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Vaccine awareness 😉


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On 11/8/2021 at 3:15 PM, DarkBishop said:

 

I feel like only losing 5.4 million in a pandemic with a population of close to 7 billion is pretty good

 

16 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

But with a death rate of less than 1 percent of the population. That's just not enough death for me to support taking away peoples freedom to not have a needle put in their arm and be injected against their will.

 

Good for you for following the science and getting vaccinated. The vaccines reduce the chance of contracting the disease, but more importantly they reduce the chance of hospitalization and death.

 

16 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

If it were as bad as the 1918 flu. And 10 percent of the infected population were dying . . . . .That'd probably be enough. 

So you'd need to know that the covid death rate is about five times what its been (or about 25 million people) before you could see any sense in mandating a vaccine that's proven to be very effective.  Thats some pretty cold numbers there.

Of course this is not the first vaccine to be mandated. I could not work anywhere without having MMR vaccine, for example.

16 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Yall wanna force people to give up their rights.

I never said that. I don't really care for mandation either. I just wish people would do the logical thing. I served on a task force to educate people about the vaccine. I genuinely wanted to know why people didnt want it. The most popular answer was "I dont want the government telling me what to do."

 

17 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

could you imagine how bad the front line workers had it 100 years ago with one in every ten people dying? If you could hear some of their stories ya might think..... well this wasn't that bad.

And lets not have history repeat itself. Scientists and health experts are trying to prevent mass casualties.

 

16 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

It does not affect me personally.

^^This was the other reason people didn't want the vaccine.

Unfortunately, I can't say that. Virtually all covid admissions are unvaccinated.

Personal rights are extremely important to me too, but they are not necessarily above all else.

 

This is an exhausting topic for me, so with all due respect, I need to bow out. If you would like the last word,  feel free. 🙂

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, freshstart said:

So you'd need to know that the covid death rate is about five times what its been (or about 25 million people) before you could see any sense in mandating a vaccine that's proven to be very effective.  Thats some pretty cold numbers there.

Of course this is not the first vaccine to be mandated. I could not work anywhere without having MMR vaccine, for example.

 

Eh I enjoy debating stuff like this I suppose. Don't take offense please. I do respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine. This is why we vote at the polls. My opinion may not be the right one. Maybe we should make everyone get it. But I think when we do stuff like that,  forcing people against their will.  I feel like we chip away at America's foundation a little more each time. I really hate it when that happens.

 

It has been chaos it seems most my life. With all the wedge issues that seem to be unending. One gets squashed and they find something else to bicker about. I wonder if the country has always been divided 50/50 like it is now. Or if it has just been in recent years..... and of course during the Civil war? I suppose politics were pretty bad then too. 

 

Anyway back to the subject. It was 50 million in 1918. To be equivalent to the 1918 pandemic it would be about 250 million. If it was getting that high it would be worth forcing it on people who would otherwise not want it. 

 

Yes I know. You probably think that's pretty fucked up. But more than likely you would have almost zero vaccine resistance if it was that bad anyway. So we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 

 

49 minutes ago, freshstart said:

The most popular answer was "I dont want the government telling me what to do."

 

That is a legitimate reason. A lot of Americans don't like to feel forced to do something. If they never mentioned mandates but worked an incentive in the last stimulus. Say 500 bucks if you got the vaccine. America would probably be 90 percent vaccinated by now. 

 

You know. Catching more flies with honey and all. 

 

54 minutes ago, freshstart said:

never said that. I don't really care for mandation either. I just wish people would do the logical thing.

 

This is where I'm at. I really do wish people would get it. I've talked to my parents, I've talked to my friends, (some have now been vaccinated), and I posted a couple lengthy posts on FB trying to urge people to get it. Whether that had any affect or not I don't know. 

 

I just draw a very deep line at forcing people. 

 

I appreciate yours and @mwc input on this thread @freshstart. I know I'm at odds with yalls opinion. That's OK. We are adults and have all lived different lives in different cultures, that makes us who we are and gives us our values. I think that is actually a pretty awesome thing. Its nice getting different perspectives from other areas of the country and world. Even those kiwis 🥝 over in New Zealand. (If he sees this he'll know who I'm talking about 😀)

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20 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Even those kiwis 🥝 over in New Zealand. (If he sees this he'll know who I'm talking about 😀)

 

I have no idea who the afore mentioned (kiwi) fruit is :D 

 

You do of course know that kiwi refers to the bird not the fruit? Unless its a combination - you know like creationists think a dog can give birth to a cat? (The 'crocaduck' argument)

 

Kiwi-fruit.jpeg

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  • 2 months later...

Well the vaccine is not doing so great against the omicron variant. 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-vaccine-study-finds-people-103152468.html

 

Still helps with hospitalizations and deaths. But not so much on catching it. Even with a fourth dose. Now they are considering a new vaccine. Hmmmm....... how about that. And just for the record. Yes I will get the new vaccine if they make one. 

 

I think the second run will probably be better than the first. 

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Yes, the main benefit at this point is reducing hospitalisations and severity of infection.

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Going for my booster next week. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/24/2022 at 9:05 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

Going for my booster next week. 

I got another month I think. Need to look at my card. Nobody really gives a shit whether you've been vaccinated or not around here. Bet my lead at work is wishing he had took it now tho. Been out for two weeks now. Hope he's getting better. Need to give him a call tonight. 

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Right I've had my booster. After 24 hours it felt like someone had been beating me with a pool noodle all night - not particularly painful, but it was wearing. All fine by about 30 hours.

 

Oh, the 15G reception is unbelievable! I can hear voices from the other side of the world now! :D 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anybody here listened to the Joe Rogan, Dr. Robert Malone podcast? You know, the main one they're trying to cancel him for.

 

This podcast answers a lot of the questions left unanswered within this thread (yes, I read the whole thing).

 

Thought it might be a good contribution to the discussion. 

 

https://podtail.com/podcast/the-joe-rogan-experience/-1757-dr-robert-malone-md/

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Fwee!!!!

 

Where have you been man!!?

 

Good to hear from you!

Dont be a stranger!!

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2 minutes ago, TABA said:

Fwee!!!!

 

Where have you been man!!?

 

Good to hear from you!

Dont be a stranger!!

I've been gettin' by. Working. Sleeping. You know -- the stuff aging people do.

 

I just happened to come by here last night looking to see what sort of opinions were floating around here about the virus/mandate stuff. This thread appears to be the only one I could find.

 

There's a lot of good questions raised here about that stuff. Questions that actually have answers to them if one is willing to dig around.

 

As I was reading the thread, I'd come across some that I have answers for, but I didn't want to post anything without sources. So I just kept reading and reeeeeadiiiing.

 

Once I made it through, it occurred to me that the Dr. Malone podcast was a good addition here so -- here we are. An interview with one of the people that actually developed the MRNA stuff going in the injections. Hard to argue that source.

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This was put out today. It sure is taking them long enough to catch on to this stuff. 

 

What can we do about animals getting and spreading the disease? Mask them? Vaccinate them knowing they can still catch and spread it afterwards? 

 

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/illinois-coronavirus-updates-pets-and-covid-mask-mandate-latest/2762391/

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I think there is growing awareness that it won't be eradicated, but we are in a sort of disorderly control decent into it being endemic. If we can keep the health systems afloat while the initial years surges go through then hopefully we will be ok. If not and surges keep coming we will have to up our hospital numbers and medical staff, or just shrug and let people die.

 

As to what to do about animals? Not sure. It's likely that it came from animals so not surprising that it spreads through them.

 

A lot of unknowns really.

 

What we do know is the vaccines do help reduce transmission, and do reduce severity and hospitalisation. We also know lockdowns are effective at control but hurt the economy so there is a tradeoff between total lives saved vs essentially lives hurt by a spluttering economy. (If we are using the same metric of human wellbeing) 

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On 2/16/2022 at 5:13 PM, Fweethawt said:

Once I made it through, it occurred to me that the Dr. Malone podcast was a good addition here so -- here we are. An interview with one of the people that actually developed the MRNA stuff going in the injections. Hard to argue that source.

     He worked on papers, with others, in the late 80's, early 90's, that showed you could inject mRNA into cells using lipids and this could trigger new proteins.  Beyond that it doesn't appear he worked on this problem much at all.  This would have have been the very first step in the entire process and there were a lot of other problems to solve to make an actual vaccine delivery system out of it.  So while it was an important contribution for which he deserves recognition along with all the rest who worked on those papers, in that it was the first step, it doesn't make him an expert in the entire process in which he was not involved.

 

          mwc

 

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On 2/18/2022 at 2:21 PM, mwc said:

     He worked on papers, with others, in the late 80's, early 90's, that showed you could inject mRNA into cells using lipids and this could trigger new proteins.  Beyond that it doesn't appear he worked on this problem much at all.  This would have have been the very first step in the entire process and there were a lot of other problems to solve to make an actual vaccine delivery system out of it.  So while it was an important contribution for which he deserves recognition along with all the rest who worked on those papers, in that it was the first step, it doesn't make him an expert in the entire process in which he was not involved.

 

          mwc

 

I wasn't aware he had such a minimal input on the matter. Otherwise, I too would discount everything he's trying to tell people about it nowadays.

 

Next question.

 

Anyone with any opinions on America's Frontline Doctors?

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20 hours ago, Fweethawt said:

I wasn't aware he had such a minimal input on the matter. Otherwise, I too would discount everything he's trying to tell people about it nowadays.

 

Next question.

 

Anyone with any opinions on America's Frontline Doctors?

 

     Look, I was trying to be fair to the man.  Here you go:

h8dkssrm6qa81.jpg

     If you have information that places him in all those other categories I like to see it but at this point he made that one contribution and that one contribution is not the actual mRNA vaccine but comes prior to it. 

 

     Am I arguing that I know more about this subject than he does?  Nope.  I am saying he may not know as much as others on the list as he purports since he wasn't involved in those things (like I stated).

 

     And he was leaning hard into the whole Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquine  (sp?) combo early in the pandemic but the mRNA vaccines won out.  Now it's sour grapes time.  

 

          mwc

 

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I'm didn't get the injection. My wife did and my live-in mother in-law did not. Both of them got covid at the same time. My wife was in the worst shape I've ever seen. I thought for sure she wasn't going to make it. If her oxygen would've dropped below a certain level, she would've had to go to the hospital where they would've (probably) given her remdezavir which would've led to her being put on a respirator and died like a lot of people have following that particular protocol. 

 

I was in my small house taking care of both of them for over two weeks. Within that period of time, I "tested" a total of 4 tines and each time it was negative. I had no symptoms, either.

 

Fast forward to two weeks into December, I get sick. The symptoms had me thinking I was going crazy. Pretty sure it had to do with inflammation in my brain. I couldn't think very well, talk very well, lost my smell and taste and had to take showers in stages because the effort to do it made me feel like I was passing out.

 

A friend of mine set me up with enough ivermectin for a full 5 days of treatment. That, along with the protocol from the Frontline Doctors, in my opinion, is what cured me and maybe even saved my life.

 

Within 24 hours of my first dose and vitamins (as instructed by the protocol), my sense of smell and taste returned and I was able to speak again in unbroken sentences. 

 

Everyone I know that has taken the advice of the Frontline Doctor protocol has similar stories that have all ended very well.

 

The mrna "won out" over the ivermectin and hydroxycloroquin not because it's more effective or safer. It won out because there's more money to be made than there is selling ivermectin and the other.

 

A friend of mine was out of work for a hernia operation. After the operation he got injected. Shortly thereafter he had a heart attack. Once recovered from that, he got his so-called booster (which we know now is just the same stuff given again AND when a new variant comes out). After his booster, shortly thereafter he had a stroke. Now he isn't coordinated enough to text or speak correctly. Stories like his have been popping up all over the more people got injected. Same with young athletes dropping on the fields much more often. Then there's the myocarditis that seems to be everywhere now, too. Info slowly coming out that it's injection related.

 

I wish I'd known more about the Frontline protocol earlier on. I probably could've saved a friend.

 

I'm surprised the conversation in this thread hasn't lead to talking about those safer methods of treatment rather than why those safer methods have been banned and aren't even suggested by doctor's that should know better.

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21 hours ago, Fweethawt said:

I'm didn't get the injection. My wife did and my live-in mother in-law did not. Both of them got covid at the same time. My wife was in the worst shape I've ever seen. I thought for sure she wasn't going to make it. If her oxygen would've dropped below a certain level, she would've had to go to the hospital where they would've (probably) given her remdezavir which would've led to her being put on a respirator and died like a lot of people have following that particular protocol. 

 

I was in my small house taking care of both of them for over two weeks. Within that period of time, I "tested" a total of 4 tines and each time it was negative. I had no symptoms, either.

 

Fast forward to two weeks into December, I get sick. The symptoms had me thinking I was going crazy. Pretty sure it had to do with inflammation in my brain. I couldn't think very well, talk very well, lost my smell and taste and had to take showers in stages because the effort to do it made me feel like I was passing out.

 

A friend of mine set me up with enough ivermectin for a full 5 days of treatment. That, along with the protocol from the Frontline Doctors, in my opinion, is what cured me and maybe even saved my life.

 

Within 24 hours of my first dose and vitamins (as instructed by the protocol), my sense of smell and taste returned and I was able to speak again in unbroken sentences. 

 

Everyone I know that has taken the advice of the Frontline Doctor protocol has similar stories that have all ended very well.

 

The mrna "won out" over the ivermectin and hydroxycloroquin not because it's more effective or safer. It won out because there's more money to be made than there is selling ivermectin and the other.

 

A friend of mine was out of work for a hernia operation. After the operation he got injected. Shortly thereafter he had a heart attack. Once recovered from that, he got his so-called booster (which we know now is just the same stuff given again AND when a new variant comes out). After his booster, shortly thereafter he had a stroke. Now he isn't coordinated enough to text or speak correctly. Stories like his have been popping up all over the more people got injected. Same with young athletes dropping on the fields much more often. Then there's the myocarditis that seems to be everywhere now, too. Info slowly coming out that it's injection related.

 

I wish I'd known more about the Frontline protocol earlier on. I probably could've saved a friend.

 

I'm surprised the conversation in this thread hasn't lead to talking about those safer methods of treatment rather than why those safer methods have been banned and aren't even suggested by doctor's that should know better.

     Nice anecdote.  Now tell me how jesus saves too.  Do all this without any actual data to back you up.

 

Quote

Furthermore, he says, many of the ivermectin studies have design flaws that preclude them from leading to changes in clinical practice. A report published in July by Cochrane, a highly regarded independent organization that reviews medical research and helps guide clinical practice, looked at dozens of studies on ivermectin, of which only 14 qualified for evaluation. The report excluded 38 investigations because of problems with their methodology: they either had no control group, an inappropriate control group or other kinds of biases. The 14 remaining studies, which included a total of 1,678 participants, did not support the use of ivermectin for preventing or treating COVID, the report concluded.

 

In contrast with ivermectin, the evidence of COVID vaccines’ effectiveness is “incredibly compelling,” Griffin says, and the majority of COVID deaths and hospitalizations are vaccine-preventable.

Scientific American

 

          mwc

 

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Basically my general rule is if its on Joe Rogan's podcast treat it with a healthy dose of skepticism. Joe doesn't doesn't tend to really dig in and ask hard questions, he simply agrees a lot of the time. But hey, he's an entertainer not a research scientist.

 

Fwee I've heard multiple stories of people getting vaccinated and the rest of the family didn't. The family ended up in hospital while the person vaccinated only had mild symptoms.

 

The problem with both our stories is they are anecdotal. The data on the other hand overwhelming shows that severity and hospitalization rates are reduced for vaccinated people.

 

 

(On a side note, here in NZ we are 95% vaccinated so the vast majority of people getting covid are vaccinated due to population numbers and breakthrough rates which leads to the mind numbing cry of "More vaccinated people are getting covid than unvaxxed". Yes dear, but please learn to to do population statistics.)

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1 hour ago, Fweethawt said:

     The main research they post on that page may have an issue with two of its primary sources.  The editors of the journal have issued an Expression of Concern over it.  They post the issue in a (hard for me to read) PDF but it goes something like:

Quote

The exclusion of suspicious data appears to invalidate the findings regarding the ivermectin's use to decrease the mortality of COVID-19 infection.  The investigation of these allegations is incomplete and inconclusive at this time.

     So, I think I might stick with all the (many) studies that show ivermectin is ineffective and that vaccines (especially when coupled with proper, and I must emphasize proper, masking and social distancing techniques), instead of what appears to be a flawed meta-study.

 

EDIT: And after I typed all that I found this place.  RetractionWatch.  It talks about this exact thing with more details.

 

          mwc

 

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19 hours ago, mwc said:

So, I think I might stick with all the (many) studies that show ivermectin is ineffective and that vaccines (especially when coupled with proper, and I must emphasize proper, masking and social distancing techniques), instead of what appears to be a flawed meta-study.

 

But which studies are flawed and which ones are saturated with confirmation bias or data manipulation? 

 

Not sure how the crowd here feels about the Epoch Times as a news source. But they just put this out today pertaining to the information that the CDC is allowing to be put out about vaccine stats.

 

If the CDC was found to be doing this, how can anyone be so sure any of their previous information and instructions have any legitimate ground?

 

Regardless of your opinion of them (Epoch Times), this is still a good listen. Also, if you watch this, watch past the plug for (I think) a VPN service or whatever. There's more after that about children. 

 

The CDC not only changed the definition of the word vaccine this year to more closely match their less than hoped for results with the injections, but now they've even dropped the speech standards for child development due to the declining results seen in children due to masking. This video shows they've manipulated the data to show the injection is doing better than it is.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Fweethawt said:

 

But which studies are flawed and which ones are saturated with confirmation bias or data manipulation? 

     Well, the study you posted is apparently flawed (data manipulation) and may also be guilty of confirmation bias.  So, that one?

 

3 minutes ago, Fweethawt said:

 

Not sure how the crowd here feels about the Epoch Times as a news source. But they just put this out today pertaining to the information that the CDC is allowing to be put out about vaccine stats.

 

If the CDC was found to be doing this, how can anyone be so sure any of their previous information and instructions have any legitimate ground?

 

Regardless of your opinion of them (Epoch Times), this is still a good listen. Also, if you watch this, watch past the plug for (I think) a VPN service or whatever. There's more after that about children. 

 

The CDC not only changed the definition of the word vaccine this year to more closely match their less than hoped for results with the injections, but now they've even dropped the speech standards for child development due to the declining results seen in children due to masking. This video shows they've manipulated the data to show the injection is doing better than it is.

 

 

Quote

The Epoch Times is a far-right[16] international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement.[22] The newspaper, based in New York City, is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty (NTD) Television.[23]The Epoch Times has websites in 35 countries but is blocked in mainland China.[24]

 

The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party,[25][26] promotes far-right politicians in Europe,[4][6] and has championed President Donald Trump in the U.S.;[27] a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[23][28][29] The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccine misinformation,[32] and false claims of election fraud in the 2020 United States presidential election.[36] In 2020, The New York Times called it a "global-scale misinformation machine".[27]The Epoch Times frequently promotes other Falun Gong-affiliated groups, such as the performing arts company Shen Yun.[18][37][27]

     They don't look too good.  How about that religion?

Quote

Falun Gong's founder, Li Hongzhi, has stated that he believes space aliens walk the Earth, and that modern science and race-mixing are part of their ploy to overtake humanity, and he has reportedly said that he can walk through walls and make himself invisible. Li says that he is a being who has come to help humankind from the destruction it could face as the result of rampant evil. When asked if he was a human being, Li replied "You can think of me as a human being."[19][45][46]

     Hmmm.  Looks legit.

 

     I'd say taken altogether this is a huge steaming pile.  Sure, they oppose the Chinese Commie Party but probably only because they wound up on their bad side because it seems like prior to that happening they didn't say shit about them.  And I'm not willing to throw in with them on that single issue considering how totally insane they are on everything else.  Be like going all in with Hitler because he liked dogs and turning a blind-eye to the rest of the crazy shit.

 

          mwc

 

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     A short article that speaks in general to good research.

research.com

 

          mwc

 

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  • 5 months later...

Well I have covid again. I will say I did not get the booster back in March when I was supposed to. But I did get the two shots last year. The symptoms have been slightly less severe but I have no way to know whether it is because of the vaccine or if its a weaker variant. 

 

According to the CDC the efficacy of the vaccines is much lower than the original specs. I kinda expect it to get lower in the next year as more data comes in. If it holds then good. But we'll see I guess. 

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