How to get rid of unwanted thoughts?

[older]

Hello my friends:

 

As the header says, what’s a good way to get rid of unwanted thoughts? If any of you have dealt with this and has found a technique that worked, some tips would be appreciated. 

My daughter and family are fundies with all the political and social elements that go with that, while my wife and I are liberal atheists, with all that goes with that. We all have been getting along since we’ve agreed to disagree and not get into debates.

 

But then along comes the pandemic and daughter and family have totally ignored all the safety precautions that came with it. There is more to the story but I don’t want to get off the subject and into a tl:dr thread with all the details unless you want them. Suffice to say that something happened that brought me to a state of apoplexy. I’m a pretty mellow guy and rarely get angry with people but what daughter said just blew my brains out. I don’t think I’ve ever been this angry or upset with another person ever.

 

The result of that is that I’m stuck in a loop of anger, creating conversations in my mind that will never happen in reality, and stewing over what was said, which was months ago. My rational self says I need to get over this but I my brain keeps falling back into the loop.

 

So what might you suggest as a way out of this? What I need is something for my own thought patterns — talking to daughter and family about it is not going to happen.

And much thanks in advance.

[midniterider]

I wake up at about 6 am a lot and do that negative obsessing. When this happens I've been trying to stay mindful, like Zen mindfulness. Stay in the present. While I'm present I can tell myself there aint a damn thing I can do about it, or I remind myself of how I didnt worry about stuff before I was born nor will after I'm dead... another thing I try is obsessing about some thing I like. Maybe solving some hobby computer programming problem. Thinking about ham radio. As long it is something I enjoy. This redirecting thought has been fairly helpful. 

 

Obsession has definitely taken hold since I've retired. 

 

The other day I was wondering about how much time I've spent in my lifetime creating negative bullshit in my head and then actually believing it and obsessing over it. My son does the same thing. I think it's one of those things that intelligent people do. Too much damn thinking!!! (haha) 

 

I have some relatives with the same mindset ... not religious, just political. They are all adults and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. 

 

Here's an article with a pretty blond and also 7 things to help get rid of intrusive thoughts 

https://www.northpointrecovery.com/blog/7-tips-deal-stop-intrusive-thoughts/

[older]

Thanks, Midniterider. I like what you wrote about how you didn't worry about stuff before, and also thinking about how much time has been spent on such thoughts. I've spent way, way too much time on my negative thoughts and have many other things to think about. When I wake up at night and get into this I try to think about my hobby projects. That doesn't always work — I guess it will take time. During the day I can get busy with projects; it's the middle of the night stuff that's the worst.

 

I'll check into the mindfulness thing. 

[midniterider]

54 minutes ago, older said:

Thanks, Midniterider. I like what you wrote about how you didn't worry about stuff before, and also thinking about how much time has been spent on such thoughts. I've spent way, way too much time on my negative thoughts and have many other things to think about. When I wake up at night and get into this I try to think about my hobby projects. That doesn't always work — I guess it will take time. During the day I can get busy with projects; it's the middle of the night stuff that's the worst.

 

I'll check into the mindfulness thing. 

 

If, while the thoughts are happening, you can manage to consider the idea that only a portion of your cognitive skills are functioning and that during the day you aren't going to give this nonsense any serious consideration, it's helpful. lol. But that probably comes back to mindfulness...while you're half asleep.

 

Anyway, you will find a solution.

 

 

 

 

[older]

Thanks, Midniterider. I looked up some stuff on the mindfulness concept and tried it last night when I woke up several times. I just put my mind onto paying attention to how I was breathing. Not trying to control breathing, but just observing how it was happening. Had a good night's sleep.

 

And I think just putting this out here helps too. 

 

Of course, this isn't going to go away in a day or two so I'll keep working on it.

 

Thanks again.

[Margee]

So sorry you are going through this older. I feel sometimes when these things happen to us, either coming from family or friends it can put our ''fight or flight'' nervous system into high gear. I find fighting to be useless because we all know you cannot change people. I have fought before and when I let the monster of anger out of me, I can cut deeper (with words) than the deepest ocean...so I choose not to do that anymore. It hasn't happened a lot but I have literally shocked my family and a couple of friends with my feistiness of 'going up one side of them and down the other.' And I have never felt good after even if I think I have 'won'.

 

I do the flight method now because I am convinced (for me) that silence is golden. I back off.  I will not... and refuse to let anyone know when they have got me to a point of no return. So I write it out. I journal. And I let the words fly out on paper of what I'd like to say to them. Be as vile as you want on paper. Cry. Scream. Get the anger out of you. And then go brush yourself off and distract yourself with a healthy hobby or whatever it takes to get your mind off the situation. Let them think they won. When you don't fight back, they'll be perplexed. So take back your power. Be the masterful one. 

 

Then I have to choose to remember that no matter what I would have said to them ..... to the person who has made me this angry, that they will probably not change until  someday  they actually see what they have said or done with their cutting words or actions. They will be sorry or not. But  I just refuse to carry their shit. Most of the time we are being told we are not good enough or we should think like them.

 

I have learned a great technique from a councillor years ago that works very well for me and that is to count backwards from 100 while trying to fall asleep, especially if intrusive thoughts are there to haunt you. The trick to this is that you cannot have two thoughts at once so by counting backwards you have to concentrate on the numbers. If the intrusive thoughts pop up, you have to start all over again. It's like a game and most of the time I drift off to sleep counting. 

 

Best to you my friend. (hug)

 

 

[Myrkhoos]

Good ideas all.

 

Well, anger is a healthy emotion, in general. You can just feel the emotion without intelectualizing it maybe. Feeling it your body, its rise and its demise. Many times we use thoughts and actions to avoid feeling - anger, grief, dissapointment, etc.

[Margee]

I like a lot of what Jorden Peterson has to say. He talks here about having some boundaries with friends and family. 

 

 

[older]

Thank you Margee and Myrkhoos, for your thoughts. I'll take a look at the video tonight. 

 

Margee, I like this: "I just refuse to carry their shit." And yes, I've refrained from getting into a discussion about this with them because it will lead nowhere. So now I am working on not stewing about it, not re-hashing what happened, and not thinking about things I could have said or might like to say. It's going to take some time because the cut was very deep and there are probably permanent scars from the wound. Some things you just can't un-hear, and apologies are not part of their behavior pattern. I've got to leave the computer now but I'll tell you a little about that later.

[older]

Well, I don't want this thread to drift away from the issue of how to get past unwanted thoughts, but I'll give you some very brief background.

 

We all got along great until the virus hit. We live in the same town and before the virus saw each other frequently. Then Daughter called and told us that they were not going to change their lifestyle because of the virus, and wanted us to know so we could decide what to do.

 

Wifey and I are both vulnerable, me very much so as I'm immunocompromised due to chemo ten years ago for cancer, and science does not know if the vaccine is effective in me. Add in some cardio issues and If I get the virus the probability that it will kill me is orders of magnitude higher than for the rest of the population.  So the weekly/bi-weekly visits and get-togethers with them and our grandchildren came to a halt. No more overnights with the kids, no going inside their house. Brief meetings on the patio, no hugs from grandkids.

 

At one point we met at the zoo and she had her mask on under her nose. I said that wouldn't do any good, and she said something which I don't remember. But I blurted out, "So you don't care about other people, then?" She glared at me and said, "NO I DON'T!" This from a person who spends most of Sunday at church and goes to Bible study during the week. That's what pushed me over the edge. This is not the daughter I raised.

 

There are many more examples of them blowing off the threat of the virus but we don't need a tl:dr post. (And nine of the eleven members of that branch of the family got the virus including her hubby and all of the kids. Fortunately none were serious, but now they think it's not worse than a cold and everything should be OK. Unfortunately, their news sources and social circle are heavily biased against the numerous control measures.)

 

So there's the background. Now I need to get my mind past this.

 

When I checked into the office of my new job some four decades ago there was a sign pasted on the inside of the door. I left it there until I retired. It was the serenity prayer, and while I don't go for the God part, the rest is of some value: 

 

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the wisdom to know the difference.

 

I'm working on it, and I thank you all for your help. Any other thoughts about how to move my brain in healthy directions would be welcome.

[Margee]

16 hours ago, older said:

When I checked into the office of my new job some four decades ago there was a sign pasted on the inside of the door. I left it there until I retired. It was the serenity prayer, and while I don't go for the God part, the rest is of some value: 

 

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the wisdom to know the difference.

 

I'm working on it, and I thank you all for your help. Any other thoughts about how to move my brain in healthy directions would be welcome.

 

There really is none other than pure acceptance.  And this acceptance is like grieving a death of someone who has let you down so bad that you can hardly believe it's your own family. I got the same shit going on in a different way and the heavy load it has caused me is unbelievable. I've had to pull so much distance from the neglect of this new generation of self-centered kids. Humans tend to be 'giver's or 'takers'. Mine are 'takers'. Maybe in time they will mature as they get older. (One of mine is also an anti-vaxxer but I never get a visit from him so it hasn't caused much trouble.)

 

I think when we are young (and stupid) we humans can all be wrapped up in our lives but somehow we made time for our friends and families and treated them with more respect. Even as a born again I tried not to judge anyone and tried to fit in with everyone.  I'm so glad mine aren't religious. I can't imagine adding more narcissistic traits to the pile of entitlement and superiority. I'm so sorry you are going through this. The pain has made me want to die, but I will give no one the satisfaction. I am a fighter to the end. I let them come to me now. I don't push for anything. Maybe someday they will regret the ways we were treated and maybe not. That's what we have to accept. So grieve this and make as good of a life that you can for you and your Mrs. older.  I actually prefer talking to trees in nature than humans right now. Lol  Maybe for the first time in my life, I'm actually taking time to smell the roses. I'm appreciating nature more than I ever have in my life. I like the quiet and serenity that it has to offer. I'm not allowing anyone to steal that from me in my older years.

 

I hope you make a nice day for yourself. (hug)

 

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

Hi Older. 

 

I can attest to the value of mindfulness techniques and I strongly recommend them to you.

 

Over the years I had my fair share of personal traumas, difficulties and so on.  Ok, there's nothing special about what I've had to put up with.  We all have to deal with these things in our journey through life.  But if there are some simple but effective techniques that can help us through them, then why not see if they can work for you too?

 

Two techniques helped break the cycle of negative thinking in my life and I'm very grateful to the counsellor who taught them to me.  The first involved something that, at the time, seemed ridiculous and trivial.  All I was asked to do was to sit quietly and hold a single sultana in one hand and then focus all of my senses upon it for ten minutes.  I suppose other kinds of fruit or foods would do, but sultanas have the virtue of pleasantly activating the senses of sight, smell and touch.

 

I was asked to closely study the sultana with my eyes, taking note of its colour and shape, looking at the smallest possible details that I could manage.  

I was asked to inhale the aroma of the fruit and to compare it (from memory) to the smells of other fruits and other sweet-tasting foods.

I was asked to feel the texture of it, to feel its wrinkled outer skin and to knead it gently, feeling how yielded to the pressure of my fingers. 

 

The act of doing these things totally absorbed my interest for those ten minutes.  During that time I was completely focused on doing only that.  There was no space left in my mind for anything else.  My counsellor then asked my if any stressful or troubling thoughts had cropped up in my thinking during that ten minute period.  My answer was an emphatic, 'No!'

 

I was grinning from ear to ear at this point, older.

 

It was a watershed moment for me.  Here was a simple technique that completely excluded any negativity from my mind for that duration.  I realized that if this could work, then other, more long-term techniques could work as well.  The 'sultana in the hand' exercise didn't need to be repeated, which was, of course, exactly what my counsellor had planned.  It was just something that I needed to do to get me to realize that mindfulness could work for me.

 

Later, we moved on to the second technique.

 

I won't elaborate too much about this one because its a type of meditation that involves focusing on the breathing in a very particular way.  It's too specialised to easily describe here and any description I might give wouldn't do it justice.  IMO, the best and only way forward is to find mindfulness techniques that work for you, not for anyone else.  All I will say right now is that I practice this meditation for twenty minutes each morning and the benefits of doing this have been very worthwhile.

 

I hope this has been helpful older and may I just say thank for referring to us as your friends.  

 

Wishing you well.

 

Walter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I've been dealing with some thoughts of my own lately, mainly to do with my mother, but also tied in with Ms. Ex-neck and the future of Redneck Jr.  Unfortunately, my position at work currently involves a lot of mindless tasks that require little attention, which leaves my mind free to wander where it will.  For months I rarely thought about anything other than The Big Debacle: all the things I should say to my mother, the next time I get dragged into child custody court, the justifications for revenge, the nobility of my own position.  Few of the thoughts were positive or enlightened.  I eventually got tired of thinking about all that.  So much of my time was being spent on negativity, when the facts of the case were that the only productive thing I could do was cut my mother off, which I has already done in practice, so why not also in my own thinking?  Of Ms. Ex-neck and Redneck Jr. I can control nothing; only accept what will be.  There's simply no point in thinking about it anymore.  If only it were that simple...

 

One tactic I attempt to employ in pursuit of mindfulness is to observe without judgment.  This works for meeting new people, learning new tasks, experiencing new circumstances, etc.  But it also works for thoughts.  When they come, I can simply "look" at them.  I don't need to entertain them; and I certainly don't need to act, or even speak, on them.  I can simply examine the thought as I would a new specimen in the lab.  Thoughts only have what power over us we give them.  Give them nine; and they tend to go on their merry way.

[older]

I'm taking in all your suggestions and have already started to work on them. I know it will take time — wounds don't heal in one day or even one week, but just the last two days have been a little bit better. You folks are so kind and supportive. It means a lot to me. Thank you.

[older]

3 hours ago, Margee said:

... this new generation of self-centered kids....

 

 

 

  

That's what is at the bottom of this. The virus issue I wrote about above really is just the culmination of smaller things that have happened over the years.

 

Enough about that. Time to move on.

[midniterider]

Another one for you, Older. It helps me at little at least to open my eyes in the middle of the night when I'm worrying. The flood of visual reality tends to wipe out something I'm obsessing about. Ok, that's it, I'm officially out of ideas.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

In my case, I often remind myself that I've already suffered enough because of these people; and why should I allow myself to suffer even another thought about them?  I don't know if it would apply in your particular case, @older; but it helps me.

[ConsiderTheSource]

Gray rocking.

 

The crap these folk express are not worth very little of my precious limited existence.

[freshstart]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:01 PM, older said:

I blurted out, "So you don't care about other people, then?" She glared at me and said, "NO I DON'T!" This from a person who spends most of Sunday at church and goes to Bible study during the week. That's what pushed me over the edge. This is not the daughter I raised.

 

I have to be honest, my first thought at reading this was a sense of sorrow for your daughter.  If she truly does not care for others, even if they are strangers,  what a terrible and lonely place to be!

Understandably, you've been very wounded by your daughter's words and attitude.  It might be very powerful to let her know how much her words hurt you, without any expectation of an apology.  Statements like that don't always sink in at first, but over time, sometimes they do.

 

As for trying to keep your mind from obsessive negative thoughts, I struggle with the same thing right now. . .although in a different way.  I have a torn muscle in my shoulder and when the pain is at its best, it feels like someone jammed a rock inside my shoulder joint.  At its worst, it feels like that rock is growing and spreading sharp tentacles, especially when trying to sleep.  It is relentless as in I never, ever have even a moment when the pain is not there.  I have to wait 2 months for surgery (thank you very much, covid!) and after trying every kind of prescription for pain and other non-pharmaceutical measures - without success, I have decided the only thing I can do is distract myself from focusing on the pain as well as accept the pain and try to somehow use this as an opportunity for mental/emotional/spiritual growth.  I am turning to mindfulness and meditation practices that help me to cope by examining my reactions to the pain, as well as the pain itself, without judgment.  So that is another avenue you might pursue as part of mindfulness.  Perhaps observe your feelings in reaction to your daughter's words - without judgment - every time those feelings arise.  In one meditation technique I've learned, as you sit focusing on breathing, if a feeling arises, the idea is to label that feeling (e.g. anger, sorrow, pain etc.), identify the feeling's location (where is felt most?  The chest? The gut?  The throat?) and describe the feeling (an ache? a tension? a heaviness? a tightness?).  Study the feeling with curiosity as if you were an entomologist studying a bug.   And then "package" it in a box, a cloud, whatever, and let it float away.  I think the idea is to help you learn that your feelings are not you.  If you can separate yourself from your negative emotions, it makes the experience less intense.  

To be honest, this is extremely challenging for me and sometimes I just have to get drunk!   But obviously that is not a long-term solution!  Best wishes to you. 

[older]

Thank you everyone for your followup comments. This week has been better. I think just sharing this with you and getting your support helps. I've been working on the mindfulness. Some months ago my doctor suggested mindfulness to me for a completely different issue, one that is more physical than mental, sort of in the same category but not nearly as severe as your shoulder, Freshstart. I didn't follow through but I'm now seeing the value of it.

 

As you all know, these things take time. I'll have a week out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday, in a different environment and with people who share our values. I'm looking forward to it. I'll be able to respond here and will keep you posted when I have new information to share. Thanks again.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, freshstart said:

I have a torn muscle in my shoulder and when the pain is at its best, it feels like someone jammed a rock inside my shoulder joint.  At its worst, it feels like that rock is growing and spreading sharp tentacles, especially when trying to sleep.  It is relentless as in I never, ever have even a moment when the pain is not there.  I have to wait 2 months for surgery (thank you very much, covid!) and after trying every kind of prescription for pain and other non-pharmaceutical measures - without success, I have decided the only thing I can do is distract myself from focusing on the pain as well as accept the pain and try to somehow use this as an opportunity for mental/emotional/spiritual growth.  I am turning to mindfulness and meditation practices that help me to cope by examining my reactions to the pain, as well as the pain itself, without judgment.

I experienced shingles for about 8 months back in 2018-19.  Due to certain proclivities, I am unable to take opioid or narcotic pain medications.  As a result, Excedrin and 4% lidocaine were the strongest medicines I could have; which didn't even register against the searing hellfire that wrapped my upper torso.  This really was the beginning of my mindfulness practice; because literally all I could do for hours was observe my pain, examine it, and ultimately accept it without judgment.  It was truly a baptism by fire.

[midniterider]

Thanks for reminding me to get that second shingles shot.

 

 

[florduh]

They are just thoughts, like any other. Let them come and go like all the others; they are just thoughts. Toxic behavior in your present moment can be eliminated if you're willing. If you choose to not eliminate but rather accept the negative influence and input then just embrace that and learn from it. You are totally in charge despite what you might think at times. Let that be a thought!

[older]

Thank you, Florduh. Wise words, much appreciated.