Is scriptural human "spirit", our consciousness and perception of reality?

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

You are an atheist because you are blind and hide from The Truth. You can't see the test when eating from the failing part. This place was made to be believable to your dead view. "dead" because GOD said we would die if we ate from that tree.

Everything (including Logic) has to come from nature for a dead spirit because that is all they can see. They worship the creation and themselves instead of The CREATOR. They know "virtual" leads to the spiritual, so they excuse it by claiming someone will make the virtual, real some day. Hint: you can't explain away the virtual.

People using their animal side can't comprehend GOD being outside space and time. He didn't need Created.

They want to say the causality chain is the cause of Logic ...but don't consider that causality is virtual. Interference patterns can't display without something virtual happening. GOD is unobservable ...just like QM.

There are questions that atheists know not to ask because they know what happens if they think about them:

• Why is there something instead of nothing?
• How did the first living cell form that can regulate and duplicate?
• Why are there quantum fields ...or a time dimension?
• Why does math/logic function?
• Why is there physicality?
• Was the universe an accident?

You don't get the complexity and logic of the universe out of randomness. Consider if a leap in logic ...is a leap of Faith.

Belief without evidence is on purpose, THIS IS A TEST.

Why would GOD hand you the answer to His own Test?

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

Do you believe in math and logic? Do you ever question why those are available in this reality? You understand math is a virtual layer ...but somehow don't care that there is a designed fractal built into it (Mandelbrot Set).

Have you ever considered what our universe is expanding into? Is it the unobservable side of QM (Virtual)? If Virtual was beforehand, it means math and logic was before the Big Bang. It means there is a CREATOR to cause the Bang and to give it physicality with The Word.

Math/logic already tells us that the Virtual side handles Infinity. In QM there is something called "all possible paths", it is why non-local waves are in infinite positions (superposition). i don't see why Time, Causality, Light, Constants, and Quantum Information wouldn't be from the virtual side.

You are forced to deal with something more going on to this reality. With the association to a bifurcation diagram ...the Mandelbrot Set is connected to Logic. atheism is dead.

 

 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

Is scriptural human "spirit", our consciousness and perception of reality where we continually ask GOD to Make unobservable infinity (quantum effects/nonlocal/coherence), finite and physical?

sin is asking GOD to render your perception of reality without Him. You chose the path of death. You want to be on the Path of LIFE using JESUS’ Image to perceive.
 

Romans 8:16–17

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

People want to give the excuse that observation causes an interaction for a measurement …GOD still made something physical because we wanted something to be real in this reality.

Consciousness is our spirit asking GOD to Make the Virtually Infinite be finite and physical. Do you ever question why the Infinite and fractal Mandelbrot Set is baked into Math?

You know the core of physicality is virtual, but you don’t want to face what it implies …that we are in a Test.

You understand that math is virtual because you know you can't destroy a number, so why is it so difficult to see that the probabilities of the unobservable side of quantum mechanics is also? Do you think mass is multiplying while using “all possible paths”?

The infinite paths of causality required for interference patterns are virtual. Quantum effects don't happen unless they are non-local (Coherent) ...virtual. Virtual = Infinity. The Source of Logic and Causality is our Infinite GOD. All you do is come up with ridiculous excuses for physicality to remain a child of satan.
 

Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

Do you think we are going to magically find the cause of Logic some day? You know the obvious answer is a CREATOR, but you want to sin. Are you aware that if the speed of light was any different for the Fine-Structure Constant, that we wouldn't be here?

Do you wonder why we can't observe quantum effects while they are propagating? You guessed it ...they are virtual. You are not going to decohere a particle and then watch it tunnel.

The unobservable is unobservable ...you have to deal with the core of this place being Virtual. WE ARE IN A TEST.

Do you think something in superposition is in infinite locations? No you don't ...because you know the mass would multiply ...something virtual is happening.

You can't have a universe that happened by accident with the right Constants for life ...and have a Source of intelligent logic with it.

We have these great functions that man figured out ...but no one considers Why/How they can happen in the first place. Math is like an application that accesses the internet for it's logic.

When saying man makes math happen, you are claiming math works via observation. Have you witnessed infinity before? no. You now have a problem when it comes to explaining the infinite sum of the zeta function. How about an irrational with it's infinite digits?

Math asks Logic how to work. Man doesn't do anything but find hooks into Logic. Logic runs the show.

Math can't tell a lie ...neither can JESUS. Math/physics is accessing The Word of JESUS. JESUS is deciding what Math should be and when a wave should become physical. Logic is from GOD.

[florduh]

Do your astounding insights come from drugs or a head injury? Because there sure as hell no evidence to support them.

[TABA]

Welcome to Ex-Christian.net!

 

You should know that Christian proselytizing is allowed only in the Lions Den area.  This thread is now being moved there.

[walterpthefirst]

23 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

You are an atheist because you are blind and hide from The Truth. You can't see the test when eating from the failing part. This place was made to be believable to your dead view. "dead" because GOD said we would die if we ate from that tree.

Everything (including Logic) has to come from nature for a dead spirit because that is all they can see. They worship the creation and themselves instead of The CREATOR. They know "virtual" leads to the spiritual, so they excuse it by claiming someone will make the virtual, real some day. Hint: you can't explain away the virtual.

People using their animal side can't comprehend GOD being outside space and time. He didn't need Created.

They want to say the causality chain is the cause of Logic ...but don't consider that causality is virtual. Interference patterns can't display without something virtual happening. GOD is unobservable ...just like QM.

There are questions that atheists know not to ask because they know what happens if they think about them:

• Why is there something instead of nothing?
• How did the first living cell form that can regulate and duplicate?
• Why are there quantum fields ...or a time dimension?
• Why does math/logic function?
• Why is there physicality?
• Was the universe an accident?

You don't get the complexity and logic of the universe out of randomness. Consider if a leap in logic ...is a leap of Faith.

Belief without evidence is on purpose, THIS IS A TEST.

Why would GOD hand you the answer to His own Test?

 

By the logic of your own argument RKI, anything for which there is no evidence can be believed to be real, by faith.

 

Which would include pink unicorns or invisible teapots in space.

 

But perhaps you weren't specific enough?

 

So, would you care to rephrase your statement more precisely?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

16 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

By the logic of your own argument RKI, anything for which there is no evidence can be believed to be real, by faith.

 

Which would include pink unicorns or invisible teapots in space.

 

But perhaps you weren't specific enough?

 

So, would you care to rephrase your statement more precisely?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

You can have any excuse you want to fail this test. Bringing up unicorns means you didn't consider anything i said.

[walterpthefirst]

Have you ever considered what our universe is expanding into? Is it the unobservable side of QM (Virtual)? If Virtual was beforehand, it means math and logic was before the Big Bang. It means there is a CREATOR to cause the Bang and to give it physicality with The Word.

 

There is a problem with this paragraph, RKI.

 

Even if all that you state within it is accepted, it does not identify who the creator is.

 

Therefore, the creator could be the god of the Bible or it could be Allah or the god of the Sikhs.

 

Obviously, you can rectify this shortcoming by claiming that you know the identity of the creator by faith.

 

But in this particular post you don't mention that the answer to these questions must come through faith.

 

You cite math and logic, which seems to imply that the answers can be derived by math and logic.

 

But math and logic are not faith and they don't employ it either.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

1 minute ago, walterpthefirst said:

Have you ever considered what our universe is expanding into? Is it the unobservable side of QM (Virtual)? If Virtual was beforehand, it means math and logic was before the Big Bang. It means there is a CREATOR to cause the Bang and to give it physicality with The Word.

 

There is a problem with this paragraph, RKI.

 

Even if all that you state within it is accepted, it does not identify who the creator is.

 

Therefore, the creator could be the god of the Bible or it could be Allah or the god of the Sikhs.

 

Obviously, you can rectify this shortcoming by claiming that you know the identity of the creator by faith.

 

But in this particular post you don't mention that the answer to these questions must come through faith.

 

You cite math and logic, which seems to imply that the answers can be derived by math and logic.

 

But math and logic are not faith and they don't employ it either.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

Here is the thing ...you are now forced to choose a GOD ...choose wisely.

If atheists understood that the Mandelbrot Set is baked into Math and Logic ...they wouldn't be atheists anymore.

[walterpthefirst]

2 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

You can have any excuse you want to fail this test. Bringing up unicorns means you didn't consider anything i said.

 

Uh... no.

 

You set down the conditions of the test in the wording of your post.

 

I simply followed the logic of them, without using faith.

 

So, perhaps you can explain to me how logic (which is based upon evidence) and faith (which does not) can coexist in a test, when they are mutually exclusive conditions?

 

 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

Just now, walterpthefirst said:

 

Uh... no.

 

You set down the conditions of the test in the wording of your post.

 

I simply followed the logic of them, without using faith.

 

So, perhaps you can explain to me how logic (which is based upon evidence) and faith (which does not) can coexist in a test, when they are mutually exclusive conditions?

 

 

 

You claim Math is possible because the Universe made it so ...but you don't consider that Math goes beyond our three dimensions ...so how is Math from those dimensions when it handles much more that that ...Hilbert Space.

[walterpthefirst]

2 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

Here is the thing ...you are now forced to choose a GOD ...choose wisely.

If atheists understood that the Mandelbrot Set is baked into Math and Logic ...they wouldn't be atheists anymore.

 

No, that's not correct, RKI.

 

I qualified what I said, but you missed that.

 

Here is what I wrote.

 

Even if all that you state within it is accepted, it does not identify who the creator is.

 

So, identifying who the creator is, is conditional upon my accepting all that you stated.

 

Thus far I have declared if I have or haven't accepted all that you stated.

 

And so, I am not forced to choose a god.

 

If I had accepted all that you said, then I would be forced to choose.

 

Do you see where you tripped up?

[walterpthefirst]

4 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

You claim Math is possible because the Universe made it so ...but you don't consider that Math goes beyond our three dimensions ...so how is Math from those dimensions when it handles much more that that ...Hilbert Space.

 

No.  I didn't claim that, RKI.

 

Please do not misquote me or read into my words conclusions that aren't there.

 

Anyway, please tell us why Hilbert Spaces are called Hilbert Spaces.

 

This will be of some help to you in answering that question.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hilbert

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

You are saying Math and Logic are magic ...you have no idea why they function. You think this reality popped into existence by accident and somehow has a virtual layer to automatically do everything. You have stuck you head in the sand. Obviously there is a GOD.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

17 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

Bringing up unicorns means you didn't consider anything i said.

Extraordinary claims, unsupported by extraordinary evidence, can be summarily dismissed without even ordinary consideration.  I'm paraphrasing, of course.

[walterpthefirst]

Just now, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

You are saying Math and Logic are magic ...you have no idea why they function. You think this reality popped into existence by accident and somehow has a virtual layer to automatically do everything. You have stuck you head in the sand. Obviously there is a GOD.

 

Please stop misquoting me, RKI.

 

I said no such thing.

 

Have you noticed how I am quoting you exactly and not saying anything that you haven't said?

 

That I'm not drawing my own conclusions about you and then writing them down as truth?

 

What you are doing is bearing false witness against me.

 

Please stop doing that. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Dude, seriously, look up the definition of a strawman.  You keep using the word logic but have yet to actually use any logic at all, other than this seemingly favorite logical fallacy of yours.

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

Explain why an infinite fractal is baked into math. Not just any fractal but one that has a crazy shape that requires a Designer. The Mandelbrot Set has a bifurcation diagram in it ...bifurcation is about cyclical events ...it's LOGIC.

This isn't religious:
 

 

[pantheory]

4 hours ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

You are an atheist because you are blind and hide from The Truth. You can't see the test when eating from the failing part. This place was made to be believable to your dead view. "dead" because GOD said we would die if we ate from that tree.

Everything (including Logic) has to come from nature for a dead spirit because that is all they can see. They worship the creation and themselves instead of The CREATOR. They know "virtual" leads to the spiritual, so they excuse it by claiming someone will make the virtual, real some day. Hint: you can't explain away the virtual.

People using their animal side can't comprehend GOD being outside space and time. He didn't need Created.

They want to say the causality chain is the cause of Logic ...but don't consider that causality is virtual. Interference patterns can't display without something virtual happening. GOD is unobservable ...just like QM.

There are questions that atheists know not to ask because they know what happens if they think about them:

• Why is there something instead of nothing?
• How did the first living cell form that can regulate and duplicate?
• Why are there quantum fields ...or a time dimension?
• Why does math/logic function?
• Why is there physicality?
• Was the universe an accident?

You don't get the complexity and logic of the universe out of randomness. Consider if a leap in logic ...is a leap of Faith.

Belief without evidence is on purpose, THIS IS A TEST.

Why would GOD hand you the answer to His own Test?

 

Hi Reborn-Kingdom,

 

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that your motives are good and that you are trying to help us, in your opinion.

 

I am an atheist and my motives are also good in my explanation to you, in that you can realize that some atheists can have answers to your questions.

 

 Why is there something instead of nothing?

 

The answer to this question is simple. Nothing is not a possible state of reality.

How did the first living cell form that can regulate and duplicate?

 

Science has pretty good ideas how the first living cells regulate and duplicate. But the real question is how did non-living matter became life. There are a number of science theories on this subject but there is no consensus theory in science -- so this is still a work in progress.
   

Why are there quantum fields ...or a time dimension?

 

This is also an easy one. Quantum fields are first mathematical models of reality, some may have a real world analog. Such ideas of these fields were mostly made to make better predictions -- and some help do so. As to time, it is obvious that without time there would be no changes. Without changes. everything would always be the same -- reality as we know it would not exist. Time is a quintessential dimension of reality.

    Why does math/logic function?

 

Logic is a function of intelligence, whether via animal, man, math, or computer. Here is how the dictionary defines it:  -- "a system or set of principles underlying the arrangements of elements in a brain, computer, or electronic device so as to perform a specified task.(s)"
   

Why is there physicality?

 

The physical nature of reality is explained by physics. There is substance and energy. Energy is a time reaction to substance, and substance is equivalent to something which we perceive as physical.

Was the universe an accident?

 

The universe did not come from nothing (logic). It has no purpose. Here is the definition of the word accident:  "an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause." The word "happen" implies that something could have occurred in a different way, which would not apply to the universe based upon theory that I ascribe to.

 

OK Reborn-Kingdom, here are my atheist answers to all of your questions. Of course some of my answers are debatable in science, but there are correct scientific answers to all of your questions, whether all are know now or not. Science will always be a work in progress. The more we know the more detail we will find requiring explanation.

 

 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

3 minutes ago, pantheory said:

 

Hi Reborn-Kingdom,

 

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that your motives are good and that you are trying to help us, in your opinion.

 

I am an atheist and my motives are also good in my explanation to you, in that you can realize that some atheists can have answers to your questions.

 

    Why is there something instead of nothing?

The answer to this question is simple. Nothing is not a possible state of reality.

How did the first living cell form that can regulate and duplicate?

 

Science has pretty good ideas how the first living cells regulate and duplicate. But the real question is how did non-living matter become life. There are a number of science theories on this but there is no consensus theory in science -- so this is still a work in progress.
   

Why are there quantum fields ...or a time dimension?

 

This is also an easy one. Quantum fields are first mathematical models, some may have a real world analog. Such idea of these fields were mostly made to make better predictions -- and some help. As to time, it is obvious that without it there would be no changes. Without change. everything would always look the same -- reality as we know it would not exist. Time is a quintessential dimension of reality. 

    Why does math/logic function?

 

Logic is a function of intelligence, whether via animal, man, math, or computer. Here is how the dictionary defines it:  -- "a system or set of principles underlying the arrangements of elements in a computer or electronic device so as to perform a specified task."
   

Why is there physicality?

 

The physical nature of reality is explained by physics. There is substance and energy. Energy is a time reaction to substance, and substance is equivalent to something which we perceive as physical.

Was the universe an accident?

 

The universe did not come from nothing (logic). It has no purpose. Here is the definition of the word accident:  "an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause." The word "happen" implies that something could have occurred in a different way, which would not apply to the universe based upon theory that I ascribe to.

 

OK Reborn-Kingdom, here are my atheist answers to all of your questions. Of course some of my answers are debatable in science, but there are correct scientific answers to all of your questions, whether all are know now or not. Science will always be a work in progress. The more we know the more detail we will find requiring explanation.

 

 

Keep reading the thread.

[pantheory]

1 hour ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

Keep reading the thread.

 

I read your whole posting. As you know I think the Bible is just a bunch of made-up stories and a god of any kind is just a myth like Greek Mythology. The most laughable parts of the Bible are Geneses, Revelations, and Noah's arc IMO. But if you want me to read something else of yours, identify it OK?

 

best regards

[pantheory]

1 hour ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

Explain why an infinite fractal is baked into math. Not just any fractal but one that has a crazy shape that requires a Designer. The Mandelbrot Set has a bifurcation diagram in it ...bifurcation is about cyclical events ...it's LOGIC.

This isn't religious:
 

 

 

The Math of physics is no part of reality; it is only an analog of it. It is an invention by man or other intelligence to make predictions or simulate reality. There are almost always exceptions to the math when it relates to physics. I'm sure this question could puzzle some, but not if valid logic is put into play IMHO.

[Astreja]

4 hours ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

Belief without evidence is on purpose, THIS IS A TEST.

 

I don't remember enrolling for such a fucking stupid test.  (tears test paper in half and runs it through shredder)

[walterpthefirst]

Explain why an infinite fractal is baked into math. Not just any fractal but one that has a crazy shape that requires a Designer. The Mandelbrot Set has a bifurcation diagram in it ...bifurcation is about cyclical events ...it's LOGIC.

This isn't religious:

 

 

 

If this isn't religious, then we can't use faith to see what you mean here.

 

(You set the terms and conditions under which we are to understand your words, remember?)

 

If a designer is required, then (by the terms you set down) we cannot know the identity of the designer... by faith.

 

So, using logic alone, how are we meant to know the identity of the designer?

 

Please explain.