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Just out of curiosity James, do you hold the bible to be inerrant and without contradiction?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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For anyone struggling to follow JamesL's logic, I have condensed it all into the diagram below.  I added color for the bits that represent his original thoughts and arguments.    

@alreadyGone, the dude lives in a tent.  He don't need no toilet paper; he just needs to remember "leaves of three, leave it be."

Really? The lack of archeological proof is what started my deconversion. You should probably recheck your facts.   This is not true. Very little evidence has been found like @LogicalFallac

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1 hour ago, Weezer said:

 

James and V A S T know that if they say god has always existed, they will have contradicted the ages old statement that stumped me many years ago and helped to lead me to agnosticism.

lol. it's lowercase. :)

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12 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

He needs a better imaginary friend.  (Springy G opens a box of fresh-from-the-bakery raspberry jambusters and offers one to Her guardian dragon Glori)

🐉 there are squirrels where i live.  amazing animals.  sometimes their tails look thin, at other times fluffy.  they hang out on the grass like cows and stand up like prairie dogs. 🐿️ 

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@v__a__s__t Are you a Christian? Other religion? Agnostic?

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@JamesLDo you think the exodus happened as in the Bible with 2 million people plus livestock etc?

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2 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

So, I'll just wait for God to say something. But he'll have to say it in English or some language I understand otherwise I will neither know nor be responsible for failing to follow his rules. 

 

 

lol. He/She might speak English too, but imperfectly in varying degrees because people who speak English, generally speaking, aren't very perfect as far as i can tell.

 

but God might be if She/He exists.  so if It/He is perfect, She/It would come through sounding not as It/It is, but in parts and broken down into to smaller and smaller knowledge bytes through the very imperfect human English used by imperfect humans with imperfect knowledge and information.   

 

English, which is only one of many languages of humans, not of other things which might be speaking too - in their own languages. 

 

i hope the above helps, however imperfectly.  i tried.   🇬🇧 🔇💬 :)

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    Sets and sets and sets upon sets and sets of assertions.

     I' m out. The poster doesn't want or know the difference between an argument and an assertion and mixes and confuses them although many posters have tried to explain it.

     Discussion, no mind actual debate is impossible in these terms.

      I recommend James to take a course in formal and informal logic, fallacies and epistemology with a focus in epistemology of science. I recommend this to everyone for that matter :) including myself

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31 minutes ago, v__a__s__t said:

lol. He/She might speak English too, but imperfectly in varying degrees because people who speak English, generally speaking, aren't very perfect as far as i can tell.

 

but God might be if She/He exists.  so if It/He is perfect, She/It would come through sounding not as It/It is, but in parts and broken down into to smaller and smaller knowledge bytes through the very imperfect human English used by imperfect humans with imperfect knowledge and information.   

 

English, which is only one of many languages of humans, not of other things which might be speaking too - in their own languages. 

 

i hope the above helps, however imperfectly.  i tried.   🇬🇧 🔇💬 :)

 

Probably a waste of time worshiping a being that cant speak my dialect of Engrish. :)

 

 

 

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@JamesL Presented a Quora sourced argument that dealt with the concepts of necessary and contingent. I'm not convinced he can explain the difference so here is a short 5 part series to give the briefest of explanations. James once you've watched these (They are only 90 seconds each - total of only 7 mins 30 sec) can you then explain to us why you think God is a necessary being? Thanks.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5caXLeKE5QI Pt 1 Philosophical Distinctions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt4h7uvvcXc Pt 2 Nessesary and Contingent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYgxkMU1JZA Pt 3 A Priori and A Posteriori

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX-nNQ2Opsc Pt 4 Analytic and Synthetic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvpAGv3TAWw Pt 5 Philosophical Distinctions Summary.

 

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5 hours ago, v__a__s__t said:

🐉 there are squirrels where i live.  amazing animals.  sometimes their tails look thin, at other times fluffy.  they hang out on the grass like cows and stand up like prairie dogs. 🐿️ 

 

Squirrels are fun to watch.  I've seen them chase one another in spirals up and down trees, and run straight up stucco walls to the roof.  Don't let them move into your attic, though - they like chewing on things, and they make a real mess.  Before my roof got redone a couple of years ago we live-trapped and released nine or ten of the larger grey-brown squirrels, and there's still a bratty little red squirrel that has a secret entrance somewhere under the eaves.

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8 hours ago, WalterP said:

Just out of curiosity James, do you hold the bible to be inerrant and without contradiction?

Of course I do since its god word. What kind of question is that? 

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6 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Do you think the exodus happened as in the Bible with 2 million people plus livestock etc?

Well obviously it happened with the chariot wheels under the red sea. I sent an image of it on this forum

Plus with all the archeology that proves the exodus theres no way it didnt happen. Mount Sinai's discovery proves this

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Well look guys with all the bible prophecies coming true and the mark of the beast coming in as rfid chips and covid id passports there's no way christianity ain't true. god is being proven everyday as time goes by. Look if you guys would just listen to the bible prophecies I've mentioned , looked at the archeological evidence of noah's ark and the nephilim, and then the ressurection; then you would know christianity is true

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17 minutes ago, JamesL said:

Well look guys with all the bible prophecies coming true and the mark of the beast coming in as rfid chips and covid id passports there's no way christianity ain't true. god is being proven everyday as time goes by. Look if you guys would just listen to the bible prophecies I've mentioned , looked at the archeological evidence of noah's ark and the nephilim, and then the ressurection; then you would know christianity is true

 

I can't tell if he's serious, seriously deluded, or a troll. 

 

Regardless, I'm out of this one unless @v__a__s__t has something interesting to say.

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36 minutes ago, JamesL said:

Well obviously it happened with the chariot wheels under the red sea. I sent an image of it on this forum

...

Poster JamesL has been bamboozled by Ron Wyatt and his fake underwater pictures, years after Wyatt's death.  How quaint.

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59 minutes ago, JamesL said:

 

Well obviously it happened with the chariot wheels under the red sea. I sent an image of it on this forum

 

Those "chariots" looked more like the wagons my grandfather used on his farm in the 1940s.  And the logistics of 2 million people with all their possessions moving that distance, in the manner described in the bible is impossible.  And there is no evidence of them living in the desert 40 years with 1 million of them dying.  And, you did not answer my question about who created god.

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1 hour ago, JamesL said:

Well obviously it happened with the chariot wheels under the red sea. I sent an image of it on this forum

Plus with all the archeology that proves the exodus theres no way it didnt happen. Mount Sinai's discovery proves this

 

Ron Wyatt isn't a credible source. 

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2 hours ago, JamesL said:

Well look guys with all the bible prophecies coming true and the mark of the beast coming in as rfid chips and covid id passports there's no way christianity ain't true. god is being proven everyday as time goes by. Look if you guys would just listen to the bible prophecies I've mentioned , looked at the archeological evidence of noah's ark and the nephilim, and then the ressurection; then you would know christianity is true

 

You believe stupid things for stupid reasons.  No effin' way I want to end up like -you-!

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Why don't you guys believe in Ron Wyatt he is telling the truth? There's a reason they wanted him silenced. Also to answer Weezer question there is no creator of god as god is the uncaused cause otherwise god wouldn't be god. Doesn't take a genius to know that

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23 minutes ago, JamesL said:

Why don't you guys believe in Ron Wyatt he is telling the truth? There's a reason they wanted him silenced. Also to answer Weezer question there is no creator of god as god is the uncaused cause otherwise god wouldn't be god. Doesn't take a genius to know that

 

Wyatt was not a trained archaeologist.  He saw some structures that looked like wheels, and immediately concocted a wild-ass tale connecting it to the Bible.  No real archaeologist takes him seriously.

 

Everything that we see in the universe today can be attributed to insentient natural causes.  Your god is simply unnecessary to explain any of it.

 

You are wasting your life on a fiction, James.  Wake the fuck up.

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we are Human, i guess. not sure an Angel, not God.  the Religion of Human started untold years ago and has a near endless supply of new converts for some time now.  United we Stand and we might last forever.......

 

Midnight seems open to other Religions but he might be in the minority.  we can only hope or pray that the future brings brighter minds like his, not so tainted by the sheer darkness of conformity. 🎓

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11 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

@v__a__s__t Are you a Christian? Other religion? Agnostic?

 

5 minutes ago, v__a__s__t said:

we are Human, i guess. not sure an Angel, not God.  the Religion of Human started untold years ago and has a near endless supply of new converts for some time now.  United we Stand and we might last forever.......

 

Midnight seems open to other Religions but he might be in the minority.  we can only hope or pray that the future brings brighter minds like his, not so tainted by the sheer darkness of conformity. 🎓

 

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4 hours ago, JamesL said:

Why don't you guys believe in Ron Wyatt he is telling the truth? There's a reason they wanted him silenced. Also to answer Weezer question there is no creator of god as god is the uncaused cause otherwise god wouldn't be god. Doesn't take a genius to know that

 

I take my previous comment back, you're a special kind of stupid. 

 

6 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

Poster JamesL has been bamboozled by Ron Wyatt and his fake underwater pictures, years after Wyatt's death.  How quaint.

 

This seems far too ridiculous to be anything other than a troll. But granted, JamesL may actually be this far gone.

 

I remember Ron Wyatt giving a presentation at my SDA academy. And then reflecting on how extreme his pathological lying went. It was really bad. In fact, Ron Wyatt largely contributed to my ex christian stance. But then again I'm willing to think, use my own mind, investigate, reason with logic, and basically everything that JamesL has proven incapable of doing so far in this thread. Obviously we would have to polar opposite take away's after exposure to Ron Wyatt. 

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10 hours ago, JamesL said:

Of course I do since its god word. What kind of question is that? 

 18 hours ago, WalterP said:

Just out of curiosity James, do you hold the bible to be inerrant and without contradiction?

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ok James,

 

If the bible is god's word and inerrant and without contradiction, then why does Paul contradict himself in the book of Hebrews?  

 

Chapter 9 : 27 & 28

 

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

Since the time of Adam and Eve's fall from grace god's curse of death has been upon everyone.  And that curse will not be lifted until the New Jerusalem comes.  (See Revelation 22 : 3)  So, what Paul says is true.  Everyone is destined to die.

 

But look at what he writes just two chapters later.

 

Chapter 11 : 5

 

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

 

Paul is referring to Genesis 5 : 24.

 

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 

19 After he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 

20 Altogether, Jared lived a total of 962 years, and then he died.

21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 

22 After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 

23 Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 

24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 

26 After he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 

27 Altogether, Methuselah lived a total of 969 years, and then he died.

 

James, please read the whole of list of the lineage of Adam and see that all of them lived and then died.  Except for Enoch.  He did not die.  If he had died, like Jared and Methuselah and the others, then scripture would say so.  But it doesn't.  

 

Paul is also contradicting what is written in 2 Kings 2 : 11 & 12, when Elijah was taken up ALIVE to heaven.

 

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 

12 Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.

 

Paul contradicts himself.  Also, by writing that everyone is destined by god to die, he contradicts Genesis 5 : 24 and 2 Kings 2 : 11 and he also contradicts god, who cursed everyone with death in Genesis 3 : 19.

 

19 

By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”

 

Enoch did not die and return to the ground to become dust.  Nor did Elijah.

 

The bible contradicts itself, James.

 

Therefore it cannot be the perfect and inerrant word of god.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, JamesL said:

Why don't you guys believe in Ron Wyatt he is telling the truth? There's a reason they wanted him silenced. Also to answer Weezer question there is no creator of god as god is the uncaused cause otherwise god wouldn't be god. Doesn't take a genius to know that

 

James,

 

Before you can assert anything about god being the creator you first have to demonstrate that there was a creation.

 

Science can't help you there because there's no firm evidence on this matter.

 

Some evidence and plenty of hypotheses, but nothing conclusive.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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