Let’s talk about death and why we don’t talk about death

[TABA]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:10 PM, Hierophant said:

 

I struggled with this same thing when I left Christianity. I found a book by James Warren called, "Facing Death - Epicures and his critics." It really helped me to come to some of the same conclusions you mentioned in the post.

 

Sounds like a good book but jeez it’s expensive!  $57.99 for the Kindle version, $65 for paperback.  
 

I do think Epicurus is a valuable source of wisdom for ex-Christians and others.  It can be found here and elsewhere:  
https://classicalwisdom.com/people/philosophers/epicurus-the-nature-of-death-and-the-purpose-of-life/

 

Epicureanism, like Stoicism, is undergoing somewhat of a revival as people leaving Christianity look elsewhere for wisdom.  Neither philosophy truly matches the common perceptions, of Stoicism as grim acceptance and Epicureanism as the eat-drink-and-be-merry approach.  They’re both well worth exploring. 

[TABA]

I came across this and picked up a digital copy.  It’s the second book by this author on Epicureanism and I’m looking forward to reading both.  
 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WRGSZ2D/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_K2JAPK2STTJY1KXRE6R7

 

[SeaJay]

On 9/6/2021 at 10:10 PM, Hierophant said:

I struggled with this same thing when I left Christianity. I found a book by James Warren called, "Facing Death - Epicures and his critics." It really helped me to come to some of the same conclusions you mentioned in the post. As others have said, it was realizing that I did not exist for billions of years before I came to being. It did not bother me then, why should I be bothered about it when I die. I am certain that I will probably have some level of fear when I am actually dying, if I am in a situation where I will know I am dying. Mostly because I have never done it before. The book addresses that as well; I found it really helpful.

Thank you for bringing that book to my attention.

[SeaJay]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:27 AM, TABA said:

I came across this and picked up a digital copy.  It’s the second book by this author on Epicureanism and I’m looking forward to reading both.  
 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WRGSZ2D/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_K2JAPK2STTJY1KXRE6R7

 

That's a book priced more in my league.

[alreadyGone]

On 7/31/2021 at 5:02 PM, webmdave said:

I don't anticipate experiencing any anxiety after death as I won't exist anymore the instant death occurs. 

 

In fact, I anticipate being troubled by an unconcious nonexistence following my death in much the same way as I was disturbed by an unconcious nonexistence before my birth. In other words, not at all. 

 

 

This is truth, reality and wisdom.

 

We humans have an instinct for self-preservation and survival, same as every other animal.

If it were otherwise, none of us would be here now to discuss it.

                

[Lost]

Hello Guys

 

In May 4th, 2021 I have already started officially my first nursing job at the hospital in Internal Diseases Department.

 

During every shift I deal with dying patients (90% elderly patients).

At least once a week or more someone dies.

 

That's what I've notieced is that someone who is going to die soon starts to breath heavily and needs lots of oxygen which not always helps.

 

Some people during dying process are surrounded by family, yet others die only among medical stuff alone.

 

Some patients call names of their loved ones before dying or ask weird questions and others pray.

 

When someone's die nurses wash their body and take it outside to cold place on hospital's balcony.

 

Greetings

 

 

 

[DanForsman]

It is natural for a human without very serious psychological issues to fear death. Maybe without this, suicide would look too attractive too often for us to make it as a species. Who knows, but I think the problem you have is focusing on things you have no control over. You fear death as you should so this is not a problem. You can't predict the exact moment or cause of your actual death so why mix this in with your health concerns. What if you eliminate this link between the two by aggressively pursuing whether medical science in it's present state finds that you have a real health problem(s) or whether it is that you are overreacting to minor common everyday pains and feelings. I'm sure you know that pushups and running are not the most effective ways to diagnose bodily sensations. Email you doctor with your concerns, all of your concerns so you can get an informed medical opinion. If you have reason to feel your doctor doesn't take your concerns seriously enough get another opinion(s) but resolve the issue(s) completely to your satisfaction. Isn't that honestly the best a person can do? Moving beyond is probably moving into hypochondria. You're not responsible for knowing tha death has made a surprise appearance on your doorstep. Being hyper sensitive to interpreting feedback from your body so as to somehow intervene before an organ failure causes your death shouldn't have any significant place in your thinking as a healthy human. Face your medical concerns directly and seriously but listen to what you hear from the best sources available and move on when you have the best answers and treatment (if necessary) you could reasonable expect to find. At some point you must make peace with the fact that you can't prevent death from staging a sneak attack.There are so many things that are completely or mostly in our control and wouldn't it be better to keep your focus on those things and take pride in dealing with those things while recognizing that very very much is not in our human control. Actually it's a relief once you accept that even though you are intelligent and can solve problems you have responsibility only when your actions can realistically effect the outcome.    

[SeaJay]

5 hours ago, DanForsman said:

It is natural for a human without very serious psychological issues to fear death. Maybe without this, suicide would look too attractive too often for us to make it as a species. Who knows, but I think the problem you have is focusing on things you have no control over. You fear death as you should so this is not a problem. You can't predict the exact moment or cause of your actual death so why mix this in with your health concerns. What if you eliminate this link between the two by aggressively pursuing whether medical science in it's present state finds that you have a real health problem(s) or whether it is that you are overreacting to minor common everyday pains and feelings. I'm sure you know that pushups and running are not the most effective ways to diagnose bodily sensations. Email you doctor with your concerns, all of your concerns so you can get an informed medical opinion. If you have reason to feel your doctor doesn't take your concerns seriously enough get another opinion(s) but resolve the issue(s) completely to your satisfaction. Isn't that honestly the best a person can do? Moving beyond is probably moving into hypochondria. You're not responsible for knowing tha death has made a surprise appearance on your doorstep. Being hyper sensitive to interpreting feedback from your body so as to somehow intervene before an organ failure causes your death shouldn't have any significant place in your thinking as a healthy human. Face your medical concerns directly and seriously but listen to what you hear from the best sources available and move on when you have the best answers and treatment (if necessary) you could reasonable expect to find. At some point you must make peace with the fact that you can't prevent death from staging a sneak attack.There are so many things that are completely or mostly in our control and wouldn't it be better to keep your focus on those things and take pride in dealing with those things while recognizing that very very much is not in our human control. Actually it's a relief once you accept that even though you are intelligent and can solve problems you have responsibility only when your actions can realistically effect the outcome.    

Wise words. Thank you for sharing.

[Sexton Blake]

Death is inevitable. People who have tried to avoid it, from Alexander the Great to Michael Jackson have ended up dying early.

 

Death is like going to sleep and not waking up again. How bad is that?

 

While I still have my health (not what it was) and my mind (still good) I am happy to carry on living and when my time comes,. my only regret will be not having more time to do the same old things I do now.

 

What I do dread is old age when getting about is a struggle, with extreme poverty (thanks Richy Sunak you rich b******), daily suffering pain, or knowing my memories are fading away.

 

It is all about quality of life.

 

 

[SeaJay]

On 12/12/2021 at 1:58 PM, Sexton Blake said:

Death is inevitable. People who have tried to avoid it, from Alexander the Great to Michael Jackson have ended up dying early.

 

Death is like going to sleep and not waking up again. How bad is that?

 

While I still have my health (not what it was) and my mind (still good) I am happy to carry on living and when my time comes,. my only regret will be not having more time to do the same old things I do now.

 

What I do dread is old age when getting about is a struggle, with extreme poverty (thanks Richy Sunak you rich b******), daily suffering pain, or knowing my memories are fading away.

 

It is all about quality of life.

I agree. It's about quality as well as quantity. We are discussing my fear of dying (not death, but the process of actually dying at that moment) in therapy. It turns out it is a major issue for me. I guess it's a major issue for most people, but it seems to be especially bad for me. We're trying to work on me accepting dying, at least as much as trying to work out why I find it so debilitating.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@SeaJay, dude, I'm glad you're in counseling.  I hope you'll get a lot of your issues unenfuckinated.

[Sexton Blake]

I am sorry to hear it.

 

I am getting on in years now and am not as fit as I once was, and a month ago, arthritis suddenly appeared. It is only there when I wake up and quickly goes away and I hope it does not get worse.

 

I also have a bit of a shake in my left hand, which thankfully is not Parkinson's. I could get it checked out at the hospital but that is presently the easiest way to catch Covid 19.

 

I think we have to make do with the unknown amount of time ahead of us and enjoy it the best we can. Whether you believe there is an Afterlife or not, this is our one chance at this life.

 

As the old saying goes: "Treat every day like your last, because one day you will be right."

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Talk to a Hospice worker.  I think you will find that people at deaths door are not in a panic, be they believers or not.  Some of them actually welcome it, especially those who have had a near death experience.

[Sexton Blake]

What the bible has to sat on death:

 

Genesis 3:22. Adam and Eve should not have access to the tree of life and so become immortal like “us”.

 

1Timothy 6:13-16. Only god is immortal.

 

Ezekiel 18:4 Souls can die.

 

John 11:11-14 Death is like a sleep.

 

Psalm 146:6 and Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10  The dead do not think, don’t know anything and do not have emotions.

 

Ecclersiastes 3: 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

 

3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

 

 

Ecclesiastes 12:7  When death occurs the body goes back to dust and the breath of life goes back to god.

 

Job 7:9,10 14:12  The dead cannot come back.