The Law in the Garden

[WalterP]

3 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

It’s not what Mark said, it’s Walter intentionally mining old conversations for ill intentions... Now, back to the broadcast previously in progress...

 

I mined your filthy dialogue, just from this thread Edgarcito.

 

That's called holding Christians to account for their hypocrisy.

 

I'd do that to any Christian, so its not personal.

[v__a__s__t]

7 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Would you like me to point out all the scriptures that indicate that a Christian who lives a sinful life will lose their salvation? We didn't believe in once saved always saved. The whole point of christ dying for you 2as so that you could become like him.

 

 

[WalterP]

11 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Also some of us have fond memories from real interactions with Mark. Perhaps we could try and not bring whatever he said up in every conversation?? I understand now why Dude bitch slapped me a couple years ago for doing the same thing. There's another guy I miss. 

 

LogicalFallacy,

 

I apologize to you if I've hurt your feelings and your fond memories of Mark. 

 

In future I won't go back to his dealings with Edgarcito (or End3, as he was then) and use them as I've done so recently.

 

The way Edgarcito conducts himself nowadays is more than enough to display his moral and spiritual degeneracy.

 

However, because Mark was a polymath he left behind a wonderful legacy of posts about astronomy and cosmology.

 

These have been very helpful to me in advancing my knowledge of these subjects.

 

They certainly helped me refine my thinking for this pinned thread.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/82597-the-failed-cosmology-of-william-lane-craig/

 

So, is it ok for me to go back to Mark's posts that deal with matters like this?

 

I'm asking because I want to be careful here and will only proceed if I get a green light to do so.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

[Edgarcito]

5 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

LogicalFallacy,

 

I apologize to you if I've hurt your feelings and your fond memories of Mark. 

 

In future I won't go back to his dealings with Edgarcito (or End3, as he was then) and use them as I've done so recently.

 

The way Edgarcito conducts himself nowadays is more than enough to display his moral and spiritual degeneracy.

 

However, because Mark was a polymath he left behind a wonderful legacy of posts about astronomy and cosmology.

 

These have been very helpful to me in advancing my knowledge of these subjects.

 

They certainly helped me refine my thinking for this pinned thread.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/82597-the-failed-cosmology-of-william-lane-craig/

 

So, is it ok for me to go back to Mark's posts that deal with matters like this?

 

I'm asking because I want to be careful here and will only proceed if I get a green light to do so.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

Nice left handed personal attack Walter....you could have just messaged LF.  

[WalterP]

2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Nice left handed personal attack Walter....you could have just messaged LF.  

 

LF wrote what he wanted to openly, so why would I not do the same?

 

 

Btw, my comments on your moral and spiritual condition are based upon what the bible says.

 

It is the yardstick by which the conduct and behaviour of Christians is measured.

 

Holding your behaviour to account by quoting the bible is not a personal attack on you, Edgarcito.

 

As I said 10 hours ago, I'll hold any Christian to account like this.

 

So No, this is not personal.

 

 

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Walter mate, you missed the point. Mark left his legacy, perhaps you could try and leave yours?

 

You don't need my permission to use his posts. It wasn't a cease and desist command. We aren't the CCP.

 

@Edgarcito hit the nail on the head and got more to the point of what I was meaning when he said "It’s not what Mark said, it’s Walter intentionally mining old conversations for ill intentions..." So yeah, it's not so much literally what Mark said, it is using Mark as a weapon in these conversations. That's what peeves me off. But you do you if you feel it achieves something. I'll get over it. 

 

I don't agree with Edgar alot, but in this case I'm more aligned with the Christian than the Atheist.

 

 

 

 

[WalterP]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:18 AM, Weezer said:

When does the penis measuring begin??  

 

One of my points is that with all the loose jointed sadistic thinking and loose ends in Genesis (and elsewhere)  how can anyone think it came from an all knowing, all powerful, supposedly brilliant god??  And if he is all knowing, he knew how it was all going to work out in the end.  Did god get his jollies from watching all that crap he set up to happen??   He knew ahead of time his "angel" would fall from heaven and become satan, etc.  I guess he isn't perfect after all, since his creation didn't turn out like he wanted. The longer I am away from this crap, the more ridicilous it sounds.

 

Hello again Weezer. 

 

I'm sorry but I can't answer your incisive questions.

 

But, since the Christian god is supposed to be all wise and all knowing you would think he'd know ahead of time that Satan would intrude into the bliss of Eden and bring harm and suffering on the two child-like innocents he put there, wouldn't you?

 

After all, the bible itself says this.

 

1 Peter 5 : 8

 

8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

 

Knowing this in advance, you'd think that god would order the archangel Michael (who defeated Satan when there was war in heaven) to stand guard over Eden and protect Adam and Eve, wouldn't you?

 

But, no.

 

 

 

Anyway, if you're interested I can show you something from scripture that reveals something very strange and worrying about god's priorities.

 

Interested?

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WalterP]

13 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Walter mate, you missed the point. Mark left his legacy, perhaps you could try and leave yours?

 

You don't need my permission to use his posts. It wasn't a cease and desist command. We aren't the CCP.

 

@Edgarcito hit the nail on the head and got more to the point of what I was meaning when he said "It’s not what Mark said, it’s Walter intentionally mining old conversations for ill intentions..." So yeah, it's not so much literally what Mark said, it is using Mark as a weapon in these conversations. That's what peeves me off. But you do you if you feel it achieves something. I'll get over it. 

 

I don't agree with Edgar alot, but in this case I'm more aligned with the Christian than the Atheist.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok LF,

 

We seem to be misunderstanding each other somewhat.

 

Sorry about that.

 

Fyi, the weapon I'm wielding is the bible itself and I'm using it to show that its the yardstick by which Christian morality and spirituality is measured.

 

Therefore, its a weapon that can be used against any Christian and not just against Edgarcito.

 

As I've explained to him, its not personal.

 

Any Christian is fair game.

 

And there's no ill intent either.

 

Using their own holy book against the Christians in this forum is something that's been done here before I arrived.

 

I'm just carrying on the good work.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[Edgarcito]

M, his limb of the tree broke off for some reason....he understands the church to the limit he participated...

[Edgarcito]

Walter... his Void connects us, the Christian God ours, not a biggie, just is.  I don't see a commonality either.

[WalterP]

Edgarcito seems to believe that everything would have been just fine in Eden if Adam and Eve hadn't disobeyed god.

 

But he overlooks one huge problem.

 

SATAN

1 Peter 5 : 8

 

8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

 

Scripture tells us that Satan, in the guise of the serpent, had free access to Eden.

 

If god had intended to keep Adam and Eve in Eden forever, why did he allow Satan in?

 

God is all knowing and nothing is hidden from him.

 

So, god would have known exactly what Satan intended before he created him.

 

God would have known exactly what Satan would do before he fell from heaven.

 

God would have known exactly what Satan would say to Eve before god made her from Adam's rib.

 

God would have known every thought in Satan's mind before he thought it.

 

That's what all knowledge means.

 

So how was is it that Satan was able to enter Eden undetected?

 

How is it that Satan decided to question Eve and not Adam about the fruit of the forbidden tree?

 

Why didn't god made at least some effort to keep Adam and Eve safe from such a powerful supernatural being?

 

If god had intended for Adam and Eve to live blissful lives in Eden why didn't he stop Satan.

 

He had the means, he had the motive and he had the opportunity.

 

Any ideas, Edgarcito?

 

 

[WalterP]

23 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Walter... his Void connects us, the Christian God ours, not a biggie, just is.  I don't see a commonality either.

 

And I don't see how this is relevant to this thread.

 

 

[WalterP]

Thinking further Edgarcito, you're bringing something that is proper to your debate with Josh into an unrelated thread.

 

I don't think the RedneckProf would be very happy with that.

 

He's the Moderator and referee of your one-on-one with Josh.

 

He's also made a Peanut Gallery for any comments arising from your debate with Josh.

 

So, if you want to say anything to me about the void, please do it there.

 

Btw, you screwed up on something you wrote to Josh today.

 

But I'll have to tell you all about that in the Peanut Gallery.

[Edgarcito]

Just now, WalterP said:

Thinking further Edgarcito, you're bringing something that is proper to your debate with Josh into an unrelated thread.

 

I don't think the RedneckProf would be very happy with that.

 

He's the Moderator and referee of your one-on-one with Josh.

 

He's also made a Peanut Gallery for any comments arising from your debate with Josh.

 

So, if you want to say anything to me about the void, please do it there.

 

Btw, you screwed up on something you wrote to Josh today.

 

But I'll have to tell you all about that in the Peanut Gallery.

I can't post in that thread Walter.  Secondly, I can read without all the font sizes and boldings.  Would guess they cost Dave and this site more money.  You might want to consider that.

[WalterP]

Just now, Edgarcito said:

I can't post in that thread Walter.  Secondly, I can read without all the font sizes and boldings.  Would guess they cost Dave and this site more money.  You might want to consider that.

 

Ah yes, but you're worth it, Edgarcito. 

 

Anyway, even if you can't post in that thread... I can.

 

So, once I've shown you where you've screwed up you can go back into your debate with Josh and make good on your mistake.

 

 

[Edgarcito]

2 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

Ah yes, but you're worth it, Edgarcito. 

 

Anyway, even if you can't post in that thread... I can.

 

So, once I've shown you where you've screwed up you can go back into your debate with Josh and make good on your mistake.

 

 

Fair enough

[WalterP]

Ok Edgarcito.

 

So, if god had intended to keep Adam and Eve as innocents in Eden forever, why did he let Satan in?

 

To answer this one you'll have to give a credible reason as to how Satan could outflank god.

 

Any ideas?

 

[Edgarcito]

41 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Ok Edgarcito.

 

So, if god had intended to keep Adam and Eve as innocents in Eden forever, why did he let Satan in?

 

To answer this one you'll have to give a credible reason as to how Satan could outflank god.

 

Any ideas?

 

The question is did God intend to keep Adam and Eve as innocents.  I'm thinking He wasn't.

[WalterP]

2 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

The question is did God intend to keep Adam and Eve as innocents.  I'm thinking He wasn't.

 

Then why make them that way in the first place?

[Edgarcito]

5 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

Then why make them that way in the first place?

No idea sir.

[WalterP]

And for that matter, why not Adam and Eve at the same time so that Eve could hear his warning too?

 

Genesis 2 : 16 & 17

 

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

 

If Eve had heard exactly what Adam heard then Satan wouldn't have been able to ask the question, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

 

Because then she could have confidently answered him, quoting exactly what god had said to her.

 

Thus giving Satan no chance of tricking her.

 

That's all god needed to do to stop Satan's plan in its tracks.

 

Create Adam and Eve at the same time and give them both the warning.

 

 

Why didn't god just do that?

 

 

 

[WalterP]

1 minute ago, Edgarcito said:

No idea sir.

 

Well, that's honest of you.

 

So, if you have no idea why he didn't want them to stay as innocents, do you have any idea why he made them as innocents in the first place?

 

 

[WalterP]

As you know I'm a habitual re-reader, Edgarcito.

 

So I've been re-reading this thread from the start today and I saw this exchange between you and the RedneckProf.

 

Posted March 27

  On 3/27/2021 at 12:54 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Why would an omniscient god need to "test" anything?  Shouldn't he have already known the answers?

Why would His omniscience matter with respect to the autonomy of humanity.  Yes, He did know.....the humans didn't.  Idk, teaching and testing kind of walk hand in hand.  I gather this would be more the initial lesson(s) vs. people willingly denying the lesson today.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The autonomy of humanity?

 

Like this definition of autonomy, from the Oxford Dictionary?

 

https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211GB384G0&p=autonomy

 

Autonomy

 

noun

 

1.  The right or condition of self-government

"between the First and Second World Wars, Canada gained greater autonomy from Britain"

 

2.  (in Kantian moral philosophy) the capacity of an agent to act with objective morality rather than under the influence of desires.

 

 

 

Nope.  Can't be either of those.

 

God didn't want Adam and Eve to govern themselves because he was their creator, provider, teacher and lord.

 

They depended on him for everything.

 

If they were to govern themselves that would be rebellion against his lawful rule.

 

 

It can't be the second option, either.

 

God made them without any moral sense whatsoever, unable to tell good from evil, right from wrong.

 

They were not free agents capable of acting according to any objective morality.

 

 

 So, in just what sense did you mean the autonomy of humans like Adam and Eve?

 

Please explain.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

I'll leave you with something humorous because I want to get an early night, Edgarcito.

 

 

God did NOT speak to Eve like this, of course.

 

Anyway, tomorrow.

 

Bye!

[LogicalFallacy]

Dave Allen was a crackup. And hit points so hard with comedy.