My Pastor Sets Me Straight

[freshstart]

On 12/27/2021 at 3:22 AM, Myrkhoos said:

Interesting. I hate this life on earth, like I said elsewhere( that's why I do not even consider having children) and I hope if an afterlife exists, it would be an apocaliptic renewal akin to Abrahamic notions of the end of the world and ressurection. I personally find reincarnation kind of stupid and unnapealing ( which , in all honesty is what many Eastern religions also think, as the goal of their religions is to ESCAPE reincarnation)

      We'll see which one comes forth. :))

I'm certainly no expert, but I think Buddhism supports the idea of being at peace with what is, which is not quite the same as being sad, optimistic, or any other emotion. I would think it very uncomfortable to be hating life and I hope you find some joy in whatever way that is most meaningful to you.

[Joshpantera]

@TheRedneckProfessor

 

Post of the year award!!!!!!

[Myrkhoos]

2 hours ago, freshstart said:

I'm certainly no expert, but I think Buddhism supports the idea of being at peace with what is, which is not quite the same as being sad, optimistic, or any other emotion. I would think it very uncomfortable to be hating life and I hope you find some joy in whatever way that is most meaningful to you.

 

Thank you for the good thoughts, but what you said would take too much to even begin to answer so I'll leave it at that.

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, freshstart said:

Shouldn't any concept/religion/philosophy that demands I make critical life decisions based upon that said concept/religion/philosophy be able to stand up to scrutiny from "external" sources?

 

 

They know their religion can't pass logical muster so they raise faith and "mystery" to the level of sainthood, above common sense and try to make nonbelievers feel lesser for using their noggin.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

55 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

They know their religion can't pass logical muster so they raise faith and "mystery" to the level of sainthood, above common sense and try to make nonbelievers feel lesser for using their noggin.

 

My old pastor's wife tried to use the "wisdom of man" and "thoughts are not our thoughts" against me years ago.

 

Then why did he give us minds to think if we aren't intended to use it.

 

All hogwash.

[Hierophant]

23 hours ago, freshstart said:

I really hope Fish does this. I know if it were me, my pastors of the past would have told me that this was Satan at work and to steer clear of anyone who challenges the truth of the bible. That was the standard answer for any concept or any person that did not agree with the literal stories in the bible. It helped believers to avoid critical thinking. If I could rewind back to those days when I was questioning the truth of Christianity, I think I would have replied with a question: Shouldn't any concept/religion/philosophy that demands I make critical life decisions based upon that said concept/religion/philosophy be able to stand up to scrutiny from "external" sources?

We need only look to history or current events to see what happens when "authoritative sources" tell their followers to stay away from anything or anyone that challenges their beliefs.

 

I also hope Fish rereads some of the questions and even if he doesn't answer them here, I hope he makes an honest attempt to answer them for himself. It seems he hasn't completely closed his mind. But 50 years of indoctrination makes it difficult to open one's mind completely. Obviously he's open to what pastors have to say. Perhaps he'll eventually consider what other theologians (like Bart Ehrman) have to say.

 

Could not have said it better....the truth should never fear inquiry.

[sdelsolray]

Among other observations, Poster Fish153 expended more energy attempting to assert his beliefs, repeat his baldly asserted claims and pretend to maintain his perceived rhetorical positions than what simple intellectual honesty and basic curiosity would have required. 

[disillusioned]

Speaking of fish, I was watching Finding Nemo when I had a revelation:

 

Whether your toilet swirls clockwise or counter-clockwise doesn't matter. The point is, all drains lead to the ocean.

[Astreja]

14 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

Among other observations, Poster Fish153 expended more energy attempting to assert his beliefs, repeat his baldly asserted claims and pretend to maintain his perceived rhetorical positions than what simple intellectual honesty and basic curiosity would have required. 

 

And went running to his pastor for a second opinion, and then came back here to tell us the lies that his pastor had told about us.

 

His faith is on the ropes -- it's a matter of when, not if, it crashes and burns.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, Astreja said:

His faith is on the ropes -- it's a matter of when, not if, it crashes and burns.

This may be why he was so quick to tuck tail and run.  I had hoped he would stick around and become our next resident christian.  Hopefully we gave him a few things to think about.

[Astreja]

51 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This may be why he was so quick to tuck tail and run.  I had hoped he would stick around and become our next resident christian.  Hopefully we gave him a few things to think about.

 

Isn't it fun, having more power than Fish's god? 

[◊ Krowb ◊]

40 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This may be why he was so quick to tuck tail and run.  I had hoped he would stick around and become our next resident christian.  Hopefully we gave him a few things to think about.

 

speaking of our resident Christian.  Has anyone heard from Ed?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, Krowb said:

 

speaking of our resident Christian.  Has anyone heard from Ed?

I have not; but it's not unusual for him to disappear for months at a time.  

[sdelsolray]

7 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

And went running to his pastor for a second opinion, and then came back here to tell us the lies that his pastor had told about us.

 

His faith is on the ropes -- it's a matter of when, not if, it crashes and burns.

 

It's not surprising he spoke with his pastor.  That is common and expected Christian behavior.  It is also not surprising that his pastor bleated out a few well-worn strawmen about atheists, along with a heavy dose of Christian propaganda, and with a side salad of disdain, even though he never interacted with us.  That, unfortunately, is also to be often expected.

As to whether poster Fish153's religious faith "is on the ropes", I'm not so sure.  What I think we could agree upon is that any changes in his worldview, religious beliefs, etc. will need to be generated and maintained by Fish153 himself.

[Joshpantera]

3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This may be why he was so quick to tuck tail and run.  I had hoped he would stick around and become our next resident christian.  Hopefully we gave him a few things to think about.

 

I was wondering if he was aiming to be Ironhorse II or something like that. 

[walterpthefirst]

Well, call me cynical if you will, but my first response upon reading Fish's report of his 'discussion' with his Pastor was to think that it was a fake.

 

I suspect that this discussion never took place at all and that Fish concocted the whole thing to slip away without losing face.

 

If you take an overall look at his input and responses across all of the threads he was in, he never admitted that he was incorrect about anything.

 

Not just in biblical matters, but also whenever he tried to put forward anything scientific too.

 

But this refusal to admit error couldn't rescue him from the untenable positions he took.

 

The more he dug his heels in the worse it got.

 

 

So, what's a really slick way of getting out of this mess without losing face and scoring some parting shots on the way?

 

 

Fabricate a 'meeting' with your pastor and then drop the mike.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

2 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

Well, call me cynical if you will, but my first response upon reading Fish's report of his 'discussion' with his Pastor was to think that it was a fake.

 

I suspect that this discussion never took place at all and that Fish concocted the whole thing to slip away without losing face.

 

If you take an overall look at his input and responses across all of the threads he was in, he never admitted that he was incorrect about anything.

 

Not just in biblical matters, but also whenever he tried to put forward anything scientific too.

 

But this refusal to admit error couldn't rescue him from the untenable positions he took.

 

The more he dug his heels in the worse it got.

 

 

So, what's a really slick way of getting out of this mess without losing face and scoring some parting shots on the way?

 

 

Fabricate a 'meeting' with your pastor and then drop the mike.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

Could be.  Plausible.  I don't know.  I suggest none should care about what Poster Fish153 did or didn't do.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

20 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

If you take an overall look at his input and responses across all of the threads he was in, he never admitted that he was incorrect about anything.

Did he ever say in the OP that he was wrong and the pastor was right?  Or did he just convey the pastor's words as his excuse for r-u-n-n-o-f-t-i-n-g?  Still, obviously could be a complete work of face-saving fiction; but I don't recall him saying he was wrong.

[TABA]

Didn’t he apologize for his earlier claim that NONE of us had ever really believed?  
 

@TheRedneckProfessoryou were on point when you suggested he couldn’t decide if he was Calvinist or Arminian - a rather stark divide.   But his confusion is understandable, since the scriptures he trusts can’t decide on this either.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Probably.  I'm too lazy to go back and read the OP right now.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I mean, I know he apologized a number of times for saying we weren't real christians and we were going to hell.  But I never took those as actual admission-of-guilt-type apologies.  I took them more like, "I hate to be the bearer of bad news" type apologies.  Or the, "I'm sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying" type, which isn't even an apology and still leaves you being the one with the problem.  But none of it was ever an admission that he was wrong.

 

I reckon, though, we will never know what his true motivations were, since he wussed out on us.

[Moonobserver]

If Fish is still reading here, I would encourage him to suggest that his pastor come on and discuss things with us himself. It isn't that we just don't want to let Jesus command the boat; it's that we've noticed how many LEAKS there are in the boat.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I mean, I know he apologized a number of times for saying we weren't real christians and we were going to hell.  But I never took those as actual admission-of-guilt-type apologies.  I took them more like, "I hate to be the bearer of bad news" type apologies.  Or the, "I'm sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying" type, which isn't even an apology and still leaves you being the one with the problem.  But none of it was ever an admission that he was wrong.

 

I reckon, though, we will never know what his true motivations were, since he wussed out on us.

 

The way he worded it I took it that he felt like he was wrong. But that we were still going to suffer great shame because he now believes  in the end we will find out we were wrong and bow down to Jesus in shame. Instead of going to hell. His pastor is obviously of the once saved always saved variety. And has probably even seen some once devoted Christians, that he knew to be genuine, leave the fold. This is probably his pastors way of reconciling his own loved ones and friends in his mind. Now that he believes this scenario of end time events, he will still get to be with all his loved ones in heaven for eternity and some he will get to say "I told you so", to. 

 

In the very unlikely event that that happens. I'm gonna have to ask Jesus why he let his "word" get so fucked up. 

[midniterider]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:22 PM, walterpthefirst said:

Well, call me cynical if you will, but my first response upon reading Fish's report of his 'discussion' with his Pastor was to think that it was a fake.

 

I suspect that this discussion never took place at all and that Fish concocted the whole thing to slip away without losing face.

 

If you take an overall look at his input and responses across all of the threads he was in, he never admitted that he was incorrect about anything.

 

Not just in biblical matters, but also whenever he tried to put forward anything scientific too.

 

But this refusal to admit error couldn't rescue him from the untenable positions he took.

 

The more he dug his heels in the worse it got.

 

 

So, what's a really slick way of getting out of this mess without losing face and scoring some parting shots on the way?

 

 

Fabricate a 'meeting' with your pastor and then drop the mike.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like his pastor said quite a bit for just being pulled aside for a question. But no way to know if he just made that up or not. 

[midniterider]

4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Did he ever say in the OP that he was wrong and the pastor was right?  Or did he just convey the pastor's words as his excuse for r-u-n-n-o-f-t-i-n-g?  Still, obviously could be a complete work of face-saving fiction; but I don't recall him saying he was wrong.

 

When people aren't accepting your fear based bs there ain't much left to do except runoft.