alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Existence is highly over-rated, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, alreadyGone said: Existence is highly over-rated, in my opinion. Austin keeps talking about "you can't prove your own existence" like it's some kind of brilliant epiphany. Does he not realize that cogito ergo sum has been around for several hundred years now? That aside, here's where my mind goes with that line of thought. If I can't prove that I exist, then I have no reason to believe it. And if I'm not going to believe in my own existence, given the evidence of my senses and consciousness, both of which are, admittedly, flawed, then what evidence for god remains which would not be filtered through the same flawed systems? Not being able to prove my own existence gives me even less reason to believe in the existence of a god. Moreover, if nothing exists outside of my own consciousness, then what difference does it make whether I believe in jehovah, vishnu, Ishtar, or none of the above? Why would another "person" care what my non-existent self believed in, given that I could no more believe that person exists than I can believe I do? What difference should it make to one collection of random ganglia in a specimen jar what beliefs the ganglia in the other specimen jars hold dear? Seriously, the whole "you can't even prove your own existence" isn't the power-punch apologetic you think it is, @AustinAustin... if you actually exist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: ...That aside, here's where my mind goes with that line of thought. If I can't prove that I exist, then I have no reason to believe it. And if I'm not going to believe in my own existence, given the evidence of my senses and consciousness, both of which are, admittedly, flawed, then what evidence for god remains which would not be filtered through the same flawed systems? Not being able to prove my own existence gives me even less reason to believe in the existence of a god. ... If our minds and senses are not able to reliably understand and therefore confirm our own existence (on some days I could be convinced of this), then the God who supposedly created us as wretched creatures limited with such a weak flawed grasp on reality, how could he then justly hold us accountable in such a horrible eternal way for understanding and believing in his existence and position as sovereign creator of all things. Or, our failure to do so? It all sounds ridiculous on the surface, but in my passage from believer into apostasy I experienced bouts of similar pondering more than once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 Exactly, @alreadyGone. If we can't even confirm our own existence, how can we possibly be expected to confirm god's? And be held responsible when we fail to do so? The whole think just reeks of irrationality. My consciousness exists; everything else is just window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 If you can't prove that you exist, then asking for proof of another is the height of hypocrisy. You can't prove you exist, and therefore you can't disqualify the existence of another for lack of proof. Do you exist? You do, right? In the same way, God also Exists. We do exist, we just can't prove it in that way. Again, the logic example is, is, proof of GOd's Existence. We are all guilty of sin. If you've looked at another in lust you commit adultery in your heart, if you hate, you have murdered. The only way to Salvation is through Jesus Christ as God and Savior. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: .. The whole think just reeks of irrationality. Say it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 How much time have you spent seeking God's Existence? Reading arguments and other information in favor of His Existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: Do you exist? No. "I" do not exist. "I" am merely an expression of existence. "I" am the universe exploring itself. There is no "I". There is only the limitless expression of existence. "I" am existence and do not require proof of the existence of another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, alreadyGone said: Say it again. It again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: If you can't prove that you exist, then asking for proof of another is the height of hypocrisy. You can't prove you exist, and therefore you can't disqualify the existence of another for lack of proof. You really aren't listening. I personally have not asked anyone for proof of the existence of God. You however have asserted the existence of God based on what you believe to be proof, contained in the quoted excerpt of that article, which you refer to as "the logic example". And in so doing, you assert the existence of a supernatural spirit being. And my response has been to ask repeatedly for a definition of the word "spirit". Which question you cannot answer, and so you evade the question rather than admit that you have no answer. And no Austin, you cannot say "God exists, therefore the question is irrelevant". Not in honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: How much time have you spent seeking God's Existence? Reading arguments and other information in favor of His Existence? More years than you've been alive, little boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: If you can't prove that you exist, then asking for proof of another is the height of hypocrisy. I asked you to prove that logic is the absolute standard for reason. I even created a thread specifically for that purpose. You have failed to do so. Go away, child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Are you afraid to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: How much time have you spent seeking God's Existence? Reading arguments and other information in favor of His Existence? I was a devout believer, as an adult (ignoring my childhood years as a believer) for more years than you have been alive. I prayed, I studied Scripture, I attended worship services, I attended independent Bible studies. I was on the road a lot, traveling for my work. I listened to sermons and lectures by Christian ministers while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: Are you afraid to die? I accept the inevitability of death. There are times when I honestly look forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Are you afraid to die?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: Are you afraid to die? No. You? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: No. You? Yes I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, AustinAustin said: Yes I am. Bless your heart. Why are you afraid? Is it because you think life and death are opposites of each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Bless your heart. Why are you afraid? Is it because you think life and death are opposites of each other? God is life, the absence of life is death. You are far from God, you are already dead -that is why you believe such to be true. Imagine dying, it's terrifying... We all will die. Whether GOd is real or not isn't theoretical, we will all find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: Yes I am. Perfectly normal. All species of animals on earth have an instinct for self-preservation, as is well-known. Human instinct for self-preservation would seem to be as powerful and compelling as any animal. If I saw my death approaching today I'm sure I would do anything I could to avoid it. Other times I am fully prepared to greet death. I've seen enough of this world. I believe I'm being honest and accurate to say that I feared death more as a Christian believer than I do today. "Death smiles at every man. The best a man can do is smile back" -Marcus Aurelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, alreadyGone said: Perfectly normal. All species of animals on earth have an instinct for self-preservation, as is well-known. Human instinct for self-preservation would seem to be as powerful and compelling as any animal. If I saw my death approaching today I'm sure I would do anything I could to avoid it. Other times I am fully prepared to greet death. I've seen enough of this world. I believe I'm being honest and accurate to say that I feared death more as a Christian believer than I do today. "Death smiles at every man. The best a man can do is smile back" -Marcus Aurelius Do you accept that you will die, and that you will find out if God is real or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: Are you afraid to die?? I'll be honest. Yes I am. Not because I'm afraid of hell anymore or anything. Ive only been 4 years deconverted so yeah I have the momentary what if I'm wrong thought. Then a quick run through of all the evidence to the contrary that I've shown you snuffs that "what if" out. Its Just because I like being alive. And I know the odds are greatly in favor of complete non-existence after I die. I actually have a thread you can read in exchristian life. I think it's titled "exchristianity and mortality". In that thread several older exchristians on this site have been gracious enough to discuss this subject. Feel free to read if you wish. It might give you some insight. I hope I live a long enough life that I'm tired of it and ready to die like some others have talked about. Then I won't care if I die. I will have lived a full life and just be ready to finally rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: You are far from God, you are already dead - If you had been paying attention to the logic thread I created for you, you would understand that it is impossible for me to be far from god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, DarkBishop said: I'll be honest. Yes I am. Not because I'm afraid of hell anymore or anything. Ive only been 4 years deconverted so yeah I have the momentary what if I'm wrong thought. Then a quick run through of all the evidence to the contrary that I've shown you snuffs that "what if" out. Its Just because I like being alive. And I know the odds are greatly in favor of complete non-existence after I die. I actually have a thread you can read in exchristian life. I think it's titled "exchristianity and mortality". In that thread several older exchristians on this site have been gracious enough to discuss this subject. Feel free to read if you wish. It might give you some insight. I hope I live a long enough life that I'm tired of it and ready to die like some others have talked about. Then I won't care if I die. I will have lived a full life and just be ready to finally rest. Evidence??? You can't even prove you exist... If there's nothing after, why would you be afraid?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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