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Semmelweis Reflex


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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

Not the point. JW are cultist. If anyone is "apostate" it's them.

 

Okay.

 

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

I can download the watchtower library. But I won't be able to read the whole library. You will need to give me specifics. The equivalent of "book chapter verse" 

 

 

Okay. Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul dies. Matthew 28:10 concurs. To me, that is enough. Here is a JW article on the soul. Keep in mind, they are self taught researchers. Not scholars. They do cite various scholars, but they aren't talking to a bunch of mouthy ignorant ex-Christians. 

 

Now you show me a bunch of respected scholars of Christendom who say the soul is immortal and why. Like the Watchtower did with their position that the soul isn't immortal. Keeping in mind that the Watchtower have their own experts which means you can find a scholar for any position you take. 

 

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

If your even critical of that then all your assertions are baseless. You have shown no true education even in your own beliefs.

You have yet to refer me to a specific study on any point you have tried to make thus far.

 

And if I do that you would change your mind immediately! You wouldn't spin it. You wouldn't question their authority? You wouldn't disagree? Everything is settled, correct? 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

Okay. Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul dies. Matthew 28:10 concurs. To me, that is enough. Here is a JW article on the soul. Keep in mind, they are self taught researchers. Not scholars. They do cite various scholars, but they aren't talking to a bunch of mouthy ignorant ex-Christians. 

 

Ok finally. Something I can read. And I will. I will reply to this after I do so.

 

21 minutes ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

Now you show me a bunch of respected scholars of Christendom who say the soul is immortal and why. Like the Watchtower did with their position that the soul isn't immortal.

 

Mmm why would I do that. I dont believe in what chrisrendom has either. Are you wanting me to play devils advocate? Debate on the side of Christianity even though I'm not Christian anymore? I would be willing to do that if you were a fellow exchristian trying to prove that science trumps Christianity but I don't debate in favor of Christianity anymore. 

 

@WalterP might be interested in doing that. 

 

27 minutes ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

And if I do that you would change your mind immediately! You wouldn't spin it. You wouldn't question their authority? You wouldn't disagree? Everything is settled, correct? 

 

No the point of a debate is that we don't agree. We would be debating each other. We would each have opening statements for our views on a subject. Then we would have rebuttals to each others posts. I thought you said you've debated before. It's a back and forth thing. Not a my JW researcher said this. Now I'm converted. That's a ridiculous notion. I dont believe in fairy tales anymore.

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54 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Ok finally. Something I can read. And I will. I will reply to this after I do so.

 

 

Mmm why would I do that. I dont believe in what chrisrendom has either. Are you wanting me to play devils advocate? Debate on the side of Christianity even though I'm not Christian anymore? I would be willing to do that if you were a fellow exchristian trying to prove that science trumps Christianity but I don't debate in favor of Christianity anymore. 

 

@WalterP might be interested in doing that. 

 

 

No the point of a debate is that we don't agree. We would be debating each other. We would each have opening statements for our views on a subject. Then we would have rebuttals to each others posts. I thought you said you've debated before. It's a back and forth thing. Not a my JW researcher said this. Now I'm converted. That's a ridiculous notion. I dont believe in fairy tales anymore.

 

It must be a reading comprehension thing with you people. 

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Ok finally. Something I can read. And I will. I will reply to this after I do so.

 

 

Mmm why would I do that. I dont believe in what chrisrendom has either. Are you wanting me to play devils advocate? Debate on the side of Christianity even though I'm not Christian anymore? I would be willing to do that if you were a fellow exchristian trying to prove that science trumps Christianity but I don't debate in favor of Christianity anymore. 

 

@WalterP might be interested in doing that. 

 

 

No the point of a debate is that we don't agree. We would be debating each other. We would each have opening statements for our views on a subject. Then we would have rebuttals to each others posts. I thought you said you've debated before. It's a back and forth thing. Not a my JW researcher said this. Now I'm converted. That's a ridiculous notion. I dont believe in fairy tales anymore.

 

No DB, Walter would not be interested in doing that.

 

That's because SR and I cannot agree the terms under which we would debate.

 

Game over.

 

Or rather, game not even begun.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

 

It must be a reading comprehension thing with you people. 

No its just ! Not believing all the bull shit that is coming out of your mouth and needing a somewhat credible source of information thing with us people. 

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51 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

No DB, Walter would not be interested in doing that.

 

That's because SR and I cannot agree the terms under which we would debate.

 

Game over.

 

Or rather, game not even begun.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

10/4 

 

I just knew you liked to debate scriptures from watching you and Edgacito. I'm just not really into debating for the Bible anymore. I'd rather debate against it if I'm going to debate something. 

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13 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

No its just ! Not believing all the bull shit that is coming out of your mouth and needing a somewhat credible source of information thing with us people. 

 

Then why don't you stop wasting my time and provide a reasonable response. 

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7 minutes ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

 

Then why don't you stop wasting my time and provide a reasonable response. 

Because I have a life to live and want to give the link you provided a thorough examination. I have not had the time today to devote to it since you posted it. I will tag you in my response when I'm ready. I ready said I don't rush these things. Patience grasshopper. How can I give a proper response without properly studying it?

 

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@SemmelweisReflex,

 

You have mentioned there is a "correct" way to pray.  We earlier had a poster by the name of @Brothermario who also said there was a "correct" way to pray (more encompassing than merely prayer).  You can read through his posts.

 

What is the "correct" way to pray that will reveal god to us as he has done for you?

 

Brothermario was kind enough to tell us we needed to spend a few years as catholic monks to truly have the deep experiences he had - though he was quite doubtful we were worthy enough for god to bother with.

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5 hours ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

Okay. Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul dies. Matthew 28:10 concurs. To me, that is enough. Here is a JW article on the soul. Keep in mind, they are self taught researchers. Not scholars. They do cite various scholars, but they aren't talking to a bunch of mouthy ignorant ex-Christians. 

 

So what if I agree with your experts on this semmelweis? I agree that in the earliest writings they did not really consider themselves immortal. They believed that when one died that was it. They just died.. Humans weren't immortal. Only the gods were. 

 

However, my expert for the reason I don't believe the original Hebrew writings depicted an immortal soul is Bart Ehrman.

 

I referred you to read his book. HEAVEN AND HELL. have you been able to read it any of it yet? Here is another excerpt from his book. 

 

"Another striking image comes in the words of the famous skeptic Job:

 

As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so mortals lie down and do not rise again; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake or be roused from their sleep. (Job 14:11–12)

 

For this great poet of the ancient Israelite tradition, life comes no more once a person is dead. There is no life after death. Only death after death."

                                       ~ Bart Ehrman

 

I fail to see how that makes them any better or worse or more accurate than any other Christian. They still believe in a false God. They just don't accept the science that proves their God was made up. Am I supposed to bow down in awe now or something?

 

Have you looked at those geological studies about the Large localized flooding but no world wide flooding? 

 

 

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13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

No its just ! Not believing all the bull shit that is coming out of your mouth and needing a somewhat credible source of information thing with us people. 

 

Stop using that as an excuse when the best thing you can come up with is a vague and unsubstantiated claim by an atheist Bible scholar. When talking about the Bible the Bible is the only credible source there is and by trying to defend your position with academia is nonsensical. Especially if you don't know the Bible. And you obviously don't. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

 

Stop using that as an excuse when the best thing you can come up with is a vague and unsubstantiated claim by an atheist Bible scholar. When talking about the Bible the Bible is the only credible source there is and by trying to defend your position with academia is nonsensical. Especially if you don't know the Bible. And you obviously don't. 

 

 

Oh Wow. Are you pissed off that I:

 

1) agreed with the point your researchers made about what the ancient isrealites believed concerning the soul?

 

2) That I proved the same point by quoting a very well written book by Bart Ehrman?

 

You know in that excerpt he used the Bible right? That book he quoted. JOB. Yeah its in there. Are you sure you know the bible semmelweis? I'm confident that out of all the people who have posted on this thread. You sir are the least educated concerning the bible.

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And @SemmelweisReflex Im not wasting my time watching a video by some delusional fairytale believing Christian speaking against a man I know to be extremely well educated, even by Christian standards. He went to Princeton and the Moody Bible Institute. 

 

How about we stop this whole discourse now SF. I told you before. No one here will fault you for going along your merry way. Believing what you believe in ignorant bliss. I told you. If your belief makes you happy then go live you life happily believing all your nonsense. Your not going to win anyone over here. When your gone some other guy will eventually come in with his/her interpretation. Thinking they have all the answers etc. It's a reoccurring thing here ya know. 😉 

 

And there are no hard feelings. I'd still sit down and have a beer with ya. When I was a Christian. I had a Mormon friend I worked with for about a year. We debated back and forth all the time. But we still respected each other. He was my friend. He passed of mesothelioma about 4 years ago. I'll say to this day, he was a good man. His beliefs were just BS. 

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1 hour ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

 

...

When talking about the Bible the Bible is the only credible source there is and by trying to defend your position with academia is nonsensical.

... 

 

 

 

Folks, note the desperation, shallowness and intellectual dishonesty of poster SemmelwiesReflex's wishful thinking.

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1 hour ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

vague and unsubstantiated claim by an atheist Bible scholar.

 

Actually Agnostic Athiest. There is a difference. 

 

But you need to realize that I'm giving you little tidbits of a 329 page thesis on the evolution of the heaven and hell myths. I can't stress enough that HE DOES SUBSTATIATE HIS CONCLUSIONS. But I can't copy and paste whole chapters where he substantiated them. YOU need to read the book. I promise! He takes his time explaining what all lead up to these changes in belief over time. 

 

In one of his books. Forgeries and counter forgeries. He is studying the books of the new testament. And trying to determine if any of them are not written by the accepted author. He wrote chapter, after chapter, about the different criteria he used. It was so thoroughly explained that after 3 chapters of him justifying his findings. I still skipped 4 more chapters just to get to the start of his thesis. The preface of this one however is much more interesting. 

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2 hours ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

When talking about the Bible the Bible is the only credible source there is...

 

You can't use the Bible to corroborate what's in the Bible.  If that were so, I could simply write on a piece of paper "Today, June 18, 2021 at 10:32 a.m. CDT, Astreja K. Odinsdottir strangled Jehovah with his own pubic hairs and dumped his corpse into the sun," and it would have exactly the same veracity that you're claiming for your scripture.

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2 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Oh Wow. Are you pissed off that I:

 

1) agreed with the point your researchers made about what the ancient isrealites believed concerning the soul?

 

2) That I proved the same point by quoting a very well written book by Bart Ehrman?

 

You know in that excerpt he used the Bible right? That book he quoted. JOB. Yeah its in there. Are you sure you know the bible semmelweis? I'm confident that out of all the people who have posted on this thread. You sir are the least educated concerning the bible.

 

The point of contention I had with Ehrman was the same as the one Craig referred to in the video. Not a fan of William Lane Craig, by the way, but he made a good point. Job most certainly held a resurrection hope. No one seriously doubts this. 

 

If you need me to show you where it was written then you need to study more. Job 14 and 19 to get you started and remember, they didn't have the chapter and verse you repeatedly cry out for. 

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21 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

You can't use the Bible to corroborate what's in the Bible.  If that were so, I could simply write on a piece of paper "Today, June 18, 2021 at 10:32 a.m. CDT, Astreja K. Odinsdottir strangled Jehovah with his own pubic hairs and dumped his corpse into the sun," and it would have exactly the same veracity that you're claiming for your scripture.

 

A common misconception. First of all, commentaries, like my own only examine the Bible, and secondly, the Bible isn't a paper written by one person. It's a collection of 66 books written by over 40 different authors over a period of hundreds of years. It isn't a text book it's a body of work. 

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2 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

And @SemmelweisReflex Im not wasting my time watching a video by some delusional fairytale believing Christian speaking against a man I know to be extremely well educated, even by Christian standards. He went to Princeton and the Moody Bible Institute

 

So what? Craig had a very similar background. I wouldn't recommend listening much to either. But to each his own. 

 

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1 hour ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Folks, note the desperation, shallowness and intellectual dishonesty of poster SemmelwiesReflex's wishful thinking.

 

Harry Potter is the only credible source to use to discuss Harry Potter.

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Actually Agnostic Athiest. There is a difference. 

 

Not really. 

 

 

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Just now, midniterider said:

 

Harry Potter is the only credible source to use to discuss Harry Potter.

 

The only? No. The most reliable? Yes. The authoritative? Yes. 

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When talking about the Bible the Bible is the only credible source there is...

 

 

 

But what about interpreting the bible?

 

What is the only credible way of doing that?

 

?

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1 hour ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

 

A common misconception. First of all, commentaries, like my own only examine the Bible, and secondly, the Bible isn't a paper written by one person. It's a collection of 66 books written by over 40 different authors over a period of hundreds of years. It isn't a text book it's a body of work. 

 

IMO, the Bible is an anthology of fiction.  Given such obvious mythological tropes as 40-year road trips that never happened, a virgin birth, people coming back to life, a boat full of animals surviving a 40-day downpour and a Talking Snake™, I'm always baffled as to why adults take it seriously.

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1 hour ago, WalterP said:

When talking about the Bible the Bible is the only credible source there is...

 

 

 

But what about interpreting the bible?

 

What is the only credible way of doing that?

 

?

 

Your own way. Your way for you and my way for me. 

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