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Ed: You really run into the same dilemma with your theory as Christianity.  The formation is from a whole, but the process has the capability to choose to bond to possibilities within the whole such that you become separate from the whole.  I.e, you may still be within the whole, but broken away from the process that created you...based on consciousness in this case.  It's essentially like the argument against Christianity...

 

........

 

The formation is from the whole ... you never separate from the whole ...  you cannot separate from the whole ... it is an illusion. You are a bag of skin, but that bag needs to be surrounded by oxygen at all times, so it's not separate from the oxygen. And the oxygen has to reside somewhere , like the earth. So we are not separate from the earth. And we cant be without the sun or we cease to exist. We are not separate from the sun. And the sun needs to reside in space or it ceases to exist. etc etc forever and ever. Everything is part of the whole. 

 

Separation is an appearance, not a fact. 

 

Ed thinks non-duality is farfetched. But his imaginary friend Jesus is perfectly acceptable.

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So here's the deal.  I'm starting to think that it is just not connectivity alone, but maybe a specific type or types of connectivity that produce the key to unlocking knowing the something larger.  So the universe might hold a connectivity and humanity may hold a certain set of connectives that are common to the universe but distinct in humans....chemistry/physics.

 

Betting money that if we knew more about chemistry/physics, the more likely we might understand religion, myths, spirituality.  

 

Little bit scary though, John 1:1....in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and was God.   In other words a certain joinery/dispensation was given in the creation and although we are part of that larger group, the specific joinery/combinations run through humanity and if we don't actively maintain those bonds, the joinery has the potential to move us outside of that group.  

 

Just sci-fi thinking out loud, but it's just spirituality, right?

 

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A knowledge-based approach to understanding reality, Edgarcito?

 

Finding connections between yourself and everything else through knowing, not through faith?

 

If you don't know, how can you connect?

 

 

 

 

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"So here's the deal.  I'm starting to think that it is just not connectivity alone, but maybe a specific type or types of connectivity that .....

 

...........

 

Maybe TCP/IP.

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So here's the deal.  I'm starting to think that it is just not connectivity alone, but maybe a specific type or types of connectivity that produce the key to unlocking knowing the something larger.  So the universe might hold a connectivity and humanity may hold a certain set of connectives that are common to the universe but distinct in humans....chemistry/physics.

 

Betting money that if we knew more about chemistry/physics, the more likely we might understand religion, myths, spirituality.  

 

Little bit scary though, John 1:1....in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and was God.   In other words a certain joinery/dispensation was given in the creation and although we are part of that larger group, the specific joinery/combinations run through humanity and if we don't actively maintain those bonds, the joinery has the potential to move us outside of that group.  

 

Just sci-fi thinking out loud, but it's just spirituality, right?

 

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Hebrews 11

 

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 

2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

 

 

 

Edgarcito, if you go with faith then you are going with what you do not see.

 

But knowledge only applies to what you see, not what you do not see.

 

So, if you are going with faith, then you need to edit your own post and remove the words 'knowing' and 'knew'.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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Well let's move down your path for few posts and see where it goes.  All this manifestation of "universal consciousness".  Are humans in error with this consciousness when they feel love is right and hate/evil is wrong?  Or is this just human influence on the consciousness that is an illegitimate, out of harmony with the greater.

 

I realize that before you have attempted to state that whatever happens just is. 

 

So again, WHY do humans have any spirituality at all?  What's the purpose?  And if you think about it, we can't even claim to discern anything because it's relative to the universe.....which we can't really define, ......so why not go with the potentially errant ideals of morality.  

 

Josh, that's a really really illogical thing you have going there.  There is no standard, so again, why does spirituality have any value at all?  And ultimately how can it be superior if the manifestations have no ultimate value themselves other than their own interpretation.....which you say is, "just is".

 

What is the consciousness doing specifically with the human manifestation, and why is it wrong at all for that manifestation to develop in the way that it develops, REGARDLESS.  If you can't answer that, you have no means of defining superior.  AT ALL.  And the likelihood that you are right in your assessment is minuscule....like the gluon...  

 

..........

 

Christianity is much more logical. 

 

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On 5/3/2021 at 9:28 PM, WalterP said:

Do you realize Josh, that because you cite the/your gluon theory/research, that this gives you absolutely no authority to claim science and spirituality merge, until you have the steps in between to connect the two?  Do you not have a fundamental understanding of science?  That's a HUGE no no in science.  They would disqualify a third grade science fair project for what you are suggesting. 

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Are you sure about that, Edgarcito?

If you disallow Josh from merging science and spirituality, then you'll also have to disallow these folks from doing that.

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/Center

William Lane Craig merges science and spirituality.

https://biologos.org/

So does the physician and geneticist Francis Collins.

https://reasons.org/

And the astrophysicist Hugh Ross.

You can't have one rule for some folks and another for others.

Thank you.

Walter.

 

Bumped for Edgarcito's attention.

 

If these Christians can merge science and spirituality, then so can Josh.

 

If Josh can't, then neither can they.

 

Which is it, Edgarcito,?

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And if Josh can't merge science and spirituality, then neither could this scientist who was also a priest.

 

Which is it, Edgarcito?

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"I forgot... you make fun of my Bronze Age beliefs but yours are superior bc they are older, but new science is better than old observations/ observers....got it. "

 

Eh..... I know I'm biased on this, I really do. But damn. I can't help but think about all the people that had to convert or die because of Jesus. When ya really get to thinking about how Christianity did all those horrible things, the good wholesome spiritual sensation and feeling connected too and guided by that God...... just doesn't seem that great anymore. Edgarcito should read the book. "God is not great" by Christopher Hitchens and see if he still gets the warm fuzzies about his God. 

 

That is one connection to spirituality that the world would have been better off without. Its always Muslims, Jews, and Christians wanting to start a war. Fuck all those fucks. 

 

*EDIT: Just realized that sounded really bad. (Like possible racist bad)  When I say Fuck all those Fucks, im more so directing that to the religions in general and the people that use those religions to start wars. And have killed innumeral people over the years. Please accept my apologies if anyone took that the wrong way. I should have worded that a little better. 

 

DB

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You aren't omniscient, you are not omnipresent, you are not omni-anything that I can tell, nor am I.

 

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According to Path Integral theory, the probability wave of a quantum particle is spread throughout the entire universe and is interconnected with every other probability wave from every other particle in the universe.

 

This means that Edgarcito is not a separate, sharply-defined individual existing only on Earth and nowhere else in reality.

 

It means that he is spread across the entire universe and connected to every other part of the universe. 

 

Edgarcito is omnipresent.

 

As is Josh and as are all things.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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4 minutes ago, WalterP said:

You aren't omniscient, you are not omnipresent, you are not omni-anything that I can tell, nor am I.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

According to Path Integral theory, the probability wave of a quantum particle is spread throughout the entire universe and is interconnected with every other probability wave from every other particle in the universe.

 

This means that Edgarcito is not a separate, sharply-defined individual existing only on Earth and nowhere else in reality.

 

It means that he is spread across the entire universe and connected to every other part of the universe. 

 

Edgarcito is omnipresent.

 

As is Josh and as are all things.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

Probability deals with possibilities, not certainties.

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2 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Probability deals with possibilities, not certainties.

 

I agree.

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comparing spiritual superiority, I gather the reason we are not progressing is that Christianity assigns purpose to our consciousness where yours says we are a form, but not so much purpose, rather form drives responsibility?  Idk, you'd have to clue me in on if your beliefs require responsibility...  I guess consciousness has no "why" in your model?

 

I have a thought on his comment here. He mentions Christianity not progressing. Well that is well and true. Christianity is on the downward trend because they aren't progressing but also because they are not allowing society to progress either. That goes for all Bible related religions. 

     They are wanting the world to adhere to ancient fairytales and superstitions. The flat earther movement wouldn't be going on right now if there weren't a massive amount of people that:

 

A) figured out that the Bible truly does depict a flat earth creation

 

And

 

B ) believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. 

 

 

Now tons of people have bought into these idiotic conspiracy theories. 

 

Could you imagine the things humanity could do if there were no religions to squabble over a bunch of shit that isn't even real? They are fighting about shit from thousands of years ago and a lot of it is just a myth. But they believe its true and affect the whole world with there fanaticism. 

 

Millions of people in America couldn't marry the ones they loved until just a few years ago. Why? The Bible. The Bible said homosexuals were bad. So they warred against them.

 

 They still stone women for biblical sins in the middle east. I mean seriously. Stoning people in 2021.

 

 

Religion is a shackle that is holding humanity hostage from our full potential. If the world would embrace human advancement like they do ancient myths. In another 1000 years, who knows ,we could be exploring other galaxies. Mining gold on the moon or iron ore from Mars. Our whole solar system could be a resource for this planet. 

 

Now that would be pretty damn awesome. 

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39 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

. In another 1000 years, who knows ,we could be exploring other galaxies. Mining gold on the moon or iron ore from Mars. Our whole solar system could be a resource for this planet. 

 

Now that would be pretty damn awesome. 

 

The enemy put that evil space travel thought in your head, buddy. /s

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7 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

The enemy put that evil space travel thought in your head, buddy. /s

 

Lemme guess. "The devil" is whispering in my ear? 😆 

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On 5/24/2021 at 11:58 PM, DarkBishop said:

Religion is a shackle that is holding humanity hostage from our full potential. If the world would embrace human advancement like they do ancient myths. In another 1000 years, who knows ,we could be exploring other galaxies. Mining gold on the moon or iron ore from Mars. Our whole solar system could be a resource for this planet. 

 

I've been saying that for years. Especially when stem cell research was the big issue. They were literally trying to hold back scientific advancement over the myths of the bible, or just mere interpretations of the myths of the bible. 

 

 

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On 5/24/2021 at 11:58 PM, DarkBishop said:

Religion is a shackle that is holding humanity hostage from our full potential. If the world would embrace human advancement like they do ancient myths. In another 1000 years, who knows ,we could be exploring other galaxies. Mining gold on the moon or iron ore from Mars. Our whole solar system could be a resource for this planet. 

Religion, at least Abrahamic religions, thrive and really can only exist where ignorance is rampant.

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