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Edgarcito
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14 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Been to enough therapy Walter where I believe this to be immaturity.  Had you had sufficient intellect, you would have noticed that our assigning broken or unbroken, imbalanced or balanced, is truly whatever we wish to assign it given our lack of capability, given our lack of point of view.  Because you don't seemingly grasp this, your help is of no consequence.

 

Thank you

 

Ed

 

No, this is quite wrong.

 

In collective enterprises like language personal choice takes a back seat to collective agreement.  There are rules of language that are collectively agreed with and adhered to for the sake of better communication.  Personal points of view yield to collective agreement on the meaning of words and the internal logic of language.

 

Even though you will probably dispute this Ed, you have been abiding by these rules in this forum for years now.  

 

Words have specific meanings.  When in dialogue with others we do NOT assign these words with our own personal choices of what they mean without saying so.  Instead, we abide by the meanings and rules of how these meanings are to be applied.  This should be so obvious that I won't even bother citing examples to make my case.

 

Moving on to the specifics.

 

Something that is broken is not unbroken.  Something that is unbroken is not broken.  These are two mutually exclusive conditions that do not yield to personal choice.  The same rule applies with balanced and unbalanced.   Ditto with married and unmarried.  

 

Since you seem interested in the concepts of absolutes Ed, the meaning these words are absolute.

 

Sure, they can be understood in non-absolute ways, like metaphorically or symbolically.  But if you are going to do that then you need to make it abundantly clear that you are doing so.  Trying to sneak a non-absolute meaning in under the radar is disingenuous.  Doing that is trying to justify your case retrospectively.  

 

If you want to change these meanings and the rules under which these words operate in language then that's fine.  But you need to declare that you are doing this.  Pretending that this change is a normal and accepted part of communication is not ok.  You need to say that you are doing it.  

 

You are in communication with me and with other people in this thread, Edgarcito.

 

So, are you going to continue putting your own personal and subjective choices about words and meanings first or will you do as the rest of us do and abide by the rules of language for the sake of better communication?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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19 hours ago, WalterP said:

 

 

So, are you going to continue putting your own personal and subjective choices about words and meanings first or will you do as the rest of us do and abide by the rules of language for the sake of better communication?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

Bumped for Edgarcito's attention and answer.

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On 6/17/2021 at 8:09 AM, WalterP said:

 

Something that is broken is not unbroken.  Something that is unbroken is not broken.  These are two mutually exclusive conditions that do not yield to personal choice.  The same rule applies with balanced and unbalanced.   Ditto with married and unmarried.  

 

Since you seem interested in the concepts of absolutes Ed, the meaning these words are absolute.

 

Sure, they can be understood in non-absolute ways, like metaphorically or symbolically.  But if you are going to do that then you need to make it abundantly clear that you are doing so.  Trying to sneak a non-absolute meaning in under the radar is disingenuous.  Doing that is trying to justify your case retrospectively.  

 

If you want to change these meanings and the rules under which these words operate in language then that's fine.  But you need to declare that you are doing this.  Pretending that this change is a normal and accepted part of communication is not ok.  You need to say that you are doing it.  

 

You are in communication with me and with other people in this thread, Edgarcito.

 

So, are you going to continue putting your own personal and subjective choices about words and meanings first or will you do as the rest of us do and abide by the rules of language for the sake of better communication?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

I will attempt to use your advice.  Our best efforts at communication in my opinion shows respect and helps us understand each other better. 

 

From glancing at some of your responses in other threads, I gather you are a very knowledgeable person....which I appreciate on some level.  

 

In my mind, the constant dynamic nature of our world, and what I understand of outside our world, suggests a state always working towards balance.....which is not balanced but unbalanced.  

 

And to that point, ultimately labeling the processes as such is currently out of our capabilities.....on the large and small ends both.  

 

As an aside, what keeps popping into my mind are the descriptions people give after a near death experience....oneness, more colors.  For some reason my mind wants to associate balanced with these descriptions.

 

Thanks.   

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1 minute ago, Edgarcito said:

..I read the Prof's and Florduhs, and I swear they said "grand bastards"...lol.

Indeed we are; but @TABA is clearly the master debater. 

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

I will attempt to use your advice.  Our best efforts at communication in my opinion shows respect and helps us understand each other better. 

 

From glancing at some of your responses in other threads, I gather you are a very knowledgeable person....which I appreciate on some level.  

 

In my mind, the constant dynamic nature of our world, and what I understand of outside our world, suggests a state always working towards balance.....which is not balanced but unbalanced.  

 

And to that point, ultimately labeling the processes as such is currently out of our capabilities.....on the large and small ends both.  

 

As an aside, what keeps popping into my mind are the descriptions people give after a near death experience....oneness, more colors.  For some reason my mind wants to associate balanced with these descriptions.

 

Thanks.   

 

Thank you for this considered and thoughtful reply, Edgarcito.

 

I take your point about the limitations of our capabilities and agree with it.  Perhaps, whatever we say about the nature of reality, be it balanced or unbalanced, broken or unbroken, is likely to fall well short of being accurate - because of our limited capabilities.

 

The reason I persisted in pressing on the issue wasn't so much about what the true nature of reality but about the way you sought to change the meaning of your words retroactively, upon being challenged.  If someone points out a logic problem in your argument or a flaw in your reasoning, how are you going to gain any benefit from their input if you double down on the issue and **** around with the meaning of your words?

 

Wouldn't it be better to take it on the chin, learn from the experience and do better next time?

 

Edgarcito, I'm wouldn't ask you to do something that I haven't done myself, ok?  That would be totally improper.  So, here's an example of where I messed up, where someone put me right and where I thanked them for doing so.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/85496-semmelweis-reflex/?tab=comments#comment-1240814

 

If you take a look, midniterider spotted where I made a blunder about 'proof' and called me out on it.  When that happens I (metaphorically) sing and dance for joy.  It gives me the chance to learn and grow and do better next time.  It also gives me an opening to thank whoever helped me, thereby strengthening the bonds of camaraderie and trust within the forum.  

 

You say that ideas and thoughts keep popping into your head?  Well, that's great!  Keep doing that!  Sadly, all too many people go through their lives NOT thinking about anything much beyond what's for dinner tonight.  This puts you into the minority of those with imagination and creativity and the will to push themselves forward.

 

But please don't get downhearted or angry if most of these thoughts and ideas don't pan out.

 

This is where we (everyone here in Ex-C) can help each other out.  Bob over there might be stunningly imaginative, but he might need Alice's cool-headed logic to help him work through his new idea and see if it really does hold water.  If it doesn't, then try again and keep on trying.  

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

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