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The Law in the Garden


Edgarcito

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12 minutes ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

 

25Listen carefully, I have told you in advance. 26So if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out there, or, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms [of a house],’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming [in glory] of the Son of Man [everyone will see Him clearly]. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the [e]vultures will flock together.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

 

25Listen carefully, I have told you in advance. 26So if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out there, or, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms [of a house],’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming [in glory] of the Son of Man [everyone will see Him clearly]. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the [e]vultures will flock together.

 

Are you waiting for Jesus? 

 

 

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Thank you v_a_s-t, for taking this thread off-topic.

 

Now, back to what went down in the garden of Eden.

 

Four separate posts are still awaiting your answers, Edgarcito.

 

 

 

 

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This weekend I've been thinking on something that this thread brought up.  If the purpose of Jesus as part of the trinity was to save mankind and free us from the law, and Jesus is part of the trinity referred to in the "like us" part of Genesis, then this entire existence and chain of events was intentionally created prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. They were designed to fail, god knew they would fail, and if we follow the typical trinitarian view, Jesus (as savior of mankind) was created from time eternal, prior to the creation of the world, specifically for the mess god knew he was creating.  This may throw a little more light on the whole "why was Satan allowed in the garden" bit.  Jesus is unnecessary without the need for the redemption. Holy spirit even more superfluous.  Satan is not evil under this view, but following his script as villain, and Jesus his role as savior. 

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3 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

Are you waiting for Jesus? 

 

 

no.  and yes.

 

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.” Notice the meaning of perfect in this text: “Unto a perfect man, unto . . . the stature . . . of Christ.”

 

from: https://pacinst.com/efh/chapter15/returned.html

 

King James Version
 

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

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2 minutes ago, Krowb said:

This weekend I've been thinking on something that this thread brought up.  If the purpose of Jesus as part of the trinity was to save mankind and free us from the law, and Jesus is part of the trinity referred to in the "like us" part of Genesis, then this entire existence and chain of events was intentionally created prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. They were designed to fail, god knew they would fail, and if we follow the typical trinitarian view, Jesus (as savior of mankind) was created from time eternal, prior to the creation of the world, specifically for the mess god knew he was creating.  This may throw a little more light on the whole "why was Satan allowed in the garden" bit.  Jesus is unnecessary without the need for the redemption. Holy spirit even more superfluous.  Satan is not evil under this view, but following his script as villain, and Jesus his role as savior. 

 

Consider this please, Krowb.

 

Given what you've written above, do you think Adam and Eve ever had a chance of passing god's test?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, v__a__s__t said:

no.  and yes.

 

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.” Notice the meaning of perfect in this text: “Unto a perfect man, unto . . . the stature . . . of Christ.”

 

from: https://pacinst.com/efh/chapter15/returned.html

 

King James Version
 

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

Please keep to the topic of this thread, v_a_s_t.

 

The Garden of Eden.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Krowb said:

This weekend I've been thinking on something that this thread brought up.  If the purpose of Jesus as part of the trinity was to save mankind and free us from the law, and Jesus is part of the trinity referred to in the "like us" part of Genesis, then this entire existence and chain of events was intentionally created prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. They were designed to fail, god knew they would fail, and if we follow the typical trinitarian view, Jesus (as savior of mankind) was created from time eternal, prior to the creation of the world, specifically for the mess god knew he was creating.  This may throw a little more light on the whole "why was Satan allowed in the garden" bit.  Jesus is unnecessary without the need for the redemption. Holy spirit even more superfluous.  Satan is not evil under this view, but following his script as villain, and Jesus his role as savior. 

Back to the op K, two proposals, one leading one direction, the other, another.  Both available.  You’ll have to show intent.

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24 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Thank you v_a_s-t, for taking this thread off-topic.

 

Now, back to what went down in the garden of Eden.

 

Four separate posts are still awaiting your answers, Edgarcito.

 

 

 

 

he might find this helpful, i just came across this:

 

"...  a definition of the perfection which God requires becomes apparent. God requires that the person reach a point where it would be impossible for him ever to sin again. Even Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before sin entered were not perfect according to this standard, for even though they had never sinned until Satan beguiled the woman, they were capable of sinning. God wants His people to attain such quality of character that they are incapable of breaking His law. He wants His people to reach the point where their characters will not permit them to sin."

 

from: https://pacinst.com/efh/chapter15/returned.html

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17 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Given what you've written above, do you think Adam and Eve ever had a chance of passing god's test?

 

Only if we do not grant god omnipotence, then no, they stood no chance against being deceived, being entirely unable to comprehend deceit.

 

If we grant god omnipotence, then Adam and Eve did exactly what god planned as the Word/Jesus predates even the creation of the world.

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Ed,

 

Just to understand your theology a little better, are you saying that the creation of the Word, prior to the creation of the world, was just a contingency plan in case Adam and Eve chose incorrectly?  God, knowing all things, did not know what choice Eve would make when she would inevitably encounter The deceiver?  Or am I misunderstanding your position?

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1 minute ago, Krowb said:

 

Only if we do not grant god omnipotence, then no, they stood no chance against being deceived, being entirely unable to comprehend deceit.

 

If we grant god omnipotence, then Adam and Eve did exactly what god planned as the Word/Jesus predates even the creation of the world.

Do you feel like you have a choice... any indication you are under the control of omniscience other than big tech...

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Just now, Edgarcito said:

Do you feel like you have a choice... any indication you are under the control of omniscience other than big tech...

 

What I feel and what is are not always in agreement.  Just ask any teenager.

 

To me, if the Bible's account of creation is true, then it's becoming clear that god placed two mice in a terrarium with existence's most dangerous snake and failed to warn them of the danger.  At least mice naturally fear snakes.  Adam and Eve were more like dodo birds.

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Just now, Krowb said:

 

What I feel and what is are not always in agreement.  Just ask any teenager.

 

To me, if the Bible's account of creation is true, then it's becoming clear that god placed two mice in a terrarium with existence's most dangerous snake and failed to warn them of the danger.  At least mice naturally fear snakes.  Adam and Eve were more like dodo birds.

Good deal K... live your life like that...

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So I guess in answer to my question, Ed does not believe in the omniscience of god.  His god is something less than all-knowing - hence the requirement for contingency plans.

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42 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Do you feel like you have a choice... any indication you are under the control of omniscience other than big tech...

 

That's an unfair comparison and we've already covered this, Edgarcito.

 

Adam and Eve were not human in the way we are human.

 

So, your question to the human called Krowb cannot be used to tell us anything meaningful.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges.

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Back to the op K, two proposals, one leading one direction, the other, another.  Both available.  You’ll have to show intent.

 

Krowb doesn't have to show intent, Edgarcito.

 

God's perfect foreknowledge means that he knew every thought and plan Satan would ever have, before he was created.

 

God's all power means that he could have stopped Satan from even approaching Eden if he had wanted to.

 

But scripture tells us that Satan was able to freely enter Eden and talk with Eve.

 

So, please answer these two questions.

 

Did god know in advance that Satan would try and enter Eden with evil intent?

 

Could god have done something to prevent this from happening?

 

Please answer.

 

Your truthful answers will tell us what we need to know about god's intent.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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15 minutes ago, Krowb said:

So I guess in answer to my question, Ed does not believe in the omniscience of god.  His god is something less than all-knowing - hence the requirement for contingency plans.

No it’s you that doesn’t know the complete story...

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Just now, Edgarcito said:

No it’s you that doesn’t know the complete story...

Please support your "complete story"

 

Do I need the Book of Mormon or the Quran to complete it?  Or perhaps I have the wrong translation.

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13 minutes ago, Krowb said:

So I guess in answer to my question, Ed does not believe in the omniscience of god.  His god is something less than all-knowing - hence the requirement for contingency plans.

 

Ah yes, but its a matter of priorities, Krowb.

 

In god's eyes, protecting the dead body of Moses from Satan was much more important than protecting his innocent children from Satan.

 

That's why god ordered the archangel Michael (who defeated Satan in combat) to protect Moses' corpse.

 

Jude 9.

 

 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

 

See?

 

The body of a dead prophet is much more important to god than his innocent children.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

No it’s you that doesn’t know the complete story...

 

How about refuting or confirming Krowb's statement?

 

Do you believe that god is omniscient? 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

What had Adam and Eve picked God’s choice...  do you know?  Is there a scenario, either way, where our ignorance totally understands the consequences...  again , EITHER way.

 

God understands ALL choices and knows ALL consequences before they occur.

 

It is god's intent that is under the spotlight here.

 

Not Adam and Eve's nor Satan's nor anyone else's.

 

Why didn't the all powerful knower of all things protect his children from Satan?

 

What was his intent in letting Satan into Eden?

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