Was Jesus the perfect man?

[Sexton Blake]

I used the King James bible for this as in:

 

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

 

This is what the gospels tell us about Jesus:

 

Jesus lied, ranted, run amok, was a coward, cursed, blasphemed, threatened entire cities, gloated over bad luck of others and that most people will go to hell where he sends them, was racist, was anti-Semite, was a smug git, hated people, wants people to cut off hands and feet and pluck out eyes.

He boasts he has come to destroy families and make war, wants disobedient children murdered, hates the rich, not to give money to the poor, supports cannibalism, was glad everyone died in the Flood, supported slavery, was possibly gay.

And he never, ever smiled or laughed, which sounds right about a fanatic who said people who do not believe in him will be burned like rubbish. You could also add that he was a suicide as he came to die for us, and the church now considers suicide a sin.

He is my idea of a sinner. And a real nasty fanatic.

[alreadyGone]

He told everyone that he had come to bring us life, and more abundant life..

And didn't bother to explain to people that something so simple as frequent hand-washing would improve health and prolong life.

[Joshpantera]

On 12/12/2021 at 3:06 PM, Sexton Blake said:

Jesus lied, ranted, run amok, was a coward, cursed, blasphemed, threatened entire cities, gloated over bad luck of others and that most people will go to hell where he sends them, was racist, was anti-Semite, was a smug git, hated people, wants people to cut off hands and feet and pluck out eyes.

 

So all in all, jesus was like most christians today. Except for the cutting off hands and plucking out eyes the rest seems pretty representative of most believers. 

 

 

[Fish153]

"And he never, ever smiled or laughed.." How do you know? Are there historical records that say Jesus never laughed or smiled? And it seems everyone on the board who read this had no problem with such an unverifiable statement.

 

I personally believe Jesus smiled quite frequently. In fact, at times he appears to have been filled with great joy, like when he asks Zaccheus to come down from the tree and have a meal with Him.

 

This post was obviously written by someone with an extreme bias against Jesus. None of it is true. Jesus did not espouse cannibalism. He used a term "eat my flesh and drink my blood" but everyone knows He is referring to His death, and the Communion table of bread and wine.

 

This person just hates God and says things about Jesus that are simply untrue. Even other religions (Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc) recognize Jesus as a very wise and good man. NONE of them make the accusations the writer of this thread does. And yet many of you just accept it as truth. How very sad.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Are there historical records that say Jesus never laughed or smiled?

Are there reliable records that say jesus healed the sick, walked on water, rose from the dead?  Other than the bible?  This guy seriously just strolled around curing leprosy and not a single historian, Jewish or Roman, ever heard of him?  That's a pretty lame argument, even for you.

[Fish153]

Redneck--

 

So then, you "accept" as truth that Jesus never smiled or laughed because a deconvert said it? I saw no post from you asking where the guy got his information. You were fine with it-- apparently it was "fine" with several others here also, who are so engrossed with "fact checking". Do deconverts get to "slide" when stating obvious lies? Just asking.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

25 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck--

 

So then, you "accept" as truth that Jesus never smiled or laughed because a deconvert said it? I saw no post from you asking where the guy got his information. You were fine with it-- apparently it was "fine" with several others here also, who are so engrossed with "fact checking". Do deconverts get to "slide" when stating obvious lies? Just asking.

Perhaps you should be asking whether or not I accept jesus even existing in the first place before you start going off half-cocked like that, son.  Because if I don't accept his existence as factual, then whether or not he smiled, laughed, or licked a goat's ass becomes rather a moot point, doesn’t it?

 

Now, building on the question already asked, is there any credible evidence that jesus, as presented in the gospel, actually existed? 

[Fish153]

The Bible says Jesus picked up little children and held them in His arms. He rebuked his disciples and said "allow the little children to come to me for of such is the Kingdom of God".

 

Let me ask you, have you ever picked up little children without smiling? (sure-- there are "times" when you might not smile, such as if the child was hurt, or was being "bad"--but who can avoid smiling when picking up a cute little kid?).

 

And Jesus never laughed? Give me a break. He must have laughed many times. I'll bet he laughed when the woman at the well abruptly changed the subject when Jesus revealed that he knew she was living with a man she wasn't married to. Jesus didn't condemn her by the way-- he allowed her to change the subject. But I would bet my bottom dollar he laughed at her attempt.

 

The guy who wrote the first post has painted an awful picture of Jesus which does not match with Scripture at all. Read John 8 to see his compassion towards the woman caught in adultery. See his compassion and love as he feeds the 5000, or heals the sick (I realize you don't BELIEVE he healed the sick-- but the point I am making is that the person above has no evidence from Scripture that Jesus was a stern unsmiling despot who never laughed). I hope the gentleman acknowledges that Jesus CRIED because it says so in John 11:35 "Jesus wept". Yes-- this unfeeling scoundrel wept when a friend died.

[Fish153]

Redneck--

 

The person who wrote the first post sure acts as if he believes Jesus existed though doesn't he? Why didn't you ask him: "it appears you believe Jesus was a real person who neither laughed or smiled. Can you back this up?"  I'm not going off half-cocked Redneck, I'm asking a serious question. Why was he "allowed" to make statements that have no basis in reality without being questioned by ANYONE about it.

 

"Jesus never laughed or smiled". Deconversion board: "it must be true because a deconvert said it".

 

You ask me for PROOFS Jesus healed people, why not ask this guy for his PROOF Jesus never laughed or smiled? Bit of a double-standard don't you think?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Why didn't you ask him

Because Sexton has been around here for years and I already know, and understand, what he believes.  I also understand the nature and purpose of his original post.

 

Now, if you're not happy with the way I run this forum, you're welcome to start your own website and run it ever how you like.  

[nontheistpilgrim]

I'm trying to work out which Jesus you all are talking about-is it one of the twenty Jesus's mentioned by Josephus?

[Fish153]

Redneck--

 

Thanks for explaining. No I'm perfectly happy with you as moderator-- I even said so on another thread. You've been very fair.

 

[Fish153]

Non-theist--

Josephus was a HISTORIAN. So even if he mentions 20 of them there must have been a REAL person he was referring to. One of the 20 must have been the real guy.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

23 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck--

 

Thanks for explaining. No I'm perfectly happy with you as moderator-- I even said so on another thread. You've been very fair.

 

"I AM the Prof thy Mod; and thou shalt have no other Mods before me."  1 Professorians 6:66

[Fish153]

"And the board members did seek to replace the Prof. With other moderators. And thus, moved with jealousy and anger, the Prof. Banned them from entering more onto the board, and thus it was. Behold, is it not written in the Book of Moderators?(1 Professions 13:13)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

13. And the prophet spake, and saith unto him, 14. "O Prof my Mod, how long shalt thou suffer this troll in thy midst?  For I have heard the lamentations of my people, how they cry out and will not be comforted until he is banned."  15. And the Prof was moved* and ruled he then over The Den, wherein all trolls, cretins, and workers of illogic might be banished.  16. That there might they dwell until they troll no more, neither do they believe without evidence.  17. And the people did rejoice. 18. Then did they feast in that day upon wren's livers and ocelot spleen. 

The Gospel of St. Redneck chapter 7

 

 

*In some translations: "the Prof was grieved"

[Joshpantera]

"Is it not written in your law, 'I have said you are mods?'" 

 

Book of Moderators 10:34

[Astreja]

7 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Non-theist--

Josephus was a HISTORIAN. So even if he mentions 20 of them there must have been a REAL person he was referring to. One of the 20 must have been the real guy.

 

He could have been speaking of 20 real people.  That doesn't mean that any of them had supernatural powers, or that the Gospel stories were based upon any of them. 

[Fish153]

joshpantera--

That made me laugh out loud.

 

Prof. Serious question: do you really see me as a "troll"? I laughed at your set of verses also, but paused when you were referring to a "troll" in your midst.

 

Honda announcer:  "our cars have been reliable for years. We are even in the Bible in the book of Acts. "And they all prayed together with one Accord".

[Fish153]

Astreja--

 

True, but the fact he mentions a teacher named "Jesus" does establish the fact a person at that time named Jesus was teaching and leading people. He wasn't a figment of someone's imagination.

[Fish153]

"Do all things in moderation"

[Astreja]

1 minute ago, Fish153 said:

Astreja--

 

True, but the fact he mentions a teacher named "Jesus" does establish the fact a person at that time named Jesus was teaching and leading people. He wasn't a figment of someone's imagination.

 

But did that particular Jesus have any connection to the character in the Bible?  We'll probably never know.

 

Regardless, it isn't evidence for even one supernatural claim.  I believe that if there was indeed a real-life Jesus he performed no miracles, and I also believe that he died and remains dead to this day.

[nontheistpilgrim]

1 hour ago, Fish153 said:

Astreja--

 

True, but the fact he mentions a teacher named "Jesus" does establish the fact a person at that time named Jesus was teaching and leading people. He wasn't a figment of someone's imagination.

I still don't know which Jesus we are talking about, how can I? I do believe, so far as I understand the evidence (ouch, that word) that there were a number of people called Jesus who were wandering preachers. But there is no evidence for the supernatural stuff that the Jesus of the Bible is supposed to have done; that is mythos not logos.

 

BTW apologies that the time difference leaves me in UK behind.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Prof. Serious question: do you really see me as a "troll"? I laughed at your set of verses also, but paused when you were referring to a "troll" in your midst.

Nah.  Only one of your personalities is a troll.  The rest are good people, I'm sure.

[Fish153]

Redneck--good to hear. I told my sister "Sybil" that this was a great board to visit. She should be along shortly.