The Law in the Garden

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, WalterP said:

I'll leave you with something humorous because I want to get an early night, Edgarcito.

 

 

God did NOT speak to Eve like this, of course.

 

Anyway, tomorrow.

 

Bye!

 

"And this is the book that you go to court and place your hand upon...."

lol.

[WalterP]

So how was is it that Satan was able to enter Eden undetected?

 

How is it that Satan decided to question Eve and not Adam about the fruit of the forbidden tree?

 

Why didn't god made at least some effort to keep Adam and Eve safe from such a powerful supernatural being?

 

If god had intended for Adam and Eve to live blissful lives in Eden why didn't he stop Satan.

 

He had the means, he had the motive and he had the opportunity.

 

Any ideas, Edgarcito?

 

 

Please answer.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

Why would His omniscience matter with respect to the autonomy of humanity.  Yes, He did know.....the humans didn't.  Idk, teaching and testing kind of walk hand in hand.  I gather this would be more the initial lesson(s) vs. people willingly denying the lesson today.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The autonomy of humanity?

Like this definition of autonomy, from the Oxford Dictionary?

 

https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211GB384G0&p=autonomy

 

Autonomy

 

noun

 

1.  The right or condition of self-government

"between the First and Second World Wars, Canada gained greater autonomy from Britain"

 

2.  (in Kantian moral philosophy) the capacity of an agent to act with objective morality rather than under the influence of desires.

 

 

 

Nope.  Can't be either of those.

God didn't want Adam and Eve to govern themselves because he was their creator, provider, teacher and lord.

They depended on him for everything.

If they were to govern themselves that would be rebellion against his lawful rule.

It can't be the second option, either.

God made them without any moral sense whatsoever, unable to tell good from evil, right from wrong.

They were not free agents capable of acting according to any objective morality.

So, in just what sense did you mean the autonomy of humans like Adam and Eve?

Please explain.

Thank you.

Walter.

 

 

Please explain Edgarcito.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

And for that matter, why not Adam and Eve at the same time so that Eve could hear his warning too?

 

Genesis 2 : 16 & 17

 

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

 

If Eve had heard exactly what Adam heard then Satan wouldn't have been able to ask the question, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

 

Because then she could have confidently answered him, quoting exactly what god had said to her.

Thus giving Satan no chance of tricking her.

That's all god needed to do to stop Satan's plan in its tracks.

Create Adam and Eve at the same time and give them both the warning.

Why didn't god just do that?

 

 

Please answer Edgarcito.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:59 PM, Edgarcito said:

No idea sir.

Well, that's honest of you.

 

So, if you have no idea why he didn't want them to stay as innocents, do you have any idea why he made them as innocents in the first place?

 

 

Please answer Edgarcito.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, WalterP said:

So how was is it that Satan was able to enter Eden undetected?

 

How is it that Satan decided to question Eve and not Adam about the fruit of the forbidden tree?

 

Why didn't god made at least some effort to keep Adam and Eve safe from such a powerful supernatural being?

 

If god had intended for Adam and Eve to live blissful lives in Eden why didn't he stop Satan.

 

He had the means, he had the motive and he had the opportunity.

 

Any ideas, Edgarcito?

 

 

Please answer.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

And the Ex-Christians who take apart the Adam and Eve story piece by piece are accused of 'surface reading'. lol 

 

I guess 'reading between the lines' means accepting whatever inane nonsense you read. 

[Edgarcito]

42 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

And the Ex-Christians who take apart the Adam and Eve story piece by piece are accused of 'surface reading'. lol 

 

I guess 'reading between the lines' means accepting whatever inane nonsense you read. 

Quantum amplitude is god...

[WalterP]

5 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Quantum amplitude is god...

 

Josh's model of spirituality is supported by strong scientific evidence.

 

Yours?

 

Oh wait, you haven't defined a proper model yet.

 

 

[WalterP]

Four separate posts are awaiting your answers, Edgarcito.

 

 

[◊ Krowb ◊]

15 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Quantum amplitude is god...

 

I don't see any gods either directly or indirectly - not even demigods or superhumans.

[sdelsolray]

2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Quantum amplitude is god...

 

Did you get this phrase of PittsburghJoe?  Make it up yourself?  Some other source?

Regardless, what does it mean?  In English, please.

[Edgarcito]

28 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Did you get this phrase of PittsburghJoe?  Make it up yourself?  Some other source?

Regardless, what does it mean?  In English, please.

I was being sarcastic... Walter introduced it to the "debate" thread...a link.  I'm not a physicist.  You will get a better explanation please by traversing the link.  Thx.

[WalterP]

6 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I was being sarcastic... Walter introduced it to the "debate" thread...a link.  I'm not a physicist.  You will get a better explanation please by traversing the link.  Thx.

 

Ah yes, sarcasm.

 

Together with personal insults and foul language.

 

The hallmarks of Edgarcito's Bible-based, Christian 'grace'.

 

 

[v__a__s__t]

21 hours ago, WalterP said:

The hallmarks of Edgarcito's Bible-based, Christian 'grace'.

 

 

not hallmarks per se.  but what you are choosing to focus on and in a negative way (possibly without much grace?), and without access to all the factors of why -- both from within and without (possibly without much wisdom?), while interpreting the Bible as you choose to (not how most actual Christians might or at all how Edgarcito might either), and saying it has to be what should control E. at all times (even though Christians are not robots) and even though that's not even what actual Christians even believe.  and even though there are many many verses and many many interpretations of the Bible that speak otherwise of your own interpretations of what it all means -- to boot. 

 

while at the same time not even mentioning (on another thread) how the opposing party is likewise similar in language at times... whether or not his (J's) beliefs/spirituality says it's ok or not, it is still happening... and does not seem to be even mentioned, but instead so so many many things are rather obviously assumed and projected onto Christians and onto Edgarcito over and over again.... unless you are a mind/heart reader?   is this wisdom?  is this grace?  

[v__a__s__t]

On 4/16/2021 at 6:21 PM, WalterP said:

Four separate posts are awaiting your answers, Edgarcito.

 

 

 

Jesus Is the Question: The 307 Questions Jesus Asked and the 3 He Answered

[WalterP]

2 hours ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

not hallmarks per se.  but what you are choosing to focus on and in a negative way (possibly without much grace?), and without access to all the factors of why -- both from within and without (possibly without much wisdom?), while interpreting the Bible as you choose to (not how most actual Christians might or at all how Edgarcito might either), and saying it has to be what should control E. at all times (even though Christians are not robots) and even though that's not even what actual Christians even believe.  and even though there are many many verses and many many interpretations of the Bible that speak otherwise of your own interpretations of what it all means -- to boot. 

 

while at the same time not even mentioning (on another thread) how the opposing party is likewise similar in language at times... whether or not his (J's) beliefs/spirituality says it's ok or not, it is still happening... and does not seem to be even mentioned, but instead so so many many things are rather obviously assumed and projected onto Christians and onto Edgarcito over and over again.... unless you are a mind/heart reader?   is this wisdom?  is this grace?  

 

You are missing the ever so simple point completely, v_a_s_t.

 

Edgarcito is the Christian in this equation and I am not.

 

Since he invokes grace as fundamental to his beliefs it falls to him to display it in his conduct.

 

If you can argue that his sarcastic, insulting and foul-mouthed conduct is graceful, then please do so.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

2 hours ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

Jesus Is the Question: The 307 Questions Jesus Asked and the 3 He Answered

 

Jesus is not a registered member of Ex-Christian.net and so cannot participate in this thread.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, WalterP said:

 

Jesus is not a registered member of Ex-Christian.net and so cannot participate in this thread.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

That is not true.

 

 

[v__a__s__t]

3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

That is not true.

 

 

 

that would appear to be true.

[v__a__s__t]

 

 

ways of thinking for Christians or anybody towards others/outsiders that are not necessarily very wise.  to become as a child (open-minded) -- to learn what is truth... seems wise, or the close-mindedness on anything that a person is close-minded about can possibly blind us on that one thing.  a blind spot in the brain.

[WalterP]

4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

That is not true.

 

 

 

I stand corrected.

 

Thank you for this, Professor.

 

 

Hmmm... since Jesus IS a member of Ex-C, then maybe he can shed some light on what happened in Eden?

 

After all, according to Genesis 3 : 22, all three members of the godhead were there.

 

22 

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”

[WalterP]

1 hour ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

that would appear to be true.

 

In which case v_a_s_t, you should ask Jesus to answer his own questions.

 

Jesus Is the Question: The 307 Questions Jesus Asked and the 3 He Answered

 

Only 304 to go.

 

But perhaps he should start up a new thread to do so.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Hmmm... since Jesus IS a member of Ex-C, then maybe he can shed some light on what happened in Eden?

He'll come back someday.

[WalterP]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

He'll come back someday.

 

Promises, promises.

[v__a__s__t]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

He'll come back someday.

 

1 hour ago, WalterP said:

 

Promises, promises.

 

25Listen carefully, I have told you in advance. 26So if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out there, or, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms [of a house],’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming [in glory] of the Son of Man [everyone will see Him clearly]. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the [e]vultures will flock together.