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6 minutes ago, Extant said:

 

Ah... the lord as the fertility god - like Sobek.

     Yeah, although I was thinking more along the lines of Baal or Asherah.

 

          mwc

 

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6 hours ago, mwc said:

     I would look at Sarah and Rachel who are both also in Genesis.  In the case of Sarah we have: 16:2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her” and Rachel there is: 30:2 Jacob became angry with her and said, “Am I in the place of God, who has kept you from having children?”  They're telling us god prevents conception.  The evidence for this, is in the previous chapter: 31 When the Lord saw that Leah was not loved, he enabled her to conceive, but Rachel remained childless.  And then later on in the chapter 30: 22 Then God remembered Rachel; he listened to her and enabled her to conceive. 23 She became pregnant and gave birth to a son and said, “God has taken away my disgrace.”  And we know the story of Sarah having Isaac when god finally lets it happen.

 

     So it would appear that god played a role in all conceptions.  If he didn't allow it to happen then you did not conceive.  In this case Eve would require god to help to have a child.

 

          mwc

 

 

 

 

And this would seem to fit with Psalm 139 : 13 - 14, mwc.

 

13 For you created my inmost being;
    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
    when I was made in the secret place,
    when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
    all the days ordained for me were written in your book
    before one of them came to be.

 

And Job 31 : 15

 

15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
    Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

 

And Ecclesiastes 11 : 5

 

As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.

 

And Isaiah 44 : 1 & 2. (and 44 : 24 & 49 : 5)

 

44 “But now listen, Jacob, my servant,
    Israel, whom I have chosen.
2 This is what the Lord says—
    he who made you, who formed you in the womb,
    and who will help you:
Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant,
    Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

 

And Jeremiah 1 : 4 & 5

 

4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/20/2021 at 12:07 PM, midniterider said:

I think Alex in the video takes kind of a false dilemma approach to it... you either want to do something or you are forced to! Guess there's no in between? No other choices? 

 

You know maybe I would pick chocolate chip mint ice cream 99 times out of a hundred but maybe that 100th time I get a flash of cleavage from behind the counter and I say Rocky Road! 

 

Maybe Alex needs to get obliterated on whiskey and his friends can tell him about the stuff he cant remember doing the night before. Did he want to do those things? :) Was he forced to? 

 

 

Yeah, Alex is fantastic at logic. I even like the fact that once in awhile he finds fault with his own past logic, admits it in a new video, thereby perfecting his ongoing logic. Like me, he is a devout atheist, but once he conceded failure of logic in a debate with a Christian when reviewing his logic in retrospect. Not that the Christian was right, only that the logic he used was inadequate concerning one particular aspect of the debate. 

 

I think what Alex has, much of the world including many scientists are missing, sound LOGIC.

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8 hours ago, WalterP said:

 

And this would seem to fit with Psalm 139 : 13 - 14, mwc.

 

13 For you created my inmost being;
    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
    when I was made in the secret place,
    when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
    all the days ordained for me were written in your book
    before one of them came to be.

 

And Job 31 : 15

 

15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
    Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

 

And Ecclesiastes 11 : 5

 

As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.

 

And Isaiah 44 : 1 & 2. (and 44 : 24 & 49 : 5)

 

44 “But now listen, Jacob, my servant,
    Israel, whom I have chosen.
2 This is what the Lord says—
    he who made you, who formed you in the womb,
    and who will help you:
Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant,
    Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

 

And Jeremiah 1 : 4 & 5

 

4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

 

     Exactly, thanks.  Once we move beyond Genesis it's clear that other authors, from many time periods, also believe that god was key.  It seems to be a fairly widespread and lasting belief as to how these things worked within the religion.  Also, as Extant reminded us with Sobek, and as I was thinking with Baal and Asherah, it was cross-cultural.  I'd say it is pretty safe to say this is just how people thought babies were made.

 

          mwc

 

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15 hours ago, mwc said:

     Exactly, thanks.  Once we move beyond Genesis it's clear that other authors, from many time periods, also believe that god was key.  It seems to be a fairly widespread and lasting belief as to how these things worked within the religion.  Also, as Extant reminded us with Sobek, and as I was thinking with Baal and Asherah, it was cross-cultural.  I'd say it is pretty safe to say this is just how people thought babies were made.

 

          mwc

 

 

Agree.  

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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On 4/21/2021 at 1:48 AM, Extant said:

 

I always wondered about that. Why the "I have gotten a man from the Lord" part? Technically, just because it says Adam had sex with Eve, it doesn't necessarily mean she conceived a baby with him. It does specifically say she got a man from the lord though.

 

He actual looked with favor on both (you know - the he loves everyone thing). It wasn't until Cain did his todo there was a problem. You'll notice he doesn't do anything to stop bad things from happening. He didn't stop Eve. He didn't stop Cain. When I was around sixteen or seventeen my stepfather came home early in the morning after drinking all night. He went and got his gun and I asked what are you doing - he was going to kill his boss. I stopped him. Should I have let him kill his boss and let the cards fall where they may? Was I wrong stopping him? If I didn't stop him, would I have been and accomplice? Should I have strived to be more like the lord god of the Bible?

 

 

 

Extant,

 

In my opinion you shouldn't beat yourself up about this.

 

Consider for a moment what you've said about god DOING NOTHING to stop bad things from happening.

 

Surely, if you had strived to be more like god then you would have DONE NOTHING to stop your stepfather?

 

By DOING SOMETHING to stop harm and suffering you demonstrated a different morality to god's.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

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I am in a moment in my life where I am researching religious phenomena and this reminds of one very important subject. Not why people believe, which is a subject in itself, but why they might WANT to believe. It seems to me that, psychologically speaking, what we WANT to believe influences what we end up believing, like a lot. Would anyone agree? The same goes for free will.

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1 hour ago, Myrkhoos said:

I am in a moment in my life where I am researching religious phenomena and this reminds of one very important subject. Not why people believe, which is a subject in itself, but why they might WANT to believe. It seems to me that, psychologically speaking, what we WANT to believe influences what we end up believing, like a lot. Would anyone agree? The same goes for free will.

 

I agree. I wasnt raised in the Christian culture so I believe or half-way believe things I prefer. 

 

As far as free will, I'm not logical or philosophical enough to dissect free will as some have. I just go along with general society who seem to feel that we do have a free will.  

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