ISRAEL PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 minute ago, DarkBishop said:

Looks like the fish has already been flushed. .......... eh. Oh well. I was actually interested to hear what he came up with before it started revolving in circles. 

Speaking of flushing and revolving in circles, is it true that the toilet water swirls counter-clockwise in New Zealand and Australia?  @LogicalFallacy, can you enlighten us?  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 12/18/2021 at 4:21 PM, Fish153 said:

 

One must be WILLFULLY ignorant to deny His existence.

 

Will you remain willfully ignorant of our reasons for leaving the faith?  If you wish to see both sides of the issue, read our testimonies in the TESTIMONIAL forum.

[LogicalFallacy]

9 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Speaking of flushing and revolving in circles, is it true that the toilet water swirls counter-clockwise in New Zealand and Australia?  @LogicalFallacy, can you enlighten us?  

 

Yes it is true - does it swirl in a different direction in the northern hemisphere? 

 

Except what I've read indicates it should be counter in the northern and clockwise in the southern. But that's not what I observe. Maybe something to do with the Coriolis Effect or perhaps the shape of the vessel holding the water. Should test it on my oblong sink. Lets science the shit out of this.  

[alreadyGone]

35 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Yes it is true - does it swirl in a different direction in the northern hemisphere? 

 

Except what I've read indicates it should be counter in the northern and clockwise in the southern. But that's not what I observe. Maybe something to do with the Coriolis Effect or perhaps the shape of the vessel holding the water. Should test it on my oblong sink. Lets science the shit out of this.  

 

In either hemisphere, it all flows downhill.

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

50 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Yes it is true - does it swirl in a different direction in the northern hemisphere? 

 

Except what I've read indicates it should be counter in the northern and clockwise in the southern. But that's not what I observe. Maybe something to do with the Coriolis Effect or perhaps the shape of the vessel holding the water. Should test it on my oblong sink. Lets science the shit out of this.  

It swirls clockwise in the northern hemisphere. 

[Fish153]

No. I didn’t swim off. But so far the only post that made any sense was from Walter. Agreed, it isn’t a “proof”. That is the wrong Word. But it is an “evidence” has been stated.

 

I would state though that I hate the argument being used here once again that you won’t except the message because God is condemning people to hell. Imagine if you were drowning and someone offers you a life-saver. You say “I won’t take one until you prove to me everyone else who is drowning is offered one too”. You’ll drown before they can prove that to you. What is the LOGICAL thing to do? Take the life-saver and avoid drowning.

 

Atheists make argument that those never told about Christ will go to hell and how awful that is. Number one: we don’t know that for sure do we? Secondly and very seriously, HAVE YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR THE GOSPEL?  YES YOU HAVE.  Has mercy been extended to you? YES IT HAS. Please don’t use an argument about WHAT “MIGHT” happen to someone who hasn’t heard the Gospel while ignoring the fact that YOU HAVE HEARD IT. That is a foolish, and very honestly, a stupid argument to be using.

[Fish153]

Astreja— your post brought me to giggles. God must show Himself you you personally before you’ll believe. In other words “I am the REAL God, you must submit to MY demands”. That’s funny. Thanks for that bit of humor.

[Fish153]

Alit—

So it appears you would rather be in HELL with b——-d who raped the woman next to you then? I don’t get your logic. In Heaven all tears will be wiped away. There will be NO MORE murderers or rapists or liars. All evil will be gone. Sin will be gone forever. Your argument is baseless.

[Fish153]

Already gone—

 

Why would God choose the way of faith to know Him? I don’t know, I am not God.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

14 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Imagine if you were drowning and someone offers you a life-saver. You say “I won’t take one until you prove to me everyone else who is drowning is offered one too”.

Imagine if the person offering you the life-saver was also the same person who had deliberately ran the boat into the iceberg and condemned everyone to drown.  Sure, you might take the offer to save your own ass; but do you really think you could spend eternity worshipping such a diabolical fiend?  I could not.

[Fish153]

DarkBishop—

 

That was quite a long post. 1942-1945 Satan attempts to WIPE OUT The Jews. 6 million of them die. Why? He knows that prophecy states there must be Jews to turn to their Messiah as a NATION in order for prophecy to be fulfilled. So he reasons (and Satan is insane) that if he can destroy the Jews they CANNOT form a nation who turns back to their Messiah. And thus, prophecy can NEVER be fulfilled.

 

God “allows” the “attempt” (why? Only God knows) and Satan fails. He kills 6 million Jews though. Now consider this— Only (3) years later Israel becomes THAT NATION Satan was attempting to destroy. God FULFILLS His prophecy ANYWAY. At the SAME TIME the Dead Sea Scrolls are found after 2000 years in hiding. God orchestrates both events. My friends don’t be WILFULLY BLIND. It is right in front of you but you are refusing to acknowledge it. And that is very sad.

[Fish153]

Redneck—-

 

That is completely untrue though. We aren’t drowning because of God. We are drowning because of our sins. The very thing you crave: free will, is what has led you to drowning. God gave you free will and you have made the wrong choice. Now God is offering a way back to Himself and you are refusing it based on the logic that not everyone “might” be receiving the same offer as is being given to you. Don’t be stupid. Accept the life preserver my friend.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Listen, son.  It's okay with us for you to believe any old thing your little heart desires.  But in this forum we expect assertions, claims, and any other statement of purported fact to be supported by evidence.  You're going to have a tough row to hoe if the best you can do is baldly assert your beliefs without being able to back them up.  I tell you this as a kindness, because you're already repeating your original unfounded claims (typical christian behavior); and that means things might start turning ugly for you right quick.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

7 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck—-

 

That is completely untrue though. We aren’t drowning because of God. We are drowning because of our sins. The very thing you crave: free will, is what has led you to drowning. God gave you free will and you have made the wrong choice. Now God is offering a way back to Himself and you are refusing it based on the logic that not everyone “might” be receiving the same offer as is being given to you. Don’t be stupid. Accept the life preserver my friend.

I'm not your friend.  god did not place the tree of knowledge in the garden on accident.  He placed it there deliberately.  Now, if he is omniscient, then he knew what Eve and Adam would choose.  This means, per your analogy, he deliberately set the boat onto a direct collision course with the iceberg, then blamed everyone else when motherfuckers started drowning.  Read the book for yourself.  It's all there in black and white.  Or, we can direct you to several threads on this very website that deal with your ridiculous creation myth and the "free will" god purportedly gave us.

[Fish153]

Weezer—

I have read the Testimonials and they are all the same. 75% of them, once read, show that deconverts leave the faith because of people, not God. They leave because of other Christians. Hypocrisy (we are all hypocrites to a certain extent) is a main reason given. Deconverts judge Christianity based on anything negative brought on them by other “believers”. It’s interesting that Dan Barker’s book is called “Losing faith in Faith” rather than “Losing faith in Christ”. Think about it.

 

Then there are those who deconvert because they feel God has hurt them in some way. Their Mom died of cancer— how could God exist? It’s ALL subjective. This happened to ME, so how could God exist?   Then there are small percentage who actually studied and came to the conclusion there are too many “difficulties” in the Bible. Errors, etc., that “convince” them the Bible isn’t true. The only problem is THEY ARE WRONG and the “difficulties” can be reasonably explained.

 

Deconverts can be found in John 6, near the end of the chapter. Read it and see how many of his “disciples” turned back, and “followed him no more”. It was because they were OFFENDED by him or what he taught. Yes, I’ve read the “testimonies” and all of these people are like the people in John 6. Had they “continued” they would enter great blessings. But they have chosen to “turn back” instead. Too bad they did not have the faith of Peter, who asks “to whom shall we go? You alone have the words of eternal life”.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Touching on free will, though, since you mentioned it, let me ask you this: is god omnipotent, or is god omniscient?  He cannot be both.  Free will precludes it.

 

pre·clude

/prəˈklo͞od/

 

verb

prevent from happening; make impossible.

"the secret nature of his work precluded official recognition"

[Fish153]

Redneck—-

 

I see you are a moderator. Are my posts starting to hurt and annoy you? It sounds like it. Deconverts and atheists have VERY thin skin. As a Christian I EXPECT you to ban me quite shortly. You left the faith because you were easily offended. It continues the same with most of you. You can “dish it out” but you “can’t take it”.  What’s funny is that this is supposed to be an area where one can debate. But real debate is out of the question with people like you. You are offended far too quickly to stay in a conversation. If you don’t like the coffee that is being served by Christians then YUBAN them.

[nontheistpilgrim]

52 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

snip...

 

Atheists make argument that those never told about Christ will go to hell and how awful that is. Number one: we don’t know that for sure do we? Secondly and very seriously, HAVE YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR THE GOSPEL?  YES YOU HAVE.  Has mercy been extended to you? YES IT HAS. Please don’t use an argument about WHAT “MIGHT” happen to someone who hasn’t heard the Gospel while ignoring the fact that YOU HAVE HEARD IT. That is a foolish, and very honestly, a stupid argument to be using.

I've never heard an atheist make that argument, only Christians (and not all of those I will admit). It is your 'holy' book that aserts this, according to (evangelical) Christians, it is your argument.

The rest of your statement I do not understand. There is no 'MIGHT' about it - according to your Bible - it is a certainty that those who reject Christ will perish in everlasting fire etc etc.

Please be honest with yourself Fish153

[nontheistpilgrim]

9 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck—-

 

I see you are a moderator. Are my posts starting to hurt and annoy you? It sounds like it. Deconverts and atheists have VERY thin skin. As a Christian I EXPECT you to ban me quite shortly. You left the faith because you were easily offended. It continues the same with most of you. You can “dish it out” but you “can’t take it”.  What’s funny is that this is supposed to be an area where one can debate. But real debate is out of the question with people like you. You are offended far too quickly to stay in a conversation. If you don’t like the coffee that is being served by Christians then YUBAN them.

Poor Fish153, you haven't been around here long, have you? (Unless you were here under a different name, which I suspect may be true.)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck—-

 

I see you are a moderator. Are my posts starting to hurt and annoy you? It sounds like it. Deconverts and atheists have VERY thin skin. As a Christian I EXPECT you to ban me quite shortly. You left the faith because you were easily offended. It continues the same with most of you. You can “dish it out” but you “can’t take it”.  What’s funny is that this is supposed to be an area where one can debate. But real debate is out of the question with people like you. You are offended far too quickly to stay in a conversation. If you don’t like the coffee that is being served by Christians then YUBAN them.

Wow.  Sounds like you know as much about me as you do about god.

 

Seriously though, I didn't ask you for a psychological profile.  I asked you if god is omnipotent or omniscient.   So, which is it?

[alreadyGone]

54 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Already gone—

 

Why would God choose the way of faith to know Him? I don’t know, I am not God.

 

Let me attempt to be a little more clear and direct:

Why would a God who knows all and understands our nature place us in that position?

 

Why would He be so "thin-skinned" as to place so much importance on our belief without any actual objective reason, so much that He would be willing to condemn us to a horrible eternal punishment if we fail to take that belief?

 

Realize please that it is entirely against our human nature to place trust and belief in that which we cannot know as an objective reality. I think the case can easily be made that this is part of our basic evolution, given the survival instinct: investing belief in that which you do not know as objective fact to be true can have severe consequences.

 

Please refrain from assertions that because you have accepted that belief that it is in fact natural to us as human beings.

 

Thank you for your further consideration.

[Fish153]

Redneck——

 

Who says God can’t be both? You?  Nothing “precludes” it. God created us, we didn’t create God. Must God answer to OUR logic? Says who? You? This is the atheists major problem. To them everything has a beginning and an end. They REFUSE to believe that someone CREATED time and is not constrained by it. God has no beginning or end—He CREATED time. It’s not logical but who says God must live within OUR logic?

[alreadyGone]

11 minutes ago, nontheistpilgrim said:

Poor Fish153, you haven't been around here long, have you? (Unless you were here under a different name, which I suspect may be true.)

 

Well the Southern California part fits..

[Fish153]

Nontheist—

 

No. Never have been here before. But I have been on other deconvert blogs and boards before (several years ago). They always claim Christians speak in circular logic. But Deconverts do the same thing. Usually in the end a moderator says “it’s my way or the highway” and the person is banned. And it’s usually for a very small offense. As I said, Deconverts have VERY THIN SKIN. So If you want to stay on a board you have to praise people a lot, and agree with them a lot, and flatter them for their scientific intuitive minds. After all, what they really want is to be God themselves.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

5 minutes ago, Fish153 said:

Redneck——

 

 This is the atheists major problem.

I'm not an atheist.