Is there a reason salvation by faith isn't a disaster?

[Wertbag]

I heard it mentioned that if you believe that salvation is purely by faith in Christ, and works don't matter, then someone like Hitler would be in heaven while the millions of Jews he had killed would be sent to hell.  Or another example was Jeffery Dahmer, the serial killer who took gay men back to his apartment and butchered them.  Jeff found Jesus while he was in prison, so by faith alone he would now be heaven bound, while the gay and mostly non-believing victims would be sent to hell.

Even if a merciful god allows the victims into heaven, wouldn't spending eternity with the guy who murdered and ate you completely ruin the afterlife for you?

 

Is there an apologetic answer to this issue?  Or biblical reason to invoke works when those works are horrific?  I can't see how justice can be given if works aren't taken into account?

[♦ Fuego ♦]

It's an age old question in the church, and spawned responses like the book of James that sought to balance things. It was pretty clear from the gospels that John the Baptist and Jesus both emphasized actions as demonstrations of change, while Jesus also pointed out that it wasn't just giving that was important but intention and, for a lack of a better term sacrificial cost to the giver (the widow's mite vs the rich donating from their excess). So it was never intended to be a doctrine that good deeds are useless, just that they need to come from compassion and honesty instead of just because a law required it (because that fosters looking into minutiae of rules to find loopholes instead of motivating empathy and compassion). Both Jesus and John the Baptist would have required serious demonstration of change, not just a declaration of belief. John the Baptist specifically called this out when he told the crowd that they weren't the "in crowd" just because they were descended from Abraham, but had to show  in their behavior. Believers think they are the "in crowd" because of belief. Jesus calls this out in the last judgment when he says they will tell him "Didn't we do this and that, and even do miracles in your name?" And he tells them, "I was hungry and thirsty, you didn't feed me. I was sick and lonely, you didn't want to deal with me and I died alone. I was an immigrant and you poured out hatred instead of welcoming me and helping me and my family. I never knew you, depart from me..." 

 

So in a twisted way, the "belief trumps all" approach is just as toxic since it leads to clearly unjust outcomes like the ones you mentioned. Indoctrinated believers would still argue that if the faith were real, then it is a glorious demonstration of mercy (though the entire concept of a petulant god demanding blood and taking it from his kid to satisfy his narcissistic tantrum is enough to make a reasonable person recoil in horror). 

 

People get attracted to the concepts of empathy, generosity, and magic miracles, and are bait-and-switched into religion in groveling service to a bloodthirsty psychopath. I now take the aspects of kindness and empathy as the baseline of what makes humanity good, and life better for everyone. No religion is needed, just that. "Do this and it is enough".

[Myrkhoos]

There is a mistake we often make when judging belief systems - that us judging them by our beliefs only. It that thing "just" means you already have a standard of justice which may or may not be part if the belief system you are looking at. 

    A faith only system could reply that "justice" is a divine decree so anything God does is just by default. There is no outside "standard" upon which to judge God. A divine command theory of justice. 

    In Orthodoxy "faith" has a very quirky definition in many texts. Not just trust but a sort of direct connecting energy towards God ( from a sermon from the sitting Romanian Patriarch). I venture to say that most ideas in Christianity have different explanations in Orthodox East. With other issues, but still. This direct connecting energy to the divine through divine grace is both the power to do good deeds, and is strengtened by good deeds. And Paul himself says this when he says that people have the Law inside them and act accordingly.

 

Also there is a difference to be made between Gospel good and fallen nature good. Orthodox mystical theology is pretty interesting on a purely intelectual/ literary level :).

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Yes, defining terms is critical in understanding. I think the 4-step salvation by faith peddled by most American campus preachers is a shallow formula only based on the new testament. They are far more interested in converting and conformity, which is a shallow substitute for transformation of being.