Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 14 hours ago, AustinAustin said: God is life, the absence of life is death. Being far from God (banished from His Presence) they did die. They also died too... Logical problem: Explain how is it possible to be "banished" from the Presence of something that is "All Presence?" Let's employ some logic here. Something that is present everywhere can not be 'not-present' anywhere. Including throughout the universe, beyond the universel, the material world, an immaterial realm, inside your own body, and basically anywhere conceivable. God would have to be both life and death in order to literally be an "All Presence." Omnipresent as it's called. There would be no such thing as absent from god, ever. That wouldn't be possible. Unless of course someone is just playing make believe and making things up as they go along and pretending that contradictions like this work out just fine. And logic never factors in to your thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 20 hours ago, AustinAustin said: Im sorry... Logic is the absolute standard of reason, google it... You are utilizing logic now refute the point you disagree with. Try refuting without using logic. If logic exists and logic is absolute, then you would have no choice but to agree with our logical conclusion about god. Everyone would arrive at the same absolute conclusion. Logic turns god into a walking contradiction. Do you still not get the point??? If logic were absolute, it falls in favor of "non-theism." And that would make non-theism absolute. No god via logic. Answers in Genesis set you up for failure, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: Logical problem: Explain how is it possible to be "banished" from the Presence of something that is "All Presence?" Let's employ some logic here. Something that is present everywhere can not be 'not-present' anywhere. Including throughout the universe, beyond the universel, the material world, an immaterial realm, inside your own body, and basically anywhere conceivable. God would have to be both life and death in order to literally be an "All Presence." Omnipresent as it's called. There would be no such thing as absent from god, ever. That wouldn't be possible. Unless of course someone is just playing make believe and making things up as they go along and pretending that contradictions like this work out just fine. And logic never factors in to your thinking.... All is made by and of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Joshpantera said: If logic exists and logic is absolute, then you would have no choice but to agree with our logical conclusion about god. Everyone would arrive at the same absolute conclusion. Logic turns god into a walking contradiction. Do you still not get the point??? If logic were absolute, it falls in favor of "non-theism." And that would make non-theism absolute. No god via logic. Answers in Genesis set you up for failure, basically. Your idea is wrong, respectfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: All is made by and of God. So then you agree that it's a contradiction to claim that god can be absent from anywhere? All (everything) is made by and "of" god. Everything being made "of" god puts god and existence itself as the same thing. What can exist, absent from existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, AustinAustin said: Your idea is wrong, respectfully. Prove your claim. Employ logic to prove that I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 55 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Which, by extension, means that the proposition that the bible is the inerrant, infallible truth is also not true. W 12 hours ago, sdelsolray said: I suspect Poster AustinAustin is incapable of using intellectual honesty and curiosity to address your question, which has raised his cognitive dissonance, and thus he is avoiding it altogether. Quite sad. I thought this was a place for discourse, but it's actually a kind of shelter for atheists to have a fase sense of power while shielding themselves from God... All I would employ is honsety, why would i continue otherwise, it would be a waste of time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Joshpantera said: So then you agree that it's a contradiction to claim that god can be absent from anywhere? God is and is whereever He Wants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: God is and is whereever He Wants... Again, that doesn't work out logically. God either is omnipresent or he isn't. It's one or the other. If god picks and chooses where he wants to be, that's NOT omnipresent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: Again, that doesn't work out logically. God either is omnipresent or he isn't. It's one or the other. If god picks and chooses where is wants to be, that's NOT omnipresent. All is made by and of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, AustinAustin said: All is made by and of God. You've repeated yourself twice now without establishing or demonstrating the truth of your claim. One more time dodging the question and you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, Joshpantera said: You've repeated yourself twice now without establishing or demonstrating the truth of your claim. One more time dodging the question and you're done. Ugh... lol God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Joshpantera said: You've repeated yourself twice now without establishing or demonstrating the truth of your claim. One more time dodging the question and you're done. God has brought us together, please don't waste this opportunity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: W I thought this was a place for discourse, but it's actually a kind of shelter for atheists to have a fase sense of power while shielding themselves from God... All I would employ is honsety, why would i continue otherwise, it would be a waste of time... How precisely would my being a member here shield me from God? You posit God as all-powerful and all-knowing, omnipotent and omniscient. I have no "sense of power" at all. When I was a Christian believer, (which I was as an adult for more years than you have been alive) I had a belief that I held power in the name and person of Christ. Eventually I learned that this belief was false. And foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, alreadyGone said: How precisely would my being a member here shield me from God? You posit God as all-powerful and all-knowing, omnipotent and omniscient. I have no "sense of power" at all. When I was a Christian believer, (which I was as an adult for more years than you have been alive) I had a belief that I held power in the name and person of Christ. Eventually I learned that this belief was false. And foolish. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: God has brought us together, please don't waste this opportunity. You're wasting an opportunity to prove us wrong. This is it. You have center stage. And yet you're dodging questions and trying to hide from facing the outcome of a logical set of conclusions. You're doing all of the wasting here. We've given you a platform to prove yourself. And yet you're loosing every exchange so far - in the name of god at that. You're making god look ridiculous and contradictory for anyone reading these threads. You're doing that to god, not us. It's your lack of power in the name of god as you lose again and again to atheist thinkers every time you post something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, AustinAustin said: Why? Why what? I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Regardless, I am intruding in a discussion of the moment between you and Josh. I will be elsewhere for a while. Be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, alreadyGone said: Regardless, I am intruding in a discussion of the moment between you and Josh. I will be elsewhere for a while. Be well. See Austin, AG is NOT omnipresent! AG can be elsewhere. An omnipresent god, however, can never be elsewhere from anywhere. The claim that anyone can be separated from, or distant to the presence of an all-present god IS logically false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: You're wasting an opportunity to prove us wrong. This is it. You have center stage. And yet you're dodging questions and trying to hide from facing the outcome of a logical set of conclusions. You're doing all of the wasting here. We've given you a platform to prove yourself. And yet you're loosing every exchange so far - in the name of god at that. You're making god look ridiculous and contradictory for anyone reading these threads. You're doing that to god, not us. It's your lack of power in the name of god as you lose again and again to atheist thinkers every time you post something. You couldn't refute the logic example, and you didn't understand it fully... These other ideas you bring up sense are wrong from the beginning... This place is a shield to you, anything you disagree with is suddenly gone -this is an atheist nursery. God is real. That's not just my opinion, I have given you proof, and I think you do know that God is real too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: God has brought us together, please don't waste this opportunity. Austin, If Josh closes this thread down, the you and I can still talk in the one entitled, I can explain it without you having to click any link, Austin Austin. In that thread we can talk about your claim that the universe began to exist. Thank you. Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: You couldn't refute the logic example, and you didn't understand it fully... These other ideas you bring up sense are wrong from the beginning... This place is a shield to you, anything you disagree with is suddenly gone -this is an atheist nursery. God is real. That's not just my opinion, I have given you proof, and I think you do know that God is real too. I refuted your logic example over and over again. Till 10 pages into it the thread was locked for circular reasoning on your part. It hasn't gone anywhere. It's there for people to read through. Everything I've said is correct, everything you've said so far is incorrect and the difference between you and I is that I have demonstrated each time where, when, and why you are incorrect. You just keep repeating a mantra that is never demonstrated as correct. No spam will be tolerated. If you post a wall spam it will disappear. God is not real according anything you've offered so far. You've only given subjective, emotional based, presuppositional oriented claims. None of which prove the existence of god. I don't believe in the existence of gods..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: Something that is present everywhere can not be 'not-present' anywhere. Including throughout the universe, beyond the universel, the material world, an immaterial realm, inside your own body, and basically anywhere conceivable. God would have to be both life and death in order to literally be an "All Presence." Omnipresent as it's called. In logic, this is known as the rule of non-contradiction. Basically, it means that A is A and cannot be anything other that A. A can equal B; but A cannot be B. The most relevant aspect of the rule of non-contradiction is that A cannot be not-A. What we see in this thread, is that the god of the bible simply cannot exist as he is described. Because he cannot be both present and not present. Equally, god cannot be both all-loving and not all-loving. Yet the Bible describes him as such. A quick-witted apologist might say that god's ways are not our ways, that he's mysterious, and that, being all-powerful, he can be both A and not-A. Such a person might then attempt to devolve the thread into, "yes he can", "no he can't"... But, as we've seen, there is a very good possibility that god is not all-powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAustin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, Joshpantera said: I refuted your logic example over and over again. Till 10 pages into it the thread was locked for circular reasoning on your part. It hasn't gone anywhere. It's there for people to read through. Everything I've said is correct, everything you've said so far is incorrect and the difference between you and I is that I have demonstrated each time where, when, and why you are incorrect. You just keep repeating a mantra that is never demonstrated as correct. No spam will tolerated. If you post a wall spam it will disappear. God is not real according anything you've offered so far. You've only given subjective, emotional based, presuppositional oriented claims. None of which prove the existence of god. I don't believe in the existence of gods..... Protecting your atheism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 10, 2021 Author Super Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, AustinAustin said: All I would employ is honsety, why would i continue otherwise, it would be a waste of time... So, then it's time you answered the question honestly. Do you agree with the conclusion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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