Back to this again :(

[fluffyapple]

I managed to distract myself from the whole hell thing for a little while. Not that I didn't think about it at all, but I wasn't feeling as horrible as I did before. Now I'm back to where I started. I'm terrified of going to hell or sinning. After all these months, I'm getting so tired. I don't know how to convince myself that I'll be okay because there's a possibility that there may be eternal flames or some other torture waiting for me. I don't want to live the rest of my life in fear, but I don't know how to help myself in this situation. It's like this fear has been deeply ingrained inside of me. Ughhhh.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The opposite of fear is not courage.  It's knowledge. 

[Joshpantera]

23 hours ago, fluffyapple said:

I managed to distract myself from the whole hell thing for a little while. Not that I didn't think about it at all, but I wasn't feeling as horrible as I did before. Now I'm back to where I started. I'm terrified of going to hell or sinning. After all these months, I'm getting so tired. I don't know how to convince myself that I'll be okay because there's a possibility that there may be eternal flames or some other torture waiting for me. I don't want to live the rest of my life in fear, but I don't know how to help myself in this situation. It's like this fear has been deeply ingrained inside of me. Ughhhh.

 

We know that it was created by religious writers and leaders as a way of trying to control social populations. It didn't exist as a concept, and then a trail of slow, bit by bit, evolution of concepts began to take shape as people were making it up. You can see the evidences of it being made up through time.

 

It's always been made up. Never real. 

 

 

Most of people's ideas about hell come from the post biblical period. From literature like Dante's Inferno. 

 

Fiction is fiction. 

 

There's no reality to any of it aside from creative works of fiction. You just have to get to the point where you understand this for yourself. And can put it behind you once and for all. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Did you try the thought experiment I suggested?  If not, I'd recommend doing it, soon, and with the added thought of "If god is willing to send all of these people to hell, though many have sought him in their own way, is he really a loving god?"

[v__a__s__t]

On 4/24/2021 at 9:54 AM, fluffyapple said:

I managed to distract myself from the whole hell thing for a little while. Not that I didn't think about it at all, but I wasn't feeling as horrible as I did before. Now I'm back to where I started. I'm terrified of going to hell or sinning. After all these months, I'm getting so tired. I don't know how to convince myself that I'll be okay because there's a possibility that there may be eternal flames or some other torture waiting for me. I don't want to live the rest of my life in fear, but I don't know how to help myself in this situation. It's like this fear has been deeply ingrained inside of me. Ughhhh.

 

these might help also, as well as what others have said:

 

 

112 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY AND THE SALVATION OF ALL AND THAT HIS LOVE NEVER FAILS, IT NEVER QUITS

 

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

by Thomas Whittemore

---

Many early American Christians discovered Jesus as the Savior of the whole world. I have come across hundreds of old books written in the late 1700s and early 1800s that declare in Scriptural form the Everlasting Gospel that Jesus will redeem every single soul created. One of these books had a chapter, reprinted below, that commented on 100 Scriptures that declare the salvation of all mankind.

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

these might help also, as well as what others have said:

 

 

112 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY AND THE SALVATION OF ALL AND THAT HIS LOVE NEVER FAILS, IT NEVER QUITS

 

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

by Thomas Whittemore

---

Many early American Christians discovered Jesus as the Savior of the whole world. I have come across hundreds of old books written in the late 1700s and early 1800s that declare in Scriptural form the Everlasting Gospel that Jesus will redeem every single soul created. One of these books had a chapter, reprinted below, that commented on 100 Scriptures that declare the salvation of all mankind.

 

If you mean that some christians don't believe in hell either, so that's an added reason not to be afraid of hell, I understand the implication. Maybe that could help as well, maybe not. But the problem with the above logic is that it's contradicted by scripture in too many places to ignore. It wasn't colored in with depth until much later, but the idea of being sent to punishment is a front row feature of the NT. And ignoring that only amounts to christians picking and choosing their way through the bible like a grocery isle, picking off the shelf of scripture what they like and leaving on the shelf of scripture what they don't care for. 

 

What trumps the entire thing is the fact that the bible is a work of fiction. So regardless of what christians argue about concerning hell, it's not any different than Star Wars fans arguing about the light and dark side of the force. The interpretations are irrelevant against the underlying fact that we're talking about a work of fiction. 

[Myrkhoos]

1. Did you seek therapy?

 

It seems your probl is one of uncertainty. You cannot possibly check if the Bible stories are real or not as you do not jave a time machine. By check I mean in a most certain clear simple way.

     So you want to eliminate even tge possibility of any type of postmorten punishment, regardless of source. That seems a hard if not impossible task. Better find ways to deal with that uncertainty.

     On universal salvation. The idea was there from the first centurirs and there are writings on it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

19 hours ago, v__a__s__t said:

 

these might help also, as well as what others have said:

 

 

112 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY AND THE SALVATION OF ALL AND THAT HIS LOVE NEVER FAILS, IT NEVER QUITS

 

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

by Thomas Whittemore

---

Many early American Christians discovered Jesus as the Savior of the whole world. I have come across hundreds of old books written in the late 1700s and early 1800s that declare in Scriptural form the Everlasting Gospel that Jesus will redeem every single soul created. One of these books had a chapter, reprinted below, that commented on 100 Scriptures that declare the salvation of all mankind.

 

@fluffyapple

 

I dont know where exactly vast is going with this. He/she is posting pro Christian BS outside of the designated area. I hope that vast is suggesting that there are Christians that don't believe in hell like Josh pointed out. But that really doesn't matter since the whole of the Bible and what their supposed God does and doesn't want for Christians is all BS. I would not suggest trying to find comfort for your fears in scripture. 

 

Your best friend to rid yourself of these fears is constant study from secular scholars. Did you get the book heaven and hell a history of the afterlife by Bart Ehrmann? I've been reading it and it gives a very detailed and understandable history of how the MYTH of hell came into being. It is very good. I believe that once you see how it is all made up you will feel more secure in your deconversion. 

 

Thankfully I haven't felt the fear of hell in a long time. It is unfortunate that so many people are being brainwashed into believing such horrible things. When you really pick apart the whole religion it is demeaning. The narrative that is preached makes you believe that you are worthless, your not worthy of gods good graces just because you were born. (In sin) yet you did nothing. And then tries to turn you into someone else entirely (Christ Like) and the bar is set so high that it is impossible to satisfy this God. Your never really gonna be as good as this Jesus guy. It is a horrible horrible horrible religion that has caused far more pain, grief, and death in the world probably anything else. We have been fighting wars brought on between Bible based religions for over 2000 years. Its pathetic. For such a Godly people their acts sure have been Godless over the years. 

[Jackie]

This video debunks hell quite nicely:

 

[Joshpantera]

The video nicely illustrates how disadvantaged christian apologist's are against applied logic and reason. No matter what direction they try and take, the bottom line is that all of their available directions originate out of unproven, unverified, presuppositions. If the presupposition is wrong, everything else will be wrong thereafter. 

 

God is a presupposition.

The bible god is another level of presupposition on top of that. 

All that goes along with the bible god, like hell, extends from the first two presuppositions. 

 

That's why they can't make any headway against people who question their claims. There was never any reality to the claims in the first place. And the whole thing folds under close examination. 

[midniterider]

5 hours ago, Jackie said:

This video debunks hell quite nicely:

 

 

God wouldnt put his stamp of approval on scripture that said he was an asshole. lol 

[Jackie]

7 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

God wouldnt put his stamp of approval on scripture that said he was an asshole. lol 

Haha that was my favourite bit 

[florduh]

On 4/24/2021 at 9:54 AM, fluffyapple said:

there's a possibility that there may be eternal flames or some other torture waiting for me.

No, no possibility. The more you know the more you leave fear behind.

[Joshpantera]

The possibility is so remote as to be zero. Put it that way. I'll be a monkey's uncle if anything from the bible concerning a god, afterlife, or any of it is real. As totally out of the question, as out of the question, can possibly be. 

[v__a__s__t]

18 hours ago, florduh said:

No, no possibility. The more you know the more you leave fear behind.

 

@fluffyapple

 

too much fear is unhealthy.  really not good for you probably.

 

look up the book, "The Secret" also I'd suggest.  as anything, you might want to take it with grains of salt.

[v__a__s__t]

19 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

...  if anything from the bible concerning a god, afterlife, or any of it is real. As totally out of the question, as out of the question, can possibly be. 

 

 

 

“

No idea is so strong it should not be tested by doubt, and no man so powerful that he is infallible.

”

 

[WalterP]

Hello v_a_s_t.   

 

Here is what this, the 'Got Questions?' section is about.

 

 

Got Questions?

Got questions about life, leaving the faith or how to use the features on this site? Just ask! 

 

 

 

 

 

Fluffyapple's initial post concerned the second, leaving the faith.

 

Also, the main function of the entire Ex-Christian.net site is to help those wishing to leave the faith.

 

But I'm confused.

 

Could you please explain how your three posts in this thread are meant to help fluffyapple do that?

 

To leave the Christian faith?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[fluffyapple]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:53 PM, Joshpantera said:

The possibility is so remote as to be zero. Put it that way. I'll be a monkey's uncle if anything from the bible concerning a god, afterlife, or any of it is real. As totally out of the question, as out of the question, can possibly be. 

How do you know that though?

[◊ Krowb ◊]

1 hour ago, fluffyapple said:

How do you know that though?

That's a good question and one I'm sure Josh and others are happy to walk you through as many here are former pastors.

 

A quick though experiment is Judaism doesn't believe in Hell.  Jewish people are supposedly god's chosen people.  Doesn't that strike you as strange?  Many of our visuals about hell come from Revelations, which spent ~200 years (many generations) outside the Bible as non-canon.  Revelations was treated the same way by the early church as we treat the Book of Judas today.

 

Another interesting point is since god is light and hell is complete separation from god, hell was scene was a place of eternal darkness and cold prior to acceptance of Revelations and especially Dante's Inferno.  In the old churches the iconography depicts devils and demons as blue, to indicate coldness and darkness.  They didn't turn red until much later.

 

Looking forward to seeing others walk you through the issues that our modern conception of hell raises.

 

 

[◊ Krowb ◊]

I would like to add that Josh is not claiming to "know" it in the sense of knowledge, but that he has a very strong belief that your conception of hell as a literal place of eternal punishment most likely not true.  There is strong evidence (-in the legal sense Walter) the claims made in favor of such a Hell are incorrect and not be relied on.  There is also evidence against a place because it contradicts at least two of gods generally accepted attributes - love and omnipresence.

 

Hope this helps!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

How can literal "flames" burn an invisible spirit?   I am betting my soul there is no hell.

[Myrkhoos]

7 hours ago, Weezer said:

How can literal "flames" burn an invisible spirit?   I am betting my soul there is no hell.

Well, the flames are spiritual as well. Plus the soul is not immaterial, at least in the Orthodox tradition. Created being's soul are refined matter. Sort of like invisible gas can burn.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Fluffyapple, I didn't read all the responses to your post, but have you sought professional help?  All the responses here will do nothing for you until you decide to do something different than what you have been doing.  Best wishes!

[florduh]

On 4/28/2021 at 7:52 PM, fluffyapple said:

How do you know that though?

Any extraordinary claim such as a literal hell, but also many other outrageous claims of talking snakes, the dead rising, and all the other fairy tales, requires evidence that it's true and not just some wild assertion. Without the evidence, and there is none, the default position is to not believe it otherwise we'd be expected to believe in Santa, Xenu, Muslim Hell, Fairies and the Easter Bunny as well. IOW, you don't need any reason or evidence to NOT believe unsupported claims.

[Myrkhoos]

4 hours ago, florduh said:

Any extraordinary claim such as a literal hell, but also many other outrageous claims of talking snakes, the dead rising, and all the other fairy tales, requires evidence that it's true and not just some wild assertion. Without the evidence, and there is none, the default position is to not believe it otherwise we'd be expected to believe in Santa, Xenu, Muslim Hell, Fairies and the Easter Bunny as well. IOW, you don't need any reason or evidence to NOT believe unsupported claims.

     I think his issue is that while he does not believe it, it might be true.

     I don't believe that Bidennis an alien from the Orion Constellation, but then agan I don't know. Not believing smth does not mean it is not true. Not having evidence does not mean it is not true. The thing I do not see an easy way to really eliminate the what if? In its absolute extreme form.

     I mean one can feel terrified about going out of the house for fear of geting killed by a cop, to mention smth contemporary. At some level WE all live and cope with risk :?