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Semmelweis Reflex


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1 hour ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

Almost ready . . . soon we move on to phase 3. 

 

LoL... this is funny. 

 

@TheRedneckProfessor looks like he has some multiphase Devine plan for our re-conversion or something. Or maybe its the downfall of our basis for not believing. Jeez SF. Your a piece of work. 

 

All you have to do to understand why we don't believe is to walk the footsteps we've walked. You know. Walk a mile in their shoes kinda thing. To do that you would have to read what we've read. And watch what we've watched with an open mind. 

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5 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

LoL... this is funny. 

 

@TheRedneckProfessor looks like he has some multiphase Devine plan for our re-conversion or something. Or maybe its the downfall of our basis for not believing. Jeez SF. Your a piece of work. 

 

All you have to do to understand why we don't believe is to walk the footsteps we've walked. You know. Walk a mile in their shoes kinda thing. To do that you would have to read what we've read. And watch what we've watched with an open mind. 

 

Phase 3: Deploy the demon nonsense. 

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38 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

LoL... this is funny. 

 

@TheRedneckProfessor looks like he has some multiphase Devine plan for our re-conversion or something. Or maybe its the downfall of our basis for not believing. Jeez SF. Your a piece of work. 

Nah.  He's hoping to get banned so that he can consider himself a martyr and get his persecution complex masturbated.  He sees it as phase 1: warning... phase 2: confinement to The Den... phase 3: "Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!"  He's been begging for a banning since he first got here.  What he doesn't seem to realize is that he's been treated exactly the same as every other believer who comes here.  And he's not going to get banned unless he starts breaking rules or has a complete meltdown.  So he's not going to get his martyrdom either way.  Bless his heart.

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6 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Nah.  He's hoping to get banned so that he can consider himself a martyr and get his persecution complex masturbated.  He sees it as phase 1: warning... phase 2: confinement to The Den... phase 3: "Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!"  He's been begging for a banning since he first got here.  What he doesn't seem to realize is that he's been treated exactly the same as every other believer who comes here.  And he's not going to get banned unless he starts breaking rules or has a complete meltdown.  So he's not going to get his martyrdom either way.  Bless his heart.

I miss him already.

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4 hours ago, SemmelweisReflex said:

 

... Like I said, I think you people really like a good pat on the back by your group members.  

 

What if that were so?

What of it?

 

If you have come to know folks with whom you share common belief and understanding, why would you not find satisfaction in that agreement and accord?

 

You posit that as if it were some sort of de-facto proof that someone is less than sincere, or wrong in their belief.

 

 

 

 

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@SemmelweisReflex

 

I've given you a number of items to look over. Have you given me the courtesy to look over any of it yet. 

 

Two different studies on the glacial floods. One from the Smithsonian Institute, the other from a geologist speaking against Bible bias flood geologists.

 

A referral to read heaven and hell. By Bart Ehrman

 

A link showing you the various authorships of the first five books of the Bible. None of them being Moses. 

 

Your the horse. Here's the water. ^^^^ 

 

 

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8 hours ago, SemmelweisReflex said:


Really? Show me those posts.

 

I'm not your librarian, SR.

 

Quote

I think you like to think you are helping people while not having the insight to see you are only hurting yourself. Like I said, I think you people really like a good pat on the back by your group members.  

 

Better the pain of facing the real world than the false comfort of religion.

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@Joshpantera 

 

I've been reading on the formation of the Jehovas Witness tonight. Apparently they also stemmed from the Millerite movement just as the SDA did. I find it amazing that instead of realizing that he was wrong and going back to life as normal, they instead formed a whole new collective of denominations after the great disappointment. 

 

Apparently we had it all wrong guys. Jesus is here now and has been here since shortly after the Civil War. Shhh don't tell anybody tho. He's invisible. 

 

"By 1904, Russell's doctrinal development was almost complete. His sixth and final part of "Studies in the Scriptures", The New Creation, established that Revelation 7 spoke of two heavenly classes of Christians — 144,000 who would serve as a royal priesthood with Christ and a Great Company who would be brought to perfection on a lesser plane, similar to that of angels, serving the 144,000.[54] He believed that 1878 marked the "fall of Babylon", when God officially judged that Christendom had proven unfaithful.[55][56] He believed the "time of the end" in Daniel 12 ran from 1799 to 1914, that Christ had returned to earth in 1874, began his reign in 1878 and that from that date the anointed had been resurrected to heaven at their death. He initially taught that Armageddon had begun in 1874, which would culminate in worldwide anarchy and the overthrow of all political rulership in 1914 at the conclusion of the "times of the Gentiles", but by 1897 began to teach that Armageddon would instead begin in 1914"

 

@SemmelweisReflex

 

Let's just keep pushing those dates back. Told you I would start looking into the JW and picking it apart. 😏 do you actually believe some of this rubbish?

 

Everybody had it wrong until the last 150 years when Charles Russell came along. And christ came back in 1874..... but we can't see him..... apparently..... we should probably be deep in that time of anarchy by now right? ...... or ...... maybe..... thats invisible to.... yeah let's go with that. Sounds good right? Hmm let me see if I can go find out some more bullshit about this denomination. 

 

To be continued.

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Continued. @SemmelweisReflex

 

Well this explains a few things. 

 

"He commissioned a new translation of the Bible, which was released progressively from 1950, before being published as the complete New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in 1961. Also produced were a Greek-English New Testament interlinear (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures) and a Bible encyclopedia (Aid to Bible Understanding). 

 

I'm figuring out that the JW were originally all about individual interpretation.  They started out as Bible study groups.  Lead by Russell. Later leaders began creating the denomination as we know it. And of course created doctrines. Seems like I remember some JW telling me about there "Bible studies" 

 

And of course for the third time dates were pushed back on their predictions. Tsk tsk some people never learn.

 

"From 1966, Witness publications heightened anticipation of Christ's thousand-year millennial reign beginning in 1975. Repeating the 1925 cycle of excitement, anticipation and then disappointment, Witness publications and convention talks intensified focus on 1975 as the "appropriate" time for God to act"

 

"In 1976 The Watchtower advised those who had been "disappointed" by the failure of the predictions for 1975 to adjust their viewpoint because their understanding had been "based on wrong premises"

 

Yep. Yall upset people just need an adjustment. Wonder why they were upset after selling there houses and land to devote time to preach the word and save gods people, thinking it was all gonna be over in 1975. Why in the world would they be upset. It's a mystery..... 

 

"In 1995, changes regarding their understanding of Jesus' comments regarding "this generation" (from Matthew 24:34) were published.[218] Throughout the previous four decades, Jehovah's Witnesses had taught that the generation that saw the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon came.[219] The understanding of the "generation" was again adjusted in 2008, to refer to the remnant of the anointed.[220] In 2010, the definition of the generation was changed again, wherein the lives of anointed individuals living in 1914 overlap with a second group alive in the present day.[221] Jehovah's Witnesses continue to teach that Armageddon is imminent"

 

Well well imagine that. They finally had to push that back too. They aren't hitting to many home runs here @SemmelweisReflex seems like they are doing exactly what every other Christian denomination has done since Jesus. Pushing everything back and making excuses because it never happens. 

 

Oh gosh. Yawn yawn. 🥱 seems like I've seen this movie before. About every modern sect I've looked into plays out about the same. Atleast the SDA made some of their prophecies come true. 

 

 

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Everyone who tries date setting has to "kick the can" down the road of time as they attach themselves to certain failure. The JW being probably the worst possible example of date setting attempts. Miller backed off. White didn't set dates, but claimed to have visions that placed herself and contemporaries in her time among the 144,000 remnant of Israel mentioned in Revelation. Who are those living at the time of the second coming.

 

So when she died those prophecies or visions were immediately rendered false. Fast forward to Herald Camping and his rapture dates. He had to let it go after blatant failure. I remember him saying to a reporter after he finally spoke publicly, "I'm flabbergasted!" He was flabbergasted that his reckoning of the dates in the bible didn't render a rapture and end times events. 

 

Credulous, emotionally invested people are what keep these blatantly false religious beliefs and denominations alive. Without support they would "surely die." 

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6 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

Credulous, emotionally invested people are what keep these blatantly false religious beliefs and denominations alive. Without support they would "surely die." 

 

Well I'm certainly glad they have people like SF to keep that flame alive 🔥. 🤣

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3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

He initially taught that Armageddon had begun in 1874, which would culminate in worldwide anarchy and the overthrow of all political rulership in 1914 at the conclusion of the "times of the Gentiles", but by 1897 began to teach that Armageddon would instead begin in 1914"


Interesting date, 1914.  They must have been really excited by the outbreak of the Great War in August that year, and by the time of Russell’s death in 1916 it probably looked to much of the world that Armageddon had indeed begun.  By 1919, not so much.  

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2 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Witness publications heightened anticipation of Christ's thousand-year millennial reign beginning in 1975.

 I was born in '73, so they were only off by 2 years.   😎

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6 minutes ago, TABA said:


Interesting date, 1914.  They must have been really excited by the outbreak of the Great War in August that year, and by the time of Russell’s death in 1916 it probably looked to much of the world that Armageddon had indeed begun.  By 1919, not so much.  

 

That's actually an interesting thought for me. I was in the Church of God the Gospel Assembly, it branched off of the Union assembly, who's founder came out of the mountain assembly. He had a revelation in scripture and was kicked out of the Mountain assembly when they didn't accept his preaching. He left and formed the Church of God of the Union assembly.

 

I said all that to sat this. He had a very unorthodox interpretation of creation. He was very charismatic for his time. He built a very profitable cult. During world War II he was convinced that Hitler was the antichrist. By this time the church was spanning all over the area and branched into other states. He and "the council" preached his beliefs of Hitler to the congregations. They asked members to give their land to the church and in return they would put them up in a home. Free of charge. Many members did. Their plan was to build a community to wait out the antichrist. They believed they were the chosen congregation, gods people, that the great whore of Babylon and the beast come against at the end of time. 

 

But world War II came and went, Hitler died, and eventually the church started  charging those people that had given them the land for the houses and apartments they were living in. People lost everything, and it got worse. 

 

I would like to share there beliefs one day...... but I'm not quite ready yet. Just don't really like to think on the things I believed and preached. Knowing that I was part of a cult. 

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Someone could right now claim that the three female founders of the hashtag BLM movement are not only self proclaimed, trained marxist's, but the false prophet, beast, and antichrist of Revelation! And start off on an end times series of predictions based on just as bad math and poor reasoning as Miller, Russell, Camping, or anyone else previous who tried similar. It's there for the taking. Almost anything can be fashioned into a christian oriented religious con. 

 

Most people would call it bullshit. But no doubt there would be some people who would buy it regardless of how ridiculous the math or premise. And then money could be made, land could be taken, and all of it.

 

That's a pretty close analogy to what it must have been like for people living in Miller and Russell's time. Or around the second world war as your example. People caught up in the politics of the time and place were swept in by a religious con. And they couldn't manage to look past the immediate political controversies they were facing. Or see how history always repeats itself and none of these things ever do amount to "end times," regardless of what they seem like or appear to be at the time. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

Everyone who tries date setting has to "kick the can" down the road of time as they attach themselves to certain failure. The JW being probably the worst possible example of date setting attempts. Miller backed off. White didn't set dates, but claimed to have visions that placed herself and contemporaries in her time among the 144,000 remnant of Israel mentioned in Revelation. Who are those living at the time of the second coming.

 

So when she died those prophecies or visions were immediately rendered false. Fast forward to Herald Camping and his rapture dates. He had to let it go after blatant failure. I remember him saying to a reporter after he finally spoke publicly, "I'm flabbergasted!" He was flabbergasted that his reckoning of the dates in the bible didn't render a rapture and end times events. 

 

Credulous, emotionally invested people are what keep these blatantly false religious beliefs and denominations alive. Without support they would "surely die." 

 

Right. Exactly. So in a very basic sense what you have is really simple though it may seem terribly convoluted. Idiots looking for something where there is nothing; mass hysteria empowered by seemingly providing the idiots with what they want for the provider's own personal political and financial incentive. It isn't exclusive to religion by any means. 

 

So Does God see into the future? No. He doesn't. How could he? The future doesn't exist. God sees how things are in all probability to unfold. Setting dates or trying to determine when the end of the world - not the end of the planet we live on but the societies we build - is superstitious religious nonsense predicated upon the fact that the uninformed see God as some cosmic fortune teller. 

 

You could more rationally argue that God will decide when the kingdoms of men will be destroyed or more realistically allowed to destroy themselves. God says: "All right, that's enough." God will know it is time when it is time. In the case of the flood a period of 120 years was set in which time Noah prepared. It took 50 years to build the ark, it took time for animals to gather, Noah's sons to be born, grow, find wives while allowing for them to warn people. (Genesis 6) 

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Why? Been missing his Devine Revelations? Lmao!!! 🤣🤣 he's had a week to think about what to say when he gets back. I wonder what inspirational wisdom he will have for us. 🤪😜

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I have to admit. At the height of my zeal for Jebuz and the goot lort.  I would probably have been much like him if I had passed by this community online back then? It's weird to think how different I am now. And how much of an asshole I was then. Damn I'm glad I deconverted. 

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

I have to admit. At the height of my zeal for Jebuz and the goot lort.  I would probably have been much like him if I had passed by this community online back then? It's weird to think how different I am now. And how much of an asshole I was then. Damn I'm glad I deconverted. 

Yeah, but when you are "lost" and a group of people start paying attention to you......then it's pretty much human nature to say whatever they are doing is right because it feels so right to you.  Then it progresses into 3.5 hymns, potlucks, and two prayers to be right.  And then right is 3.5 kids and the SUV and knowing there are people that just don't get it like you do.  I still believe but also think it was healthy for me to contest my beliefs and then decide whether I believed after that.  And this place just so happened to be the test.  Fundamentalism is just part of the evangelical process I think.  

 

Haven't read the Bible in years but on occasion.  The message is so much more clear now....and different, than it was before.  I realize not for you, but still feels like home for me...which is ok for both of us.

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23 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Haven't read the Bible in years but on occasion.  The message is so much more clear now....and different, than it was before.  I realize not for you, but still feels like home for me...which is ok for both of us.

It seems you use the Bible to support your ever changing views, and that's okay. FWIW, you are the least obnoxious believer around these here parts. That's pretty high praise. 🤣

 

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41 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Yeah, but when you are "lost" and a group of people start paying attention to you......then it's pretty much human nature to say whatever they are doing is right because it feels so right to you.  Then it progresses into 3.5 hymns, potlucks, and two prayers to be right.  And then right is 3.5 kids and the SUV and knowing there are people that just don't get it like you do. 

 

Yep. Sounds like you get it too. 

 

43 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I realize not for you, but still feels like home for me...which is ok for both of us.

 

I dunno how ya do it now. But your right. More power to ya bro. If that's what makes you happy. Then that's awesome and who am I to try n shit on your happiness. 

 

24 minutes ago, florduh said:

you are the least obnoxious believer around these here parts. That's pretty high praise. 🤣

 

I'm gonna have to second that notion 🤣

 

Reminds me of the church business meetings. Now we just need everybody to say "AMEN!" 

 

And you'll officially be the least obnoxious Christian on ExC. 😆

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