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Goodbye Jesus

ISRAEL PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD


Fish153

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7 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Walter—

 

Sorry to to argue with you but I think what happens in my head DOES interest you, or you wouldn’t continue to post in this thread. You see, none of the deconverts here can give you “objective evidence” for their deconversions either.

 

They share their emotional experiences, facing the fact that they don’t believe. They speak of inner suffering and realization (purely subjective) that they don’t believe the Bible any more. But if one could TRULY,factually, disprove the Bible there would be no board here. But much of the reason to not believe the Bible here is subjective, not factual at all. You expect me to prove things when you REALLY CANNOT disprove them either.

 

There is no way you can prove Jesus is NOT in Heaven right now, any more than I can prove He IS there. And you know this. Sure, you can scoff, and say it is absurd— but you REALLY don’t know for sure if He is there or not.  One of the people on this very board mentioned how deconverts still struggle with concepts like hell that they were “brainwashed” with—- but can you PROVE no future hell exists? Just because you say it is absurd and stupid doesn’t remove it if it IS real.

 

So again, I think that what is in my head DOES interest you. “How can he continue to believe in that crap?!!?” you might ask. And others may secretly be looking for reassurance that their deconversion was the right thing to do. “What if it all winds up being true in the end, and I rejected salvation?” One might ask.

 

If you weren’t interested you’d head to another area of the board. If I was on a board and some dude was going on and on about his adventures with Easter Bunny I would head to a different thread. Why? Because I know for sure there is no Easter Bunny. If you were SURE there was no Jesus you would write me off and go to another area of the Board. But you know what I think? Despite your posts you really aren’t 100% sure Jesus doesn’t exist. You say it’s all a myth— yet if you truly believed it was all a myth you wouldn’t even debate it. Just like me with the dude thinking he’s talked to the Easter Bunny. I’m not going to debate him because I am 100% sure there is no Easter Bunny. It would be useless to debate with him.

 

 

 

 

Fish,

 

Why am I banging on about what goes on in your head?

 

Is it because I'm interested?

 

No.

 

It's because I'm trying to get you to understand that what's inside of your head falls short of the standards of objective evidence that this forum expects of you.

 

It's really that simple.

 

Please stop focusing on yourself when making claims and support your claims with objective evidence.

 

(How many times have I ask you that, I wonder?)

 

If I keep on asking you for objective evidence, then I can't be interested in what goes on in your head, can I?

 

Please answer this question.

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7 hours ago, Fish153 said:

Walter—

 

Sorry to to argue with you but I think what happens in my head DOES interest you, or you wouldn’t continue to post in this thread. You see, none of the deconverts here can give you “objective evidence” for their deconversions either.

 

They share their emotional experiences, facing the fact that they don’t believe. They speak of inner suffering and realization (purely subjective) that they don’t believe the Bible any more. But if one could TRULY,factually, disprove the Bible there would be no board here. But much of the reason to not believe the Bible here is subjective, not factual at all. You expect me to prove things when you REALLY CANNOT disprove them either.

 

There is no way you can prove Jesus is NOT in Heaven right now, any more than I can prove He IS there. And you know this. Sure, you can scoff, and say it is absurd— but you REALLY don’t know for sure if He is there or not.  One of the people on this very board mentioned how deconverts still struggle with concepts like hell that they were “brainwashed” with—- but can you PROVE no future hell exists? Just because you say it is absurd and stupid doesn’t remove it if it IS real.

 

So again, I think that what is in my head DOES interest you. “How can he continue to believe in that crap?!!?” you might ask. And others may secretly be looking for reassurance that their deconversion was the right thing to do. “What if it all winds up being true in the end, and I rejected salvation?” One might ask.

 

If you weren’t interested you’d head to another area of the board. If I was on a board and some dude was going on and on about his adventures with Easter Bunny I would head to a different thread. Why? Because I know for sure there is no Easter Bunny. If you were SURE there was no Jesus you would write me off and go to another area of the Board. But you know what I think? Despite your posts you really aren’t 100% sure Jesus doesn’t exist. You say it’s all a myth— yet if you truly believed it was all a myth you wouldn’t even debate it. Just like me with the dude thinking he’s talked to the Easter Bunny. I’m not going to debate him because I am 100% sure there is no Easter Bunny. It would be useless to debate with him.

 

 

 

 

Fish, 

 

Are you so focused on yourself that you don't even bother to read our messages properly?

 

I reckon so, because you've misquoted me again.

 

Please look at the sentence above I've highlighted for your attention.

 

Here it is again.

 

There is no way you can prove Jesus is NOT in Heaven right now, any more than I can prove He IS there.

 

Yesterday I told you that I DID NOT SAY THAT JESUS WASN'T IN HEAVEN !

 

Nor did I say that I could prove anything about him.

 

You are bearing false witness against me when you claim that I said that.

 

I didn't.

 

 

Stop misquoting me.

 

Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

Stop telling lies about me.

 

 

 

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Fish: I am wondering why you are banging on so much about your faith to a community whose members have decided to rejected your faith - for good reasons.

Are you

ONE: trying to gain a place amongst the 144,000

or

TWO: sending us all to hell because we have rejected the Jesus you keep on about (see my previous post)?

or some other reason?

 

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Here's an update for you, Fish.

 

This morning I wrote these words...

 

 

Please stop focusing on yourself when making claims and support your claims with objective evidence.

 

(How many times have I ask you that, I wonder?)

 

If I keep on asking you for objective evidence, then I can't be interested in what goes on in your head, can I?

 

Please answer this question.

 

 

Well, I don't have to wonder any more.

 

The answer is seven.

 

Across the various threads I've asked you 7 times to support your claims with objective evidence.

 

Therefore, now that we all know how many times I've done this, I'm going to repeat my question to you.

 

 

 

If I keep on asking you for objective evidence, then I can't be interested in what goes on in your head, can I?

 

Can I ?

 

Please answer.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

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I know he has now left. But told fish that I would discuss this a bit on this thread. 

 

Fish stated a few times that he didn't believe in a young earth like the bible portrays. He mentioned this scripture to justify his stance. 

 

2 Peter 3:8

 

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

Let's set aside for a moment that 2 Peter is widely considered a forgery, possibly written because Jesus had not returned before the founders of the Christian movement had passed away. This chapter has allowed Christians to push that second coming off indefinitely. 

 

Like fish, I to used this apologetic to justify the earth's true age. Considering that God took billions of human years to make the earth just right for humans before he created us. 

 

That sounds great for awhile. And satisfied my questions for a short time. But the devil is in the details as they say. Under closer scrutiny this scripture can't apply to the creation. Even if it weren't from a forged epistle.

 

The first problem is in Genesis 1. 

 

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

It states in very specific terms that the evening and morning were the first day. 

 

If you can put yourself in the shoes of some ancient canaanite tribes person. This is what it is. One 24 hour day. And they did not even know that the sun provided the light for day. And the earth's shadow caused night. The sun wasn't created until the fourth day. Each time a day ends. It states the evening and the morning were the 2nd day, 3rd day, 4th day, etc. 

 

Sure you could say. Well this was obviously metaphorical. Like Jesus speaking of the eleventh hour. 

 

Well ok. But one thing that Jesus did when he spoke a parable was to explain the meaning afterward. You would think that if someone in ancient canaan is telling this story that they would clarify at some point. "Hey, I'm not talking about a day as we know it." But that's not the case. That doesn't come for over 1500 years apparently. 

 

But wait there's more!! 

 

After all this. As the story continues and one author or another, decided to add the geologies of Adams decendants. Whether it was the original author or a later author I don't know. I'm sure it's stated in someone's thesis, somewhere. 

 

 

In Gen 5 it goes through the generations of Adam to Noah, then tells the story of the flood. After the flood it goes through the generations of Noah to some guy named shem and continues to tell the story of the tower of babel, it goes on and tells more generations until it gets to Abraham and begins his story. After that we all know it gets more detailed.  

 

Some apologetic stances try to use the same scripture in 2nd peter and apply it to the genealogies to justify the true age of the Earth. So its hard enough to believe that people lived hundreds of years like Methuselah. 969 years!! That's a ridiculous amount in and of itself.  But under the apologetic math he would have lived millions of years and everyone else in the genealogies as well. Until we get back 4.5 billion years. That just makes it more ridiculous and doesn't fit. 

 

I really think whoever was writing the geneolgies got bored of making up names with short life spans so he took a short cut and had some really long lifespans to get to what he felt was old enough to be a believable amount of years to account for the creation of earth. I mean a couple thousand years to some ancient tribes men with absolutely no education or understanding like we do now. This would have been believable without 2nd Peter to justify it. 

 

Nah. The creation written in the Bible is a six 24hr day creation with a 24hr seventh day for God to rest and take a break. 

 

2nd Peter cannot apply here for multiple reasons. 

 

2nd Peter was probably one of the first Christian apologetic documents written to justify Jesus not fulfilling his promise to the apostles. And its obvious in the following verses. 

 

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

Ah..... I see now. The Lord is delaying his return. Not willing that any should perish. But that all should come to repentance. 

 

A saying I've heard in probably every church I've been too. 

 

Well anyway. Pretty simple. Once again. The Bible fails. And 2nd Peter is an early church forgery. A great read on the subject of biblical forgeries is Bart Ehrmans Forgery and Counter Forgery. 

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