watched a lot of videos by those two and their videos got stuck in my head. When I found this website I noticed that when I went to the lion's den all Christian arguments no matter how strong they were so I decided to test out the arguments made by Habermas, quora, and a voice in the desert since they have the strongest arguments I know for christianity. Look if you want you may kick me out since I did lie. But at this point I needed more reassurance which is why I did this

 

So, what is your conclusion?

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........ what the hell? ..... ok ... thats kinda fucked up. But like Weezer said. Whats your conclusion? Not that I'm really gonna trust you at this point. But I'd still like to hear it. 

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My conclusion is that Christianity is fake based on how this world works and all the flaws I see with Christianity. But I'm still having a lot of recurring doubts. I'm just trying to look for really good refutations against Christianity and I figured I can do that by using this account and disguising as a Christian. I'm sorry I offended everyone. This was the only way I can think of.

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2 hours ago, JamesL said:

My conclusion is that Christianity is fake based on how this world works and all the flaws I see with Christianity. But I'm still having a lot of recurring doubts. I'm just trying to look for really good refutations against Christianity and I figured I can do that by using this account and disguising as a Christian. I'm sorry I offended everyone. This was the only way I can think of.

 

You should really start studying if your serious. Not the Bible but about the Bible. Bart Ehrmann is probably my favorite scholar right now. I'm reading his book " Heaven and Hell, a history of the after life" it is a really good book so far. It describes how the myth of hell developed over time and eventually becomes the hell we know today. Also his book forgeries and counter forgeries was great too. He starts off giving an exhaustive explanation on the criteria he used for his writing analysis comparing the epistles of the new testament. He finds that only about half of the epistles of Paul were written by one person. (Presumably Paul) he also gives explanations to why the forgeries were made and what was going on in the church at the time they were forged. There are also a lot of good YouTube videos that have been posted of him. He'd kick Gary Habermas' ass in a debate any day. 

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I can also throw a few links at ya if you would like to read about what they found concerning the exodus, and the books of Moses. There was one Jewish apologist that wrote an article trying to refute that there was no exodus by saying it was a smaller scale migration. Which I guess is fine for some people. But to people who had faith in what the Bible said it is a big issue. A small group of people as apposed to millions is a Big contradiction.

 

There are also some good articles out there concerning the true ruling power at the time of the supposed exodus to Isreal. Egypt was in power over the area of isreal at the time. So why would slaves escape Egypt just to go to a country ruled by Egyptians? Well they didn't. The Mosaic myth was antiEgyptian political propaganda.

 

The story of the walls of Jericho falling was one of those stories I told you about that was written in reverse. During the time of the writers,  Jericho existed and was a walled city. But when they made the myth they included the story of Jericho not knowing it didn't exist in the time frame of their narrative.

 

Once you start seeing the truth about the Bible the whole thing starts falling apart. Because if the first 5 books of the Bible were not written by Moses then they are lies. Those first five books are the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They even include the first "prophecies" of christ coming according to Christians. And probably some about Muhammad according to Muslims. I dunno, never really cared to look into Islam. 911 kinda messed me up when it comes to those guys. Let me know if you want some links. I'll shoot em to you in a pm.

 

 I would say "heaven and hell" or "misquoting Jesus" would be two good books to start with for you. "Forgeries and counter forgeries" goes Into so much detail on the criteria I ended up skipping ahead a few chapters to get to the meat of the book. I completely understand why he went into so much detail. He is writing books that get critiqued and analyzed by other scholars around the world. So he has to make sure they know, that HE knows, what he is talking about.  "Forged" may be a better read before "Forgeries and Counter Forgeries" because of that. And its only $2 on kindle right now.

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5 hours ago, JamesL said:

This was the only way I can think of.

Did it never occur to you to ask, as Mrjukes21: "Hey guys, I'm really struggling here; can y'all help me out?"  Because that is exactly what we are here for.  Not only would that have been a simpler solution; it would also not have been a betrayal of the community's trust.  Next time, dude, just ask.

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6 hours ago, JamesL said:

My conclusion is that Christianity is fake based on how this world works and all the flaws I see with Christianity. But I'm still having a lot of recurring doubts. I'm just trying to look for really good refutations against Christianity and I figured I can do that by using this account and disguising as a Christian. I'm sorry I offended everyone. This was the only way I can think of.


You made a mistake by adopting a second persona and coming in hostile toward the people who wanted to help you.  But I think we as a group are willing to let bygones be bygones.  Because we understand the confusion and turmoil experienced by people who are starting to deconvert. We were there once, some just recently.   Not everybody who starts to deconvert is able to get through the process.  Some go back to Christianity, whether happily or unhappily, and some get stuck in a rather miserable in-between state.  Those of us you see here are the ones who made it through the process to become “Fully Deconverted” and now want to give back by helping others get to the same place.  Only time will tell whether you, JamesL/MrJukes21, will have a successful deconversion, but given what I’ve seen over the years, and given the support and knowledge you can gain here in this community, I’d say the odds are pretty good.  
 

Whatever you’re experiencing on any given day, somebody here went through that too.  In my opinion you will be best served by building on the conclusions you’ve already reached and moving forward through the deconversion process with the support and knowledge available to you here.  If you do decide to return to Christianity and leave this place we will wish you well.  This is a VERY supportive community and all we ask is that you be open and honest with us.  

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Well first thing is first. Theres no reason to turn back to christianity. Only thing I would get from that would be that I wasted more time and I would be allowing myself to be lied to again. No more of that crap. I’m trying to do my best to get out of Christianity. Thats why I am here. What do you guys think about the people who were here and became Christian? Don’t you think they made a huge mistake by doing so? I personally think they did. 

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8 hours ago, TABA said:

I'm just trying to look for really good refutations against Christianity...

You don't need to disprove the claims made by proponents of the religion, they need to support them with some facts. Until they have evidence to back their assertions it is no more worthy of consideration than fairies in the garden.

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19 hours ago, JamesL said:

Look guys i have a confession to make. Do you guys remember MrJukes21? That's me. I made this account because I wanted to be assured that a voice in the desert and habermas were false. I wanted to be assured so bad that what they were saying wasn't true so I decided to make this account in order to see what was wrong in their arguments for god so that i can be reassured that they're wrong. Before I deconverted  I watched a lot of videos by those two and their videos got stuck in my head. When I found this website I noticed that when I went to the lion's den all Christian arguments no matter how strong they were so I decided to test out the arguments made by Habermas, quora, and a voice in the desert since they have the strongest arguments I know for christianity. Look if you want you may kick me out since I did lie. But at this point I needed more reassurance which is why I did this

 

This isn't our first rodeo. People often do the very same thing. Sometimes as a joke or gag to mess with friends. Sometimes seriously to play devil's advocate and see what happens to the christian arguments. 

 

Which is why the staff picked up on it early on. 

 

We just want to make sure that you are of sound mind, that you didn't go manic or split personality on us. You can play devil's advocate without the need of false pretenses. If deconversion is your real status and you really want to be part of this ex christian community. 

 

Here's the thing, I'm currently debating with Edgarcito. If for any reason he suddenly got it, had an insight or awaking and realized that he had been wrong about the bible and christianity, I'd extend an open armed acceptance into this community as an ex christian peer just like that. Immediately. No harm no fowl with the previous debates, razzing, or shit talking. 

 

People are literally deluded while under the influence of orthodox, contemporary and popular christian thinking. They don't understand what they're saying. They hardly understand what they're doing most of the time. We know this because we were there. We didn't get it. It didn't click that the bible is errant, inconsistent, ill-logical, and contradictory. And then something changed and it all started clicking. 

 

Once you understand what's wrong with the bible, there's small chance of questioning or wondering if maybe it's right. Day's don't happen without suns. Grass doesn't grow prior to a sun. There is no light in the universe before the existence of any sun or stars. There wouldn't have been any hydrogen for a watery, unformed earth, prior to the existence of first generation stars in the universe. 

 

It's wrong from the outset. What's wrong from the outset doesn't magically become right along the way. 

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1 hour ago, JamesL said:

What do you guys think about the people who were here and became Christian? Don’t you think they made a huge mistake by doing so? I personally think they did. 

I think if a person feels comfortable that a certain religion or form of spirituality works for them then they should strive to practice that religion or form of spirituality to the best of their ability, without interference from me; and extend to me the same courtesy of non-interference.  If, after sincere questioning, you decide to return to christianity, you will still be welcome in this community, just as you would be welcome if you decide Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or the 12 Steps is right for you. 

 

Each to their own; live and let live.

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5 hours ago, JamesL said:

 What do you guys think about the people who were here and became Christian? Don’t you think they made a huge mistake by doing so? I personally think they did. 

 

How many people do you know (for sure) who were here and became christian?  And if they did, I don't see it as a mistake.  It just happened. 

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7 hours ago, JamesL said:

What do you guys think about the people who were here and became Christian? Don’t you think they made a huge mistake by doing so? I personally think they did. 

 

Christianity works for some people. Some people seem to need to be part of the herd, to fit in with that group and follow the holy book of instruction. If it makes them happy, that's fine. 

 

Maybe some religious person will try to legislate their religion into law, but I'll vote against it. :) 

 

What does bother me is fanatical Christian parents causing misery for their children. Not much I can do about that. But knowledge is out there and easily obtained so the following generations will be less fooled by religion. 

 

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3 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

How many people do you know (for sure) who were here and became christian?  And if they did, I don't see it as a mistake.  It just happened. 

 

Didn't Bro Jeff go back? Seems I remember 1 or 2 others as well that came and went when I first came to the site. 

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15 hours ago, JamesL said:

What do you guys think about the people who were here and became Christian? Don’t you think they made a huge mistake by doing so? I personally think they did. 


I’m familiar with a couple of Ex-Christians from here who went back to Christianity.  One, BrotherJeff, had some psychological issues that made him go back and forth between strong Christian faith and a very vocal atheistic position.  Last I heard he had become Christian again.  I have no idea if this was a mistake or not.  It was what worked for him at the time.  
 

Another atheist member, Deidre, went back to Christianity because it made her happy, I think.  Her fiancé, later husband, seems to have been a factor. It’s not what I would do but I understand and respect her choice.  She remained friendly and gracious toward us godless types after her reconversion.

 

So I guess my answer is “It Depends”.  Personally, I am convinced that Christianity is based upon myths and that the god of the Bible doesn’t exist.  Therefore I have no reason to be a Christian or a theist.  I am glad that I started the process of questioning that led me to agnostic atheism because this conclusion fits well with the way the world works.  I am happy to be free of religious dogma and no longer have to figure out what this or that scripture means, or what God’s will for me is.  I can’t imagine wading back into the swamp of theology and religious dogma.  Going back to Christianity would just be nonsensical.    But that’s me.  If somebody finds meaning and happiness in believing in the god of the Bible, I don’t necessarily approve, but it’s their life, not mine. 
 

 

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I don't think behaviors taken due to a mental illness (e.g. manic episode, clinical depression) qualify as a legitimate conversion or deconversion. It is a temporary manifestation of a current mental state rather than a reasoned or even an emotional decision.

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