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Goodbye Jesus

God is Real


AustinAustin

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1 minute ago, AustinAustin said:

 

Just share the pertinent information, please.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/universe-had-no-beginning-time

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1 hour ago, AustinAustin said:

God has given you proof... and I will be happy to show you more of it than you knew existed, if you would like? 

So Austin, this is the real reason you are here?  You believe you hold evidence that we are unaware of and which has never previously been shared here before?  Take another look at what you've written. Doesn't that seem rather prideful, maybe a little arrogant?  What makes you think you are unique from every other Christian who has been to this site to share what they believed to be revelations?  Do you believe you hold special knowledge that is unique and different from most - if not all - other Christians?  If so, you have to understand that such beliefs tend to border on the edge of delusional.  By delusional, I mean "having a break with reality."  This is not really about you being a Christian.  It seems like delusional thinking to me, because you hold the genuine belief that you are one of the very few special Christians who understand "The Truth."  Its not much different from a person on the street who believes they are god. 

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5 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

God is calling you to life while theres still time...

Please don't feel personally liable for trying to "save" us. We know that we don't need salvation, but we remember what it was like to be in your shoes and how dreadful it was to imagine that our words and actions might influence the eternal lives of others. (One of the many terrible things that Biblical beliefs inflict upon the mind/emotions). I can't speak for everybody, but I'd like to think that we all absolve you of any responsibility here in trying to change our minds. I hope that gives you some peace.

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21 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

God is calling you to life while theres still time...


AA, welcome to our community and especially to The Lions Den.  While I understand your desire to spread the “good news” among heathens I would encourage you to temper your expectations severely.  You will find no “lazy atheists” here: we did not come to reject Christianity lightly and will certainly not be impressed by faith-based or presuppositionalist arguments.  We regard religious faith as a vehicle for falsehoods, not truth.   That said, we do welcome the opportunity to engage with Christian visitors, so - Welcome among us!

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5 minutes ago, TABA said:


AA, welcome to our community and especially to The Lions Den.  While I understand your desire to spread the “good news” among heathens I would encourage you to temper your expectations severely.  You will find no “lazy atheists” here: we did not come to reject Christianity lightly and will certainly not be impressed by faith-based or presuppositionalist arguments.  We regard religious faith as a vehicle for falsehoods, not truth.   That said, we do welcome the opportunity to engage with Christian visitors, so - Welcome among us!

Thank you very much.

 

Why did you leave God?

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34 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I'm sorry I don't click links, please, write the information that is relevant.

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Here again, if logic were an absolute, and could be absolutely employed, humanity would be perfect enough as to obviate the existence of a god, and certainly the christian god who is apparently calling us to life while there's still time...

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1 minute ago, AustinAustin said:

I'm sorry I don't click links, please, write the information that is relevant.

No.

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22 minutes ago, freshstart said:

Please don't feel personally liable for trying to "save" us. We know that we don't need salvation, but we remember what it was like to be in your shoes and how dreadful it was to imagine that our words and actions might influence the eternal lives of others. (One of the many terrible things that Biblical beliefs inflict upon the mind/emotions). I can't speak for everybody, but I'd like to think that we all absolve you of any responsibility here in trying to change our minds. I hope that gives you some peace.

 

120959581_1571960689671894_2888377060074764719_n.jpg

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42 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

Thank you very much.

 

Why did you leave God?


I came to the conclusion that “God” very likely does not exist. In a nutshell, I came to believe that the way the world works suggests strongly that there is no deity “running the show” or involving itself with human beings.  I can’t be certain no “superior intelligence” exists, so I call myself an agnostic atheist, as do most of us here.  It’s likely that the closest thing to a deity is the existence of the laws of physics, which of course do not concern themselves with you or me one iota. 

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8 minutes ago, TABA said:


I came to the conclusion that “God” very likely does not exist. In a nutshell, I came to believe that the way the world works suggests strongly that there is no deity “running the show” or involving itself with human beings.  I can’t be certain no “superior intelligence” exists, so I call myself an agnostic atheist, as do most of us here.  It’s likely that the closest thing to a deity is the existence of the laws of physics, which of course do not concern themselves with you or me one iota. 

Why should there be an absolute standard of reasoning if everything is simply “molecules in motion”? Most atheists have a materialistic outlook—meaning they believe that everything that exists is material, or explained by material processes. But laws of logic are not material! If atheistic materialism is true, then there could be no laws of logic, since they are immaterial. Thus, logical reasoning would be impossible! if atheism were true, the atheist would not be able to reason or use laws of logic because such things would not be meaningful. How could there be laws at all without a lawgiver? Laws of logic owe their existence to the biblical God. Yet they are required to reason rationally, to prove things. So the biblical God must exist in order for reasoning to be possible. Therefore, the best proof of God’s existence is that without Him we couldn’t prove anything at all! The existence of the biblical God is the prerequisite for knowledge and rationality. 

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I read your original post already.  Kindly do not keep copying and pasting it.  

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Austin,

I suspect you are very young... age 30 or younger.

Am I correct?

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15 minutes ago, TABA said:

I read your original post already.  Kindly do not keep copying and pasting it.  

Thank you. Can you refute?

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12 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

Austin,

I suspect you are very young... age 30 or younger.

Am I correct?

38

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1 hour ago, AustinAustin said:

 

Why should there be an absolute standard of reasoning if everything is simply “molecules in motion”? Most atheists have a materialistic outlook—meaning they believe that everything that exists is material, or explained by material processes. But laws of logic are not material! If atheistic materialism is true, then there could be no laws of logic, since they are immaterial. Thus, logical reasoning would be impossible! if atheism were true, the atheist would not be able to reason or use laws of logic because such things would not be meaningful. How could there be laws at all without a lawgiver? Laws of logic owe their existence to the biblical God. Yet they are required to reason rationally, to prove things. So the biblical God must exist in order for reasoning to be possible. Therefore, the best proof of God’s existence is that without Him we couldn’t prove anything at all! The existence of the biblical God is the prerequisite for knowledge and rationality.
 

 

Of course the above is simply your opinion, which of course you are totally entitled to. But my opinion as an atheist is very different form yours.

 

Your quote:  "How could there be laws at all without a lawgiver? Laws of logic owe their existence to the biblical God. Yet they are required to reason rationally, to prove things. So the biblical God must exist in order for reasoning to be possible. Therefore, the best proof of God’s existence is that without Him we couldn’t prove anything at all! The existence of the biblical God is the prerequisite for knowledge and rationality."

 

What are called "laws of nature" simply means that's the way nature almost always behaves. And there are no "laws of logic," just methods based upon accepted definitions and standards. Their are no absolutes or "real" laws involved. "Reasoning" is a method of human thought processing that does not involve God, according to dictionary definitions of it.

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/reasoning

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777466/

 

http://www.csun.edu/science/ref/reasoning/deductive_reasoning/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

Thank you. Can you refute?


I am not a materialist by your definition.  The laws of physics, for example, are quite real and appear to apply throughout our universe, but they are not material.  The theory that the laws of physics “just exist” and do not require a creator is just as plausible as your belief that God “just exists” and did not have to be created.  The ability to reason does not require a creator any more than the fundamental forces of our universe require a creator.  
 

You cannot prove, neither can I disprove, the existence of a deity responsible for all that exists.  However I find it very easy to reject the idea that an omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient deity exists.  

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10 minutes ago, pantheory said:

 

Of course the above is simply your opinion, which of course you are totally entitled to. But my opinion as an atheist is very different form yours.

 

Your quote:  "How could there be laws at all without a lawgiver? Laws of logic owe their existence to the biblical God. Yet they are required to reason rationally, to prove things. So the biblical God must exist in order for reasoning to be possible. Therefore, the best proof of God’s existence is that without Him we couldn’t prove anything at all! The existence of the biblical God is the prerequisite for knowledge and rationality."

 

What are called "laws of nature" simply means that's the way nature almost always behaves. And there are no "laws of logic," just methods based upon accepted definitions and standards. Their are no absolutes or "real" laws involved. "Reasoning" is a method of human thought processing that does not involve God, according to dictionary definitions of it.

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/reasoning

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777466/

 

http://www.csun.edu/science/ref/reasoning/deductive_reasoning/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logic is the absolute standard of reason.

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Austin,

I do not assert that "everything is material" as you suggest.

 

I have at times here asked the question, "what objective proof is there that any spirit exists anywhere?".

 

Where is there proof of the existence of any human spirit? Where is there proof of any supreme being, angel, or demon?

 

Many people, I believe most people in fact, both Christians and non-believers and even many atheists assume the existence of a human spirit. But how can we know there is such a thing?

Why would we believe in the existence of any human spirit, except that it makes us feel good to believe it?

 

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1 hour ago, AustinAustin said:

Logic is the absolute standard of reason.

 

You could say logic is the accepted standard for reasoning, but the word absolute is out of place here unless you can show me a standard definition which includes the word "absolute." 

 

But you have made your point above, so this quote seems out-of-place, unless you have an additional point to make based upon the word absolute and your assertion that "God" is involved with human logic. Of course you have the right to believe this.

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6 minutes ago, TABA said:


I am not a materialist by your definition.  The laws of physics, for example, are quite real and appear to apply throughout our universe, but they are not material.  The theory that the laws of physics “just exist” and do not require a creator is just as plausible as your belief that God “just exists” and did not have to be created.  The ability to reason does not require a creator any more than the fundamental forces of our universe require a creator.  
 

You cannot prove, neither can I disprove, the existence of a deity responsible for all that exists.  However I find it very easy to reject the idea that an omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient deity exists.  

If the immaterial can exist, then that opens the door for God to Exist.

The Universe and all within the Universe must obey the rules of the Universe. All must undergo a creation event in order to Exist. God is outside of teh Universe, and therefore not subject to it's Laws. God is the Creator, the Creator isn't subject to the laws of the creation. 

 

Logic's existence is proof of God's Existence. Logic cannot be made of anything or by anything in the Universe yet still exists. Only God.

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Austin,

You're simply stringing words together.. 

Please stop making personal assertions and presenting them as if they were self-evident fact. You only embarrass yourself and undermine your own credibility by doing so.

 

What are the "rules of the universe" ?

How would you presume to know and be capable to understand any such rules?

 

It isn't my intention to attack you here or to make accusations, but you come across as if you may be on some mind-altering drug.

 

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38 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

If the immaterial can exist, then that opens the door for God to Exist.


 It opens the door to the idea that the universe is governed by some non-material phenomena.   But you make a huge leap from there to asserting that therefore the God of the Bible exists.  

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4 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

God has given you proof... and I will be happy to show you more of it than you knew existed, if you would like? 

Do you want to know if God is real?

 

You don't have evidence that is up to my standards, Austin.  There's a good reason I rejected the Bible the very first time I read it - it has never been anything more than a storybook to me.

 

The only thing I will accept as evidence is a literal face-to-face encounter with your alleged god, in the physical world, during my current lifetime.  This is not negotiable.  Until and unless I experience such a thing, I have no reason whatsoever to take you and your beliefs seriously.

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1 hour ago, AustinAustin said:

If the immaterial can exist, then that opens the door for God to Exist.

 

Austin, it opens the door for all possible gods to exist, not just the one you happen to believe in.

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