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Believers, what's your excuse?


florduh
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8 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

You know I am a subpar Christian DB, so my miracle powers are not up to Jesus level.  I've felt I could kill folks before, but never bring them back to life....

Lmao 🤣 fair enough. 

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1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

 

@Edgarcito

Josh was tagging you to reply to the OP. I quoted it above for your convenience. Do you have the power to heal the sick and blind sir? Have you ever seen it done? Why can't we see Christians doing this today? In my time as a Christian I saw many people prayed over and anointed in oil. Yet no real miracles. Closest I saw was a man that went off his meds and he got better. But that was because the doctors had him on a bad mixture. He then later divorced his wife and quickly married another woman..... hmmmm guess he may have been closer to the Lord in her bed..... who knows 🤣

Medical error is quite prevalent. Not the norm, but a significamt amount. There is even a name. Iatrogenic harm.

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     It's well known that verses like the OP all refer to the apostolic age.  It began on Pentecost after the resurrection and ended when the last (original) apostle died.  They did all sorts of magical things.  Better than jesus.  So much better.  The best of the best.  Oh, the things they did.  Amazing things.  Anyhow, they did them, it was super great for them for awhile, but now no one does.  The end.

 

          mwc

 

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Jesus was partially right. Humanity did do greater things than him. They just didnt need to believe in him to do them. 

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Humans managed to discover and teach that simply washing your hands before eating or providing medical care to another is wise and extremely beneficial.

 

You would think that ol' Jesus could have managed that much while he walked among us.

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Again I ask, Christians, why aren't you doing anything Jesus promised that you would do? You've had lots of time and have plenty of believers, so how about it? Move a mountain or something.

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On 6/14/2021 at 2:28 PM, Edgarcito said:

Ah the hypocrisy....captain spiritual is now on the boat that literally sinks or floats.  "Please hush" as my dear grandmother would say.

 

Let me rephrase this in a more polite tone:

 

Josh, I don't understand, when it's you wishing to me metaphorical, anecdotal, non-literal, it's okay.  But when it's a Christian, you need answers?  Would you please explain?

 

 

 

So your answer is that jesus never literally did any miracles? They are only metaphor?

 

It's not about what I believe, it's about what you christians believe about the bible. Or don't believe but act as if you do. That's the point of the OP. The bible says that IF you believe then you will do all of the listed things, which, are things which jesus himself is able to do according to the mythological fable. 

 

Here's the two most glaring options that I see: 

 

1) If all the miracles mentioned are not real, literal, or objectively true, then you may as well count out jesus as metaphor too and call it all quits. None of it's literal, including jesus, and so the list of things true believers are supposed to do isn't literally true either, because, none of it's literally true. If you agree with this, then you agree with captain spiritual. I call BS on the entire thing - none of it's true. 

 

2) But if you're not tossing the whole thing as untrue, then you would be picking and choosing. And if you're picking and choosing what is or is not literally true, then you should explain to everyone by what 'methodology' you use to pick and choose what is or is not literally true. Captain spiritual does not agree with willy nilly picking and choosing what is or is not literal about the bible. And we'd be out of agreement there. 

 

 

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The key here is whoever believes. When it doesn’t work out, the fallback is well, you didn’t believe enough so there’s something wrong with the believer.

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20 minutes ago, Bedouin said:

The key here is whoever believes. When it doesn’t work out, the fallback is well, you didn’t believe enough so there’s something wrong with the believer.

Thanks for bringing up this often used canard.  Convenient, isn't it?  Actually, it is a cowardly retort...an immature and shallow apology.

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51 minutes ago, Bedouin said:

The key here is whoever believes. When it doesn’t work out, the fallback is well, you didn’t believe enough so there’s something wrong with the believer.

So that would be all of them.

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8 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

Some how our last apologist missed this thread.....

That's okay.  There ain't no excuse for that guy.

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8 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

That's okay.  There ain't no excuse for that guy.

You don't think his Devine Revelations would've been able to enlighten us? Your so unfaithful! 😆 🤣

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15 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

You don't think his Devine Revelations would've been able to enlighten us? Your so unfaithful! 😆🤣

I had divine revelations of my own, when I was a christian, which ultimately failed to enlighten me.  If my own personal jesus failed, why does every apologist who comes here think theirs will succeed?  Such hubris.

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Though I've had a couple 'experiences' in my Christian life, they never really amounted to anything. The experiences did not make me a better person. They didnt reveal some deep truth that changed my life. 

 

I once came up with a clever phrase about Jesus that some travelling pastor happened to also say while doing his sermon. My family was like, "Whoa! He said what you said. It must be the Spirit!" Maybe I was set up (doubtful), maybe it was coincidence (likely), or maybe it was Jesus (doubtful). Well, if it was Jesus, is that the best he can do? A coincidence happens so I should become a bible scholar? I dont think so. 

 

Christians are happy to accept any scrap or minutiae to keep their belief going. 

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6 hours ago, midniterider said:

Though I've had a couple 'experiences' in my Christian life, they never really amounted to anything. The experiences did not make me a better person. They didnt reveal some deep truth that changed my life. 

 

I once came up with a clever phrase about Jesus that some travelling pastor happened to also say while doing his sermon. My family was like, "Whoa! He said what you said. It must be the Spirit!" Maybe I was set up (doubtful), maybe it was coincidence (likely), or maybe it was Jesus (doubtful). Well, if it was Jesus, is that the best he can do? A coincidence happens so I should become a bible scholar? I dont think so. 

 

Christians are happy to accept any scrap or minutiae to keep their belief going. 

Not just christians. My exp, people like to be devoted. At least some people. To communism. Lgbt. Nazi. Environmentalism. Anything. They like the devition to a perceived noble thing, cause. Logis is not the goal. It is that feeling of ecstasy. I habe the impression people become entangled in these things like they just brcome really into a song and start dancing. 

    It's an experience of pleasurable absorotion and self forgetting. Like soccer fans cheering.

 

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Yeah, I understand that people can become obsessed or fanatic about anything from religion to football to stamp collecting. 

 

But there's this specific thing Jesus told his followers, and we can see now it was clearly a lie. Sure, they can ignore it, they must ignore it, because the failure of the promise negates the whole thing, doesn't it?

 

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9 hours ago, midniterider said:

Christians are happy to accept any scrap or minutiae to keep their belief going.

 

Ain't that the truth! 

 

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Then there are the believers that do claim miracles, growing back body parts and even raising the dead. I promoted such a preacher for 9 years, fully believing him because his men also claimed to have seen and experienced these things. They seemed like genuine people. It wasn't until I caught him making up a long involved story (when I had hours of video showing otherwise) that I snapped out of it. I didn't understand why his men would fall in line with him when they knew it wasn't real, but then I recalled all the cults I'd studied over the years and how a charismatic leader's favor becomes super-important to the cult. And then in the last couple of years I also realized that their particular brand of Pentecostalism demands that belief be treated as real even when it hasn't manifested. To do otherwise is to give in to the devil. So the claims of raising the dead were just them treating belief as reality. They had other strange practices like having to eat their own vomit if they puked while eating something the local Indians served them, because it would offend the Indians otherwise. You can't eat puke and not puke again, so it was bizarre (and I witnessed it at a meeting where many of us had food poisoning). It's a cult, nothing more. Then again so is Christianity, just a popular one. 

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15 hours ago, midniterider said:

Though I've had a couple 'experiences' in my Christian life, they never really amounted to anything. The experiences did not make me a better person. They didnt reveal some deep truth that changed my life. 

 

I once came up with a clever phrase about Jesus that some travelling pastor happened to also say while doing his sermon. My family was like, "Whoa! He said what you said. It must be the Spirit!" Maybe I was set up (doubtful), maybe it was coincidence (likely), or maybe it was Jesus (doubtful). Well, if it was Jesus, is that the best he can do? A coincidence happens so I should become a bible scholar? I dont think so. 

 

Christians are happy to accept any scrap or minutiae to keep their belief going. 

 

Yep. And when all else fails they start making up their own flat earth science. 🤣🤣🤣 

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On 6/11/2021 at 1:08 PM, florduh said:

About those snakes... I always gave them credit for at least walking the walk and putting their life on the line for a belief. They're stupid, but still...

 

Yup, stupid! But willing to "walk the walk", and all that fun stuff...

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On 6/13/2021 at 8:25 PM, sdelsolray said:

...

The authors of the Abrahamic religions, for the most part, were writers of fantasy/fiction, pretenders, midrash addicts, perhaps grifters, none of whom would admit or reveal they were so.

 

You mean there was in fact no magic talking serpent?

I am truly surprised to know this.

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