The Law in the Garden

[Edgarcito]

1 minute ago, WalterP said:

 

Any devious adult will do.

 

Please answer the question, Edgarcito.

 

If a devious adult tricked your children, while they were young and vulnerable, into breaking a law, you'd WANT them prosecuted to the full extent of the law because they brought this suffering upon themselves?

 

Yes or No?

 

 

Not playing the game Walter....I'm asking whether you to assign evil intent to the God side of the dichotomy, NOT the serpent side.  You have not done that.

 

Secondly I DID answer your question:

The answer would be yes.  I'm certain the entity Satan get's the full extent in the end.

 

[Edgarcito]

Mens Urea with respect to God Walter....  (trying you keep your dad joke alive here Prof.)

[WalterP]

3 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Not playing the game Walter....I'm asking whether you to assign evil intent to the God side of the dichotomy, NOT the serpent side.  You have not done that.

 

Secondly I DID answer your question:

The answer would be yes.  I'm certain the entity Satan get's the full extent in the end.

 

 

But the god side of the equation has nothing to do with my question, Edgarcito.

 

Adam and Eve were not deceived by god, they were deceived by the serpent.

 

In my question to you today, god is the lawmaker and not the one deceiving Adam and Eve.

 

I asked you about the deceiver, not the lawmaker.

 

So, in fact, you have NOT answered my question.

 

Please do so, now that you understand who I am referring to.

 

 

If a devious adult tricked your children, while they were young and vulnerable, into breaking a law, you'd WANT them prosecuted to the full extent of the law because they brought this suffering upon themselves?

 

 

Yes or No, Edgarcito?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WalterP]

Oh and in case you're confused about the identity of them, Edgarcito...

 

 

If a devious adult tricked your children, while they were young and vulnerable, into breaking a law, you'd WANT them prosecuted to the full extent of the law because they brought this suffering upon themselves?

 

 

Them means your children.

 

 

Got that?

 

 

 

So, please answer Yes or No.

 

 

 

[Edgarcito]

4 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

But the god side of the equation has nothing to do with my question, Edgarcito.

 

Adam and Eve were not deceived by god, they were deceived by the serpent.

 

In my question god is the lawmaker and not the one deceiving Adam and Eve.

 

I asked you about the deceiver, not the lawmaker.

 

So, in fact, you have NOT answered my question.

 

Please do so, now that you understand who I am referring to.

 

 

If a devious adult tricked your children, while they were young and vulnerable, into breaking a law, you'd WANT them prosecuted to the full extent of the law because they brought this suffering upon themselves?

 

 

Yes or No, Edgarcito?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have squarely answered your question specifically with respect to the deceiver, the serpent.  Quoting for the third time:

 

11 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

The answer would be yes.  I'm certain the entity Satan get's the full extent in the end.

 

 

 

[WalterP]

Just now, Edgarcito said:

I have squarely answered your question specifically with respect to the deceiver, the serpent.  Quoting for the third time:

 

 

 

 

I'm not asking about the serpent Edgarcito.

 

I'm asking you if you would want YOUR CHILDREN punished to the full extent of the law after having been tricked into breaking it by a devious adult.

 

What about your children, Edgarcito?

 

Would you want them punished to the full extent of the law for being tricked into breaking a law?

 

 

Yes or No?

[Edgarcito]

2 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

I'm not asking about the serpent Edgarcito.

 

I'm asking you if you would want YOUR CHILDREN punished to the full extent of the law after having been tricked into breaking it by a devious adult.

 

What about your children, Edgarcito?

 

Would you want them punished to the full extent of the law for being tricked into breaking a law?

 

 

Yes or No?

Thanks for the clarification.  No.

[v__a__s__t]

5 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

+1  Christians can’t upvote vast... so I have to do it manually.  Excellent answer.

 

thanks.   i might've thought of it that way because of PbJ.  if you haven't read his posts, you might want to. 

[WalterP]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Thanks for the clarification.  No.

 

Thank you, Edgarcito.

 

 

 

Then it's ok for god's children, Adam and Eve, to be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

 

 

But it's not ok your own children to be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

 

 

Even though, in both cases, both sets of children were tricked into breaking the law?

 

 

 

Really?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Edgarcito]

32 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

Thank you, Edgarcito.

 

 

 

Then it's ok for god's children, Adam and Eve, to be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

 

 

But it's not ok your own children to be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

 

 

Even though, in both cases, both sets of children were tricked into breaking the law?

 

 

 

Really?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One, as I have requested, you haven't demonstrated that God has tricked anyone.

 

And two, define "full extent of the law", and how God has done this to Adam and Eve.

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

 

3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I am.

 

You bet.

 

 In Whom reside all beings, and Who resides in all beings by virtue of His being the giver of grace to all – I am that Soul of the Universe, the Supreme Being, I am that Soul of the Universe, the Supreme Being. - Amritabindu Upanishad

[WalterP]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

One, as I have requested, you haven't demonstrated that God has tricked anyone.

 

And two, define "full extent of the law", and how God has done this to Adam and Eve.

 

 

 

 

 

You still haven't grasped what scripture says and what I have been saying, Edgarcito.

 

2 Corinthians 11 : 3

 

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

 

It was the serpent who tricked Eve and Adam, not god.

 

In the context of today's dialogue I never said or implied that god tricked them.

 

The serpent tricked them (Adam and Eve) and god punished them (Adam and Eve) to the full extent of the one law that he (god) bound Adam and Eve with.

 

This law.

 

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

 

So god cursed them both with death.

 

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

 

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat food from it
    all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”

 

So god was good to his word, inflicting death upon Adam and Eve, just as he proclaimed in the law he placed upon them.

 

This post answers both of your questions with adequate clarity for you to understand exactly what I mean, Edgarcito.

 

You should now be in no doubt about who did the tricking (the serpent) and who was tricked (Adam and Eve).

 

You should also be in no doubt how god applied the full extent of his law upon Adam and Eve.

 

With these issues settled, we can now move on to my next questions to you.

 

These follow.

 

 

 

 

[WalterP]

Edgarcito,

 

 

 

Then it's ok for god's children, Adam and Eve, to be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

 

 

But it's not ok your own children to be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

 

 

Even though, in both cases, both sets of children were tricked into breaking the law?

 

 

 

Really?

[midniterider]

35 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

One, as I have requested, you haven't demonstrated that God has tricked anyone.

 

And two, define "full extent of the law", and how God has done this to Adam and Eve.

 

 

 

The overall disingenuousness of biblegod in the Adam and Eve story has been brought out time and time again. 

 

I suppose biblegod didnt trick Abraham/Isaac either?

 

Biblegod showed his lovvvvvvvvve to humanity by drowning most of them. 

 

Edgar wants to spend eternity with this entity for some reason.

[WalterP]

FULL DISCLOSURE

 

When I began posting in this thread on March 27 I was of the opinion that god had tricked Adam and Eve in Eden.

 

But my opinion has changed in the light of further thought about events in Eden.

 

On Thursday April 8 I signalled my change of mind by declaring a new understanding of the text of Genesis.

 

Posted Thursday at 10:09 PM

I would like to personally thank Edgarcito for using the word 'Law' in the title of this, his thread.

By doing this he sent me in a new direction of inquiry into the storyline of Eden.

My new understanding is the result of looking at the events in Eden from a legal viewpoint.

As a result of doing this I now see and understand more about the following.

1.  Why the serpent elected to speak to Eve and not Adam.

2.  What the serpent knew about Adam and Eve before speaking to her.

3.  That the serpent was able to trick them into disobeying god without causing them to act in a knowingly evil way.

I'm happy to share this understanding with everyone, here in this thread.

Thank you.

Walter.

 

So, in my exchanges with Edgarcito today I state that Adam and Eve were tricked by the serpent and not by god.

 

To bring my earlier posts into line with my new understanding I have gone back and edited them.

 

I have removed the words 'trick' or 'tricked' when talking about anything to do with god in Eden.

 

Scripture clearly say that the serpent was the trickster and I agree with this.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joshpantera]

On 4/9/2021 at 9:57 PM, Edgarcito said:

Don't be stupid Josh thinking I don't understand the two sides.  The intelligent decision is congruent with science, that because we can't measure it, WE STILL DON'T FUCKING KNOW.  But, that "doesn't click" with you bunch of spiritual misfits that believes a superior knowledge base makes you superior.  Idiot.

 

Do you understand that the only real response to this thread has been, "it's a myth and it's stupid"....which makes any person who considers any qualities of the myth "stupid"?  Very similar response to middle school best I remember.  

 

And then we have Walter...lol.  

 

But by all means Josh, go back to knowledge mining, that it may help you feel better....dumbass.

 

You're a dumbass. We can take this to a formal debate any time you want. On what topic? 

 

Superior Knowledge: does it make one superior? 

 

I'll bite.

 

You seem to understand by your admissions above that I and many others here have superior knowledge over you. And you're correct, we do. And it can be listed as demonstrable. 

 

But you seem to resent the fact that our having superior knowledge as ex christians 'above and beyond your current personal experience' as a pseudo christian, or whatever, gives us a sense of being superior to you. 

 

But at the end of the day, we are superior to some run of the mill christian dumbass's who don't get it at all. Who are blind the whole way through. And understand very little. Christianity taught us the superiority complex. We were born into it, myself and others who were born into the religion. The difference is simply that we learned that christianity is inferior in X ways. And we moved on and found more superior ways of thinking above and beyond what christianity is limited to and has to offer. 

 

We are literally superior over you and people like you by simple default. 

 

You wanna square off with me, step in the ring.....

 

[Edgarcito]

23 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

You're a dumbass. We can take this to a formal debate any time you want. On what topic? 

 

Superior Knowledge: does it make one superior? 

 

I'll bite.

 

You seem to understand by your admissions above that I and many others here have superior knowledge over you. And you're correct, we do. And it can be listed as demonstrable. 

 

But you seem to resent the fact that our having superior knowledge as ex christians 'above and beyond your current personal experience' as a pseudo christian, or whatever, gives us a sense of being superior to you. 

 

But at the end of the day, we are superior to some run of the mill christian dumbass's who don't get it at all. Who are blind the whole way through. And understand very little. Christianity taught us the superiority complex. We were born into it, myself and others who were born into the religion. The difference is simply that we learned that christianity is inferior in X ways. And we moved on and found more superior ways of thinking above and beyond what christianity is limited to and has to offer. 

 

We are literally superior over you and people like you by simple default. 

 

You wanna square off with me, step in the ring.....

 

Superior in so many ways that my rendering of a myth has you ready to fight..  I rest my case. Btw, fo.

[midniterider]

[Joshpantera]

12 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Superior in so many ways that my rendering of a myth has you ready to fight..  I rest my case. Btw, fo.

 

Your rendering of myth makes you naive, to be nice about it. 

 

You calling me a dumb ass is the fight. So let's do it tough guy. I'll tan your Texas hide in a debate. 

[Edgarcito]

12 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Your rendering of myth makes you naive, to be nice about it. 

 

You calling me a dumb ass is the fight. So let's do it tough guy. I'll tan your Texas hide in a debate. 

Lol, “my tree is bigger than yours”.  Put something out there for consideration..

[Joshpantera]

2 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Lol, “my tree is bigger than yours”.  Put something out there for consideration..

 

My intellectual prowess is bigger than yours, as well as spiritual if we want to go there as well. How's that? And I will kick your ass around mentally or spirituality. I promise. 

[Edgarcito]

3 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

My intellectual prowess is bigger than yours, as well as spiritual if we want to go there as well. How's that? 

You want to participate in an iq test?  Is that what you are proposing??  That will demonstrate your tree is the correct tree through spiritual fruit?

[Edgarcito]

2 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

You want to participate in an iq test?  Is that what you are proposing??  That will demonstrate your tree is the correct tree through spiritual fruit?

Why don’t you come back tomorrow just understanding you are capable of saying some really stupid shit....

[Joshpantera]

So then I take it you don't want a special debate? Just shooting the shit, are you? 

[Edgarcito]

1 minute ago, Joshpantera said:

So then I take it you don't want a special debate? Just shooting the shit, are you? 

Here’s my debate... in your intellectually superior post to me, you were so incredibly wrong, you failed at anything spiritual.  Pretty much end of debate.   Need you demonstrate more prowess??