Christian morals

[Sexton Blake]

I endlessly hear christians claiming that our morals are based on God, as though they would all be thieves, rapists, killers, etc without their religion.

 

Here is a book that should be compulsory reading for all christians:

 

https://archive.org/details/pdfy-9tx6xz9cSTQE6l6U

 

This is how people behave when they follow Jesus and God.

 

Please download it in the format you want and read it.

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

The Hadza tribe in Africa flies in the face of the Chridstian claim.  And that several non-believing countries are much more civilized/peaceful than "Christian" ones.

[Guest TheTruthWillSetYouFree]

On 12/27/2021 at 1:40 PM, Sexton Blake said:

I endlessly hear christians claiming that our morals are based on God, as though they would all be thieves, rapists, killers, etc without their religion.

The entire point of religion is to keep us from doing evil. God created mankind with Natural Law, which is a basic set of truths that allows us to intrinsically know the difference between good and bad. Then, God founded an infallible religion, Catholicism, which is meant to help us grow in our relationship with Him, and keep us from doing what is wrong. Obviously, mankind has an innate desire to do evil, and have things our way, but religion is there to correct us, so we can eventually join God in eternal happiness.

Natural Law is the moral code that is built-in. This is why even those who deny the existence of God have a basic sense of good and evil. Atheism recognizes the existence of this moral code, but is unable to explain why it exists in the first place. The Bible is the answer: it contains the rules set down by God. Those who follow His rules will receive rewards in Heaven, and those who disobey His laws will suffer.

I don't have to read the book to understand what you're trying to say about the behavior of historical Christians. The apparently evil behavior of Christianity in history, however, is completely irrelevant. Let me explain why with an example: if a country was overrun with murderers, it would say nothing about the laws of that country. If the law says that murderers are illegal, you shouldn't blame the law for the murderers' evils - you should blame the murderers for breaking the law. In the same way, you can't blame Christianity for the evils done in history by its believers. The rules of Christianity don't tell people to kill nonbelievers or commit adultery, but it happened anyway. Everyone sins, some people more than others. 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@TheTruthWillSetYouFree, proselytizing, witnessing, apologetics, and all other forms of religious salesmanship are to be kept confined to The Lion's Den forum.  We welcome your thoughts and insights; but we also expect you to abide by the rules of our community.  Please feel free to post, respond, and start your own threads in the appropriate area.  Otherwise your posts will be deleted.  Thank you for your cooperation. 

TRP

[Astreja]

2 hours ago, TheTruthWillSetYouFree said:

Natural Law is the moral code that is built-in. This is why even those who deny the existence of God have a basic sense of good and evil.

 

No, that "natural law" is empathy, which is an evolved trait found in all community-dependent animals.  Playing nice with others helps us survive.

[midniterider]

Should probably move this to the Lion's Den. 

 

I'd like Jesus to weigh in on this topic, TheTruthWillSetYouFree. Could we have a response from him? I mean a 2022 response, not some baloney from the bible. Jesus, what do you say? Please jump right in there and protect your Catholic follower. 

[Sexton Blake]

4 hours ago, TheTruthWillSetYouFree said:

The entire point of religion is to keep us from doing evil. God created mankind with Natural Law,

 

 

As that book I quoted tells us, those that will read it, that is, religion is directly responsible for much of the evil in history and even in society now. Go visit christian places like Ireland. Go visit any muslim country. Go visit Africa or India. Religions strongly controlling people is not setting them free.

 

The God who told us not to kill:

 

https://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

 

The problem is that when someone believes that God is on their side, like catholics, then they can do anything they want because they KNOW they are doing God's work, and all that stand against them are evil blasphemers.

 

Another point about gods is that they are just thousands of years old. Your god just 3,000 years old and he seems to have died 2,000 years ago as nothing from him since then. They are all recent creations. And they are all tiny things.

 

In a Universe 13,800,000,000 years old and containing trillions of trillions of stars and even more planets (as we now know), all any god did was to create a small area of land, usually flat, and usually orbited by the sun, and look after a small group of people.

 

Astronomers first discovered the Universe on 1st January, 1925. Hundreds, even thousands of years earlier, no religious believer told astronomers about it, because no religious book talks of a Universe, Only with a lot of wriggling can any even talk about other planets, notably the five naked eye planets we can see (from Earth) in our solar system.

 

And when we discovered the Universe, suddenly lying religious people claimed their god(s) had made it all, without wondering why a god who made so much bothers with the Earth, which is like one grain of sand in the whole Sahara desert.

 

If a believer rejects the ridiculous creation story in the bible, and many do, then what "evidence" that your god made anything?

 

BTW, sinning is going against the laws of the god you believe in. Do you eat bacon? As atheists do not believe in any god, we are all sin free.

 

As said, this site is for debate. You are not allowed to preach here.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

4 hours ago, TheTruthWillSetYouFree said:

 

 Then, God founded an infallible religion, Catholicism, which is meant to help us grow in our relationship with Him, and keep us from doing what is wrong.

 

This needs to be taken to the Lions Den, but off the top of my head, what you said above is a laugh.  The Catholic church down through the centuries has been a den of pompous, power hungry, murderous guys who killed those not agreeing with them, and many having sex with children.  The present Pope seems to be a decent guy, but my guess is the main power structure would like to see him gone.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

As long as the Catholics had the power (for centuries) they were corrupt.  Only rebels and outside forces finally tamed then down to what they are today, and began to corral the pedophiles.  They are a perfect example of "power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts".  

 

You need to do an indepth study of them from sources outside their ranks.  I did and lost respet for the overall organization.  I know there are some good people (mostly in their lower ranks) that haven't seen through the smoke and mirrors, but I decided that overall it is a sham.  I'm glad Francis is toning things down.  They certainly are not the same group that were early followers of Jesus, as described in the Bible.

 

 

[Sexton Blake]

Pope Benedict, when Cardinal Ratzinger, is on film about 1996 saying that child abuse (the rape of little boys by catholic priests) should be covered up.

 

There is said to be a building in the shadow of the vatican which is there to house child raping priests.

 

When law agencies in America were prosecuting child raping priests, they said trying to get anything out of the vatican was like dealing with the Mafia, with their code of silence.

 

The church are now pretending poverty to protect their assets:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-08/the-catholic-church-s-strategy-to-limit-payouts-to-abuse-victims

 

Perhaps our authentic christian believer friend (up the page) will tell us if child rape is part of God's Natural Law?

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, Sexton Blake said:

 

Pope Benedict, when Cardinal Ratzinger, is on film about 1996 saying that child abuse (the rape of little boys by catholic priests) should be covered up.

 

I have been retired for 17 years, but through my years of working as a psychiatric social worker, some of the sadest stories I heard were from guys who had been abused as children by priests.  But several said the abuse wasn't as bad as the cover ups, and some were even blamed for enticing the priest.  In my experience with these guys, and some study on the subject, I got the feeling the abuse was pretty prevelant in the church.   HA!  I can get on a soap box really quick about the catholic church.  The group who brought the new testament to the world over the dead bodies of thousands (or more) who didn't agree with them.  One of the reasons I lost faith in the inerrancy of the bible.

[midniterider]

The only difference between the two catholics I worked with and everyone else was the catholics said "fuck" instead of "Jesus Chrisssssst!"

 

And smushed ash on their foreheads on some Wednesday lol. 

[alreadyGone]

17 hours ago, TheTruthWillSetYouFree said:

The entire point of religion is to keep us from doing evil. ...

 

The Christian religion has existed for more than 2,000 years.

So how well is that working?

 

The Catholic church is shrinking in size, worldwide. 

The only places and cultures on earth where the Catholic Church is not shrinking are those in which there is a substantially lower level of education.

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

The entire point of religion is to keep us from doing evil.

 

 

Are you sure about this, TTWSYF ?

 

I thought that the entire point of the CHRISTian religion was for sinners to have a relationship with Jesus CHRIST.

 

Which is why it's called, CHRISTianity.

 

It's through having a spiritual relationship with Jesus CHRIST that sinners are both enabled to stop doing evil and are forgiven for the evil that they have done.

 

So, what do you have?

 

A religion about Jesus that's all about following rules?

 

Or a relationship with Jesus where you don't do evil because you love him?

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, midniterider said:

And smushed ash on their foreheads on some Wednesday lol. 

The strip club my cousin went to work for after she divorced me celebrates Ass Wednesday. 

[LogicalFallacy]

21 hours ago, TheTruthWillSetYouFree said:

The entire point of religion is to keep us from doing evil.

 

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Numbers 31:15-18

 

Shall we discuss the moral implications of this, and what "evil" means?

 

Apparently God doesn't like abortion, but is quite ok with wholesale mass slaughter of children... oh excuse me, of boys. The girls they were allowed to "keep alive for yourselves".

[webmdave]

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I hope ttssyf watches the video.  The idea that popes are are extensions of god is ridicilous.  Even if the god they believe in was real.  I believe the idea of a having a pope is based on the scripture that says Peter was given the keys to heaven.  It is a loooooong stretch from that to a pope.  And it took them 150 years to come up with the idea.  

[Joshpantera]

9 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

The Catholic church is shrinking in size

 

 

 

[midniterider]

Is this guy coming back to defend his religion? 

 

 

Or is he a hit and run poster?

 

 

 

 

 

[Astreja]

With "defenders" like this, no wonder the RCC is circling the drain!

 

Not surprised that he hasn't returned, although it would have been amusing to hear (and subsequently dismantle) TTWSYF's attempt to defend the indefensible.